sub-ohm tank has less flavor?

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David Wolf

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No problem

A lot of people don't understand that resistance only matters when using unregulated devices. 50W is 50W coming from a 0.5 ohm 22awg coil or a 1 ohm quad parallel 28 awg. The difference is how much area that heat is being produced over. (The quad parallel has more surface area)
Not my area of expertise but I wonder how spaced coils vs Coils in contact factors in to flavor. It would seem that you might get a little more surface area contact to the wick with spaced coils compared to contact coil of the same resistance and gauge. Also there is some current (don't know how much) traveling coil to coil if they make contact.
 
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David Wolf

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You sir, are the first person I've ever met that shares my sentiments on this.
I think most people are seriously hung up on the idea of sub ohm vaping.

Two things I might add,

Ramp up time on thinner wire is faster
and
It seems like higher resistance coils are more efficient for me.
Even though you are running at higher voltages, your amperage draw will be significantly less and yield a longer run time.

This only really gives me an hour or two longer from my batteries, but over the course of the next 10 years, I imagine I will have gone through many less batteries than those who insist on running super sub ohm.
If you run at the same wattage battery time should be pretty much the same.
 

Boden

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Not my area of expertise but I wonder how spaced coils vs Coils in contact factors in to flavor.

Contact coils heat up faster because of mutual heating, how that affects flavor would depend on the eliquid.

It would seem that you might get a little more surface area contact to the wick with spaced coils compared to contact coil of the same resistance and gauge.

You could get a bit more embedding of the coil into the wick. A cooler vape because less of the coil is in contact with the air.

Also there is some current (don't know how much) traveling coil to coil if they make contact.

Not if properly oxidized. At the voltages we use very very little current will jump the gap.
 

David Wolf

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Contact coils heat up faster because of mutual heating, how that affects flavor would depend on the eliquid.

You could get a bit more embedding of the coil into the wick. A cooler vape because less of the coil is in contact with the air.

Not if properly oxidized. At the voltages we use very very little current will jump the gap.
Good replies there. I've noticed on stock VOCC coils the saturated cotton tends to expand into the gap between the spaced coils, more contact. Seemed like a good thing to me, heat the juice not the air. When I build my first coils in definitely going to do a spaced one.
Not sure how much oxidation you get on a coil never dry burned, like a stock coil, but in any case I've read not much cross coil current on contacted coils like you say. Not that much contact surface area either. Appreciate the replies!
 
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Scotticus93

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If you run at the same wattage battery time should be pretty much the same.
50 w on a let's say .5 ohm coil uses more amps than on a 1 ohm coil. I won't do the math as I'm being lazy right now. But battery life is measured in mah so higher amps would kill the battery faster. I just need to buy more and keep them charged myself. Batteries are fairly cheap and have a decent amount of cycles on them. I'm not an expert but this is my basic understanding of how it all works.
 

Boden

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50 w on a let's say .5 ohm coil uses more amps than on a 1 ohm coil. I won't do the math as I'm being lazy right now. But battery life is measured in mah so higher amps would kill the battery faster. I just need to buy more and keep them charged myself. Batteries are fairly cheap and have a decent amount of cycles on them. I'm not an expert but this is my basic understanding of how it all works.

50W from a 1 ohm coil and 50W from a 0.5 ohm coil requires exactly the same battery draw.
 

Scotticus93

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50W from a 1 ohm coil and 50W from a 0.5 ohm coil requires exactly the same battery draw.
50 watts on .5 ohms pulls 10 amps and on a 1 ohm 50 watts pulls 7.07 amps. It's my understanding battery life is measured in miliamps per hour. Or how many amps are used times the time it's used. So theoretically you could fire a 3000mah battery at 3 amps and hold the button down for an hour (assuming there's no cutoff). But only for half an hour if it was pulling 6 amps. Bottom line is high voltage higher ohms using less battery life than the lower volts on subohm which makes the same wattage. Still I get better results from sub ohm running high wattage than higher ohm running high wattage. Not sure why this is. sub ohm will drain your battery faster tho.
 

edyle

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I find with TC that different juices like different temperatures. Custards etc like higher temps, fruits like lower ones. Theoretically, using temp control should make the flavour shine, but only at the right temperature. I have seen some manufacturers have started putting recommended temperatures on their bottles which I think is a great idea.

It is also very much to do with the coils. Large coils i.e. 3mm will give more clouds, but not as much flavour. I have found IMO that 2mm is great for flavour, but you can't have too much power/heat going through it as the juice will overcook. You can get great flavour from sub ohm builds, but I find that 0.8 to 1.2 ohms is a great playing field for great flavour if using non TC builds.

What gauge wire are you talking about? 28 gauge?
I think there's an ideal diameter for a particular gauge and I'd like to find that relationship.
 

Boden

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50 watts on .5 ohms pulls 10 amps and on a 1 ohm 50 watts pulls 7.07 amps. It's my understanding battery life is measured in miliamps per hour. Or how many amps are used times the time it's used. So theoretically you could fire a 3000mah battery at 3 amps and hold the button down for an hour (assuming there's no cutoff). Bottom line is high voltage higher ohms using less battery life than the lower volts on subohm which makes the same wattage. Still I get better results from sub ohm running high wattage than higher ohm running high wattage. Not sure why this is. Bottom line is sub ohm will drain your battery faster.

Nope, W = V•A

When you're talking about watts generated by a coil using a regulated device resistance is not in the equation.

You are doing the math for mechanical device. With a regulated device the battery draw is not calculated in that way.
 
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edyle

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50 watts on .5 ohms pulls 10 amps and on a 1 ohm 50 watts pulls 7.07 amps. It's my understanding battery life is measured in miliamps per hour. Or how many amps are used times the time it's used. So theoretically you could fire a 3000mah battery at 3 amps and hold the button down for an hour (assuming there's no cutoff). But only for half an hour if it was pulling 6 amps. Bottom line is high voltage higher ohms using less battery life than the lower volts on subohm which makes the same wattage. Still I get better results from sub ohm running high wattage than higher ohm running high wattage. Not sure why this is. sub ohm will drain your battery faster tho.

50 watts on .5 ohms pulls 10 amps and on a 1 ohm 50 watts pulls 7.07 amps
50 watts from a 4 volt battery requires 12.5 amps from the battery.

the voltage accross the 0.5 ohm coil is 5 volts.
the voltage accross the 1 ohm coil is 7.07 volts
 
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What gauge wire are you talking about? 28 gauge?
I think there's an ideal diameter for a particular gauge and I'd like to find that relationship.
Yes. 28g NI200 on a 2mm rod (actually the little blue screwdriver most of us have which is ~2mm. I'm actually running one now in my Goliath V2.

9 wraps come out around 0.07 ohms. 45 joules at 450f is lovely. Mod is an IPV4s.


Vape on, live long!
 
What gauge wire are you talking about? 28 gauge?
I think there's an ideal diameter for a particular gauge and I'd like to find that relationship.
If you're talking kanthal sorry, 28g is great for me at 2mm. Quick ramp up and down compared to 24g and it's easy to work with. I use a coil master. I forget the wraps but if you go to Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators you can find your ideal ohms based on wire/ID [emoji3]


Vape on, live long!
 

Boden

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If you're talking kanthal sorry, 28g is great for me at 2mm. Quick ramp up and down compared to 24g and it's easy to work with. I use a coil master. I forget the wraps but if you go to Coil wrapping | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators you can find your ideal ohms based on wire/ID [emoji3]


Vape on, live long!
With regulated power supply's you don't build to resistance you build to size. Making sure that the resistance is within the mods usable range for the wattage you plan to apply is secondary.
 

edyle

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I'm curious as to the logic behind this?

Think extreme.
with 28 gauge you might make a 2 to 3mm diameter coil.

Now imagine you have wire ten times thicker; it's not going to be practical.

You're going to have maybe a common relationship between the diameter of the wire and the diameter of the coil.
Coil diameter is typically somewhere between 3 and 10 times wire diameter.
 
With regulated power supply's you don't build to resistance you build to size. Making sure that the resistance is within the mods usable range for the wattage you plan to apply is secondary.
No entirely sure what you mean. I build a coil to be a certain resistance as I know the power it needs to perform. I never build one based on how big I want it.


Vape on, live long!
 

Boden

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No entirely sure what you mean. I build a coil to be a certain resistance as I know the power it needs to perform. I never build one based on how big I want it.


Vape on, live long!
Power (W) is determined by surface area (mW/mm^2) not resistance. Resistance means nothing to a regulated device as long as it is within its usable range.
 

Boden

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Think extreme.
with 28 gauge you might make a 2 to 3mm diameter coil.

Now imagine you have wire ten times thicker; it's not going to be practical.

You're going to have maybe a common relationship between the diameter of the wire and the diameter of the coil.
Coil diameter is typically somewhere between 3 and 10 times wire diameter.
What are you trying to solve by figuring this out? A stability equation?

I'm still trying to wrap my head around it.
 
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