sub-ohm is it really relevant???

[minimalsaint]

I did my first micro build last night and it is pretty damn close to sub ohm in terms of vapor and flavor, only without the heat or battery drain.
Fast forward 6 months and there will be countless pissing matches about who can get the least vapor with the most flavor. Narrowed air holes opposite coils, 20 wraps of 32g...... Who knows. Some people just like to argue.

 

[dr g]

Although I've not tried, or even researched them much yet, I have a hunch micro coils will eventually become more mainstream than sub ohm, just because of the facts that they are theoretically safer, can be used on a safer regulated mod, and are less demanding on batteries.

I can't stress this enough, a regulated mod isn't any less demanding on batteries for the same wattage, in fact it's more demanding.

It wasn't that long ago that the "advanced vapors" were stacking batteries in their mechanicals to acheive higher voltage, and for the most part that practice has gone by the wayside via regulated mods. I predict the same for sub ohm vaping.

I'm not so sure. I'm getting some great results with high voltage regulated as far as vapor volume. I've come to the conclusion that power is power, pretty much. But again I am being no kinder to my batteries than a subohm setup.

PBusardo's rant will hopefully bring some cloud chasers back down to earth. Let's not lose track of why we took up vaping. We hopefully got into this as a safer alternative from smoking to get the nicotine that we are addicted to. The cloud chasing is just a showboat experience for some people who have a need for gratification from others, not necessarily from their vape.

Not everyone got into vaping for the same reason, or from the same form of nicotine intake.

 

[Jimi D.]

A micro coil is not a new thing. Have you ever looked at a coil in a cartomizer ? It does not compare to sub ohm vaping. Yes the big clouds look cool, but the flavor, and nic hit are awesome ! I just don't understand why ppl have to knock something they haven't even tried ????

If anyone says that sub ohm vaping is harsh. Lower the nic, and you'll be amazed.

 

[e-pipeman]

A micro coil is not a new thing. Have you ever looked at a coil in a cartomizer ? It does not compare to sub ohm vaping. Yes the big clouds look cool, but the flavor, and nic hit are awesome ! I just don't understand why ppl have to knock something they haven't even tried ????

If anyone says that sub ohm vaping is harsh. Lower the nic, and you'll be amazed.

Dear Jimi,

I've just seen your avatar. Is sub-ohm vaping about producing clouds like a fire extinguisher? Why is it different to using a low resistance atomiser at a higher voltage?

Just curious.

 

[jasl90]

The only thing that makes a micro-coil a micro-coil is the small coil diameter and very close (unusually touching) coils. There's nothing that says a micro-coil can't be sub-ohm.

 

[Jimi D.]

Dear Jimi,

I've just seen your avatar. Is sub-ohm vaping about producing clouds like a fire extinguisher? Why is it different to using a low resistance atomiser at a higher voltage?

Just curious.

Sub ohm vaping heats up faster. Especially if I use fat ribbon wire. I don't get any burnt taste like I used to compared to 8.4 volts. High resistance coils need to be thin wire, which tends to burn the juice.

 

[dr g]

Dear Jimi,

I've just seen your avatar. Is sub-ohm vaping about producing clouds like a fire extinguisher? Why is it different to using a low resistance atomiser at a higher voltage?

Just curious.

Did you mean high-resistance atomiser at a higher voltage?

The only thing that makes a micro-coil a micro-coil is the small coil diameter and very close (unusually touching) coils. There's nothing that says a micro-coil can't be sub-ohm.

I think people are finding out, or should be finding out, that the small coil diameter is not really a good idea. In any case a stacked coil setup seems to behave thermally like a spaced-coil setup of a larger wire diameter.

 

[Ryedan]

The only thing that makes a micro-coil a micro-coil is the small coil diameter and very close (unusually touching) coils. There's nothing that says a micro-coil can't be sub-ohm.

Absolutely correct and people do this. But you can also apparently get great performance from them in ohm+ setups. I'm thinking putting the two together is going to be a very interesting experiment, but that's just me

 

[ukeman]

Dear Jimi,

I've just seen your avatar. Is sub-ohm vaping about producing clouds like a fire extinguisher? Why is it different to using a low resistance atomiser at a higher voltage?
Just curious.

Jasl90 answered this but i guess you have to know what to look for...
1.your LR (1.5 to 2.0 Ohms) uses very thin wire,... will produce harsh burnt flavor, super hot.
2.Thicker wire can handle that extra power with less of that effect
and the vape will NOT be harsh/hot..... 3. RBA's are designed to wick appropriately, to keep up with the need.

 

[ukeman]

Did you mean high-resistance atomiser at a higher voltage?



I think people are finding out, or should be finding out, that the small coil diameter is not really a good idea. In any case a stacked coil setup seems to behave thermally like a spaced-coil setup of a larger wire diameter.

do you mean touching coils when you say stacked?

check out the Micro Coils for Reo's.... RM2 threads... you'll find that what started out (by SuperXdrifter) as conventional resistance LR/SR 1.5 to 2.5 ohms, has shifted to a lower norm; slightly larger diameter coil (we're talking fractions of a mm)... still very small (Reomizer2 is a small b/f dripper)

i like them at .6 to .8 Ohms; 7 or 8 wraps; 27g, 28g nichrome... 1.8mm ID... very nice because you get faster response and everything else...
Those experts there (a lot better than me, including pdibs) will tell you its the best; imy opinion is that its the best I've gotten out of a Reo, but so far a Genesis or larger RDA gives me better flavor...i have a hunch they mean because its easier to set up.

 

[jasl90]

I think people are finding out, or should be finding out, that the small coil diameter is not really a good idea. In any case a stacked coil setup seems to behave thermally like a spaced-coil setup of a larger wire diameter.

Small coil diameters simply demand that you have a wicking material can keep up... Or to restate, a more practical manner... Your coil diameter and length are limited by the wicks ability to supply juice to the entire coil.

When you say "stacked coils" are you referring to dual coils or parallel (untwisted) wires in the same coil? Not that really matters. In both cases you're halving the resistance of two thin wires to get the same resistance & thermal mass of a single, thicker wire.

In either case, the two ideas aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[jasl90]

do you mean touching coils when you say stacked?

check out the Micro Coils for Reo's.... RM2 threads... you'll find that what started out (by SuperXdrifter) as conventional resistance LR/SR 1.5 to 2.5 ohms, has shifted to a lower norm; slightly larger diameter coil (we're talking fractions of a mm)... still very small (Reomizer2 is a small b/f dripper)

i like them at .6 to .8 Ohms; 7 or 8 wraps; 27g, 28g nichrome... 1.8mm ID... very nice because you get faster response and everything else...
Those experts there (a lot better than me, including pdibs) will tell you its the best; imy opinion is that its the best I've gotten out of a Reo, but so far a Genesis or larger RDA gives me better flavor...i have a hunch they mean because its easier to set up.

Actually, as far as I know, I've got the earliest pic of touching coils on an RBA on the forum... Way before X-Drifter brought the over to the Reo forum...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=377820

 

[ukeman]

Although I've not tried, or even researched them much yet, I have a hunch micro coils will eventually become more mainstream than sub ohm, just because of the facts that they are theoretically safer, can be used on a safer regulated mod, and are less demanding on batteries.

It wasn't that long ago that the "advanced vapors" were stacking batteries in their mechanicals to acheive higher voltage, and for the most part that practice has gone by the wayside via regulated mods. I predict the same for sub ohm vaping.

PBusardo's rant will hopefully bring some cloud chasers back down to earth. Let's not lose track of why we took up vaping. We hopefully got into this as a safer alternative from smoking to get the nicotine that we are addicted to. The cloud chasing is just a showboat experience for some people who have a need for gratification from others, not necessarily from their vape.

the practice of stacking batts to get double voltage didn't fly because the atomizers weren't geared for it... You can't lump those 510's or carto's with Genesis or RDA tanks or dripper RDAs.
As already discussed; wicking, wire diameter, air flow etc along with proper gear, factors in.

"Cloud chasers" for the most part aren't even ECF members per se, but imo they aren't going to listen to Busardo... they are a sub culture (on facebook) and going strong. I liken it to the skateboarding crowd... doing tricks and often a lot the worse for wear.

Your prediction flies in the face of reality imo.... sub ohms is here to stay.
Its a choice just like your favorite vape whatever it may be.
I use any number of different methods including sub ohm, micro, micro sub ohm, and LR and SR.
I've got both types of devices - mechs and VW (dna20) ... they all have proven their value, and safety.

I'm grateful for the evolution... if i had to choose only one, it would be sub ohms and RBA's, but hell this is America.

 

[dr g]

I'm using stacked coils the way most people use "micro coils," but I like a more encompassing term since the coils I've been building are not micro diameter. I'm doing that to get more wire mass, luckily I can push enough voltage through to still get full wattage (see left). Returns results comparable to subohm coils with a 3+ ohm coil, at a given wattage. I also use silica so I need more wick mass.

Your prediction flies in the face of reality imo.... sub ohms is here to stay.
Its a choice just like your favorite vape whatever it may be.
I use any number of different methods including sub ohm, micro, micro sub ohm, and LR and SR.
I've got both types of devices - mechs and VW (dna20) ... they all have proven their value, and safety.

I don't know, in theory we should be able to achieve everything that is achievable with subohm with regulated devices of the appropriate specifications. Once that happens, we may see subohm become rarer and rarer.

 

[ukeman]

Actually, as far as I know, I've got the earliest pic of touching coils on an RBA on the forum... Way before X-Drifter brought the over to the Reo forum...
Micro-genesis dripping rba...

love your micro gen Jas!

but like i said before, these imo came from "hybrid" 510/306 attys a la HH357....

 

[WattWick]

I'm fairly annoyed by those mindlessly bashing sub-ohm vaping. "Lemmings"

Jumping on any bandwagon, be it sub-ohm or anti-sub-ohm is what seems mindless to me.

I experimented my way through a whole lot of gear until I ended up with RBAs just below the 1 ohm mark. Not to be a cool guy blowing clouds on youtube. But to keep me off the ciggies for good. It's what worked the best for me. I didn't want to make it this complicated. I wanted something simple. But simple setups didn't do it for me in the long run.

Why am I (and others like me) demoted to pariah status and can freely be ridiculed while the crowd cheer? Is it because I do not believe in this magical number written in stone: "1 ohm shall be the whole of the law"? ... and instead see batteries for what they are capable of and stay well within their operational limits? Is it because some other people who also use sub-ohm see it as a competitive sport to blow the biggest cloud?

I don't know... so I choose to call it bigotry.

 

[ukeman]

Small coil diameters simply demand that you have a wicking material can keep up... Or to restate, a more practical manner... Your coil diameter and length are limited by the wicks ability to supply juice to the entire coil.

When you say "stacked coils" are you referring to dual coils or parallel (untwisted) wires in the same coil? Not that really matters. In both cases you're halving the resistance of two thin wires to get the same resistance & thermal mass of a single, thicker wire.

In either case, the two ideas aren't mutually exclusive.

oh yeah wicks for micros ( in Reo RM2's), we're using these tiny cotton puffs... great flavor and got to be juiced.

 

[jasl90]

love your micro gen Jas!

but like i said before, these imo came from "hybrid" 510/306 attys a la HH357....

No qualms with that... I stole the idea from Cisco when I started ripping open my Cisco spec 306's to see why they worked so damn well.

Notice that I qualified it by saying "on an RBA"...

 

[Ryedan]

I'm fairly annoyed by those mindlessly bashing sub-ohm vaping. "Lemmings"

Jumping on any bandwagon, be it sub-ohm or anti-sub-ohm is what seems mindless to me.

I experimented my way through a whole lot of gear until I ended up with RBAs just below the 1 ohm mark. Not to be a cool guy blowing clouds on youtube. But to keep me off the ciggies for good. It's what worked the best for me. I didn't want to make it this complicated. I wanted something simple. But simple setups didn't do it for me in the long run.

Why am I (and others like me) demoted to pariah status and can freely be ridiculed while the crowd cheer? Is it because I do not believe in this magical number written in stone: "1 ohm shall be the whole of the law"? ... and instead see batteries for what they are capable of and stay well within their operational limits? Is it because some other people who also use sub-ohm see it as a competitive sport to blow the biggest cloud?

I don't know... so I choose to call it bigotry.

 

[ukeman]

I'm using stacked coils the way most people use "micro coils," but I like a more encompassing term since the coils I've been building are not micro diameter. I'm doing that to get more wire mass, luckily I can push enough voltage through to still get full wattage (see left). Returns results comparable to subohm coils with a 3+ ohm coil, at a given wattage. I also use silica so I need more wick mass.



I don't know, in theory we should be able to achieve everything that is achievable with subohm with regulated devices of the appropriate specifications. Once that happens, we may see subohm become rarer and rarer.

wow; 20 watts..and HR, that's rare.

yeah, the small diameter may be for smaller atomizers ... i'm waffling on what diameters to use on a micro in a larger RDA tank ie. with lots of room, and high pos/neg posts...
or even a Genesis wick/coil set up...

i guess some of your explanations have been going over some heads (like mine)....
please explain in laymans terms if possible. Why should sub ohms and mechanicals not be here to stay? imo they are the cats meow