Not sure I understand this. Are you saying you didn't inhale at subohms?
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Not sure I understand this. Are you saying you didn't inhale at subohms?
I'm saying there are those that don't .......... perhaps because they can't because of their build quality, but still say they like sub ohm vaping. Anyone that has played with sub ohm has probably built a blowtorch or two while learning about proper air flow for sub ohm vaping.
In the end, I wrap my coils to satisfy me, they don't need to satisfy anyone else.
Specifically 5/6 wraps of #30 around 3 strands of 1mm silica cord with air from the bottom intead of the side.
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The best performance, taste and vapour, i ever got was a 3/4 wrap on SS cable with my Natural/RSST,i CANNOT go back too VV/VW mods.
Once you go meck,you are hooked.
Once you go meck,you are hooked.
Nope. I did a little research before I started, and never had that problem. The more conservative among us have been griping about the modders and builders from the start, But when the stuff they have been working on for the last year go mainstream then it's considered normal. Removable battery mods, big battery mods, low resistance attys tanks, all normal now.
To answer the OPs question: Is sub ohm relevant? YES!
this thread has turned into a battle, I was just asking if I could get the same advantages of sub ohm waters by using microcoils and vw device, From what I'm reading I think I can go ankle deep but not more deeper... right?
I have to call shens on this, I don't think it's possible to get a decent subohm cloud if you aren't inhaling, and pretty hard too.
You can do very well at an honest 15w. It's about comparable to a .8-.9 ohm coil on a mech. The trick is to build the atomizer like a subohm atomizer, but use a packed/microcoil.
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If anyone claims people can't or don't inhale subohm vapor, I strongly question whether they know what they are talking about. It's pretty much required. This isn't even limited to subohm, in fact. Any high vapor production vaping relies on big air movement.
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I think one of the problems with sub-ohm vaping is the name. It has a special name, so people assume that there's something different or special about it. They seem to think that it's going to be an "upgrade" to their vaping experience. That it's "the next step up". Vaping at 0.5 ohms is no different from vaping at 1.5 or 2.5 ohms. It's just like turning the power on a VV or VW device up. If your device doesn't have adjustable voltage or power and you want a hotter coil, you lower the coil resistance until you find the right power level for you. Nothing special is going to happen when you drop below 1 ohm. The result is exactly the same as what you'd get if you just turned up the voltage. If turning up the voltage doesn't make your juice taste better, reducing the coil resistance won't either.
Oh man ... while you're right that specific resistance thresholds aren't inherently meaningful, the way a typical .5 ohm coil works is WAY different from a typical 1.5 or 2.5 ohm coil pumping 30 watts through. The concept of subohm encompasses an entire atomizer building theory; perhaps it should be known as very high wattage vaping.
i agree... about the difference.
i don't understand all about the electronics of it, and one needn't, as long as they observe some strict criteria to include good (and safe) results.
There are scientific factors in play including wire diameter, wick diameter, wicking, air flow, and the ratio's of power to resistance.
In other words, upping your VV/VW on a so called "conventional" resistance coil i.e. 1.5 or 2.+ Ohms coil, to max wattage/voltage, will not be the same vape as ie. a .8 Ohms with 28g wire at 3.7 to 4.1v... not sure what its called but I'd say the "efficiency" of the set up in the former example will not be as optimal... in terms of heat and flavor.
If that were not true, mechanicals wouldn't be as desirable, which is the case for most sub ohms vapers...
i like to call it super low resistances vs high wattage. (SLR,LR,SR,HR)
Well with stacked coils, we actually can get a similar vape with a thinner wire, so I'm starting to think that classifying by resistance is growing less and less useful (and growing more counterproductive insomuch as it provides an easy target for some). I know we have that watts don't matter thread, but I'm starting to come back around to emphasizing watts, not as a independent single variable to compare between setups, but rather to be, as a derived value, more representative of the whole of the vaping "potential" of a given setup.
This would change the default view away from examining variables one by one, ohms, volts, etc. toward a base understanding vaping as a system of many interrelated variables. It would in turn encourage optimization rather than envelope distortion, for performance enhancement.
This would change the default view away from examining variables one by one, ohms, volts, etc. toward a base understanding vaping as a system of many interrelated variables. It would in turn encourage optimization rather than envelope distortion, for performance enhancement.
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sorry abou that vapero, but it seems you have unexpectedly waded into a unique controversy here, that has to do with some growing pains within this here this vaping realm.
in answer to your question, i think you can get SOME of the advantages of sub ohm by using micro's...
if you've heard about or tried ie. HH357, Aero, or Vapage new spec LR atomizers, as far as I know this could be the genesis of "micro" which as far as i can see is typified by multiple wraps of wire, touching and packed together around a wick.
The atomizers were called "hybrid" and that was a bridgeless, combo of 510 and 306 atomizers, which touts improved flavor... (true)
I think the improvement comes from the fact that more surface area of the coil means more juice is being directly affected by the heat.
That said, there are ranges of efficiency that have to do with all that good stuff: wick diameter, wicking, air flow, power to resistance etc.
For VV/VW of course you would aim at getting a maximum amount of coil wraps, and to get as close to the lowest resistance allowable by your VW...
If it's 1 ohms, then you have the opportunity to use thicker gauge wire (30, 28, 26)...
btw, i'd limit the number of wraps between a range of say 6 to 10 ... maybe a couple more. ymmv there.
Wick diameter seems to be open to experimenting at this point, as well as wick materials...
its a great idea
Discussing watts and/or ohms independently only works when you hold wire gauge constant. That tends to work in the world of off-the-shelf, disposable atomizers because they are all pretty much designed to work with low power devices like eGos and all use high gauge (thin) wire.
That falls apart in the RBA world where you may have one person wraping coils with 34 awg wire and another using 26 awg wire. Comparing either the wattage or the resistance of these two is completely meaningless. The power requirements (the amount of power needed to reach a specified temperature) of the two wires sizes is completely different. 15 watts on a 34 awg coil will be like vaping with a nuclear reactor... !5 watts applied to the 26 awg coil will be weak at best.
That falls apart in the RBA world where you may have one person wraping coils with 34 awg wire and another using 26 awg wire. Comparing either the wattage or the resistance of these two is completely meaningless. The power requirements (the amount of power needed to reach a specified temperature) of the two wires sizes is completely different. 15 watts on a 34 awg coil will be like vaping with a nuclear reactor... !5 watts applied to the 26 awg coil will be weak at best.
Very good points Baditude.
Totally agree
. And the bickering I see here and in other threads on this subject is not conducive to education for anyone. I believe this is the worst I've seen yet. I hope that will change.
Thanks for bringing us back to the point vapero! I apologize for my part in the OT battle
I vape a RBA with the coil between 0.5 and 0.7 ohms, so around about 20 watts, on a mechanical. Love it, but I have not tried a micro coil yet. I will be trying them out soon because of what I have seen and read. Don't know if I will find the same satisfaction I get from my current setup, but I have high hopes. In any case, the ability to be able to use a regulated mod is the important thing safety wise. I may still go with mech mods because I have come to like them and am comfortable with the safety issues. Best of luck with it!
Pbusardo has an excellent rant about this subject, and he makes a great point: when we were smokers, how many times did we look at our cigarettes and say to ourselves, "if i could just find a way to make this thing produce more smoke..."
If we aren't careful, we will soon be reading more and more stories in the news about people getting injured/worse because they didn't know what they were doing while vaping on a mech with a sub ohm coil, causing their mod to explode in their face. We don't need the negative press. Please be safe and smart with your builds, do the math, and make sure you know what you are doing before attempting to dive into the sub ohm pool. Those Phillipino Clouds are awesome, but...why? He calls it " sport vaping", and as he says, it is going to bite us on the ... if we aren't careful. Vaping is great and lots of fun. I am obsessed with it. But it doesn't need to be dangerous.
So... Rant completed. Be careful out there.
If we aren't careful, we will soon be reading more and more stories in the news about people getting injured/worse because they didn't know what they were doing while vaping on a mech with a sub ohm coil, causing their mod to explode in their face. We don't need the negative press. Please be safe and smart with your builds, do the math, and make sure you know what you are doing before attempting to dive into the sub ohm pool. Those Phillipino Clouds are awesome, but...why? He calls it " sport vaping", and as he says, it is going to bite us on the ... if we aren't careful. Vaping is great and lots of fun. I am obsessed with it. But it doesn't need to be dangerous.
So... Rant completed. Be careful out there.
I would like to know whether a sub-ohm outfit can do anything better than an lr atty can? Am I just old fashioned or is this all about fashion?
If I vape on an atomiser that is 1.8 ohms and I use a battery at 4.2 volts surely I can achieve what the sub-ohmers are after? Especially if I use a high VG liquid?
I'm confused, I suppose.
If I vape on an atomiser that is 1.8 ohms and I use a battery at 4.2 volts surely I can achieve what the sub-ohmers are after? Especially if I use a high VG liquid?
I'm confused, I suppose.
Although I've not tried, or even researched them much yet, I have a hunch micro coils will eventually become more mainstream than sub ohm, just because of the facts that they are theoretically safer, can be used on a safer regulated mod, and are less demanding on batteries.
It wasn't that long ago that the "advanced vapors" were stacking batteries in their mechanicals to acheive higher voltage, and for the most part that practice has gone by the wayside via regulated mods. I predict the same for sub ohm vaping.
PBusardo's rant will hopefully bring some cloud chasers back down to earth. Let's not lose track of why we took up vaping. We hopefully got into this as a safer alternative from smoking to get the nicotine that we are addicted to. The cloud chasing is just a showboat experience for some people who have a need for gratification from others, not necessarily from their vape.
It wasn't that long ago that the "advanced vapors" were stacking batteries in their mechanicals to acheive higher voltage, and for the most part that practice has gone by the wayside via regulated mods. I predict the same for sub ohm vaping.
PBusardo's rant will hopefully bring some cloud chasers back down to earth. Let's not lose track of why we took up vaping. We hopefully got into this as a safer alternative from smoking to get the nicotine that we are addicted to. The cloud chasing is just a showboat experience for some people who have a need for gratification from others, not necessarily from their vape.
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