Thanks Pen. Like I said, Im just reading all I can for now. I have no plans on building anything yet. Hell I dont even have an rba of any sort, but I am looking at the RSST. Also I should get a fuse or a kick before taking this leap...
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Always figure your resistance/amp draw/battery rating at 4.2 volts (4.1 maybe; . . ..but if you like a little margin . . . 4.2V is best).
It's interesting how many think that Li-ion batteries are 3.7 volts.
Having thoroughly fell for micro-coils, sub ohm vaping only comes up for me when going dual coil. Even with a vertical micro-coil in a bottom coil tank, it's really hard to get the same action a dual coil RDA can put out. Even doing that I'm at 0.8 ohms, it's nothing crazy compared to some things I read about. 0.2 ohm and under... that must... interesting.
Battery safety is one thing, but regularly pushing a battery to it's amp limit is bound to reduce it's lifespan and speed up the internal resistance increase that goes along with an aged battery. If that's your thing, go right ahead... but it's going to cost you more money. Just because my motorcycle redlines at 17k RPM doesn't mean that 16k is safe to do all the time. Rebuilds aren't fun or cheap. I may have some facts wrong and that may be a poor comparison, but just because something can be done doesn't mean it can continue in that manor without consequences.
For someone that stays in the 0.8 ohm range at the lowest, a Kick 2 is a very nice device. Having a consistent vape until it's time to charge the battery and added safety is pretty sweet. I highly recommend it, as long as you can stay within it's limits (over 0.5 ohm).
I didn't mean to derail this thread onto micro-coils or the Kick 2, I just wanted to bump it. It's a good read!
I'm afraid that many (most?) people now flocking to the mech/sub-ohm bandwagon are not even remotely educated about what they're getting into. And don't even bother reading 'complicated, boring stuff' like this thread, of course.
Unfortunately it seems to be a matter of distorted pride for some people... if some [knowledgeable] folks can go down to 0.5 ohm and survive to tell their story, then those others have to go further down to 0.3. And brag about it. Then the next idiot wants to brag about 0.2 ohm.. See a pattern?
I'm really hoping that most braggers are just duh bragging in fact, and don't really try and push the envelope too far. Still, I'm keeping an eye on the Darwin Awards website
Unfortunately it seems to be a matter of distorted pride for some people... if some [knowledgeable] folks can go down to 0.5 ohm and survive to tell their story, then those others have to go further down to 0.3. And brag about it. Then the next idiot wants to brag about 0.2 ohm.. See a pattern?
I'm really hoping that most braggers are just duh bragging in fact, and don't really try and push the envelope too far. Still, I'm keeping an eye on the Darwin Awards website
Most vape shops just do a 3 wrapp on 28 guage kanthal and that comes out to be .3ish ohms they did that to my first mod when I started and I thought it was normal for the mod to get so hot good thing im curious and looked it up and found this thread... I was on an efest 18500 10 amps
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If that's a true statement (not doubting you!), I think that vape shop should be privately reported to somebody here at ECF, or anybody that knows this stuff. Just so maybe they can get a friendly phone call. I wouldn't be suprised if in a lot of cases the owner of the shop doesn't know it is happening and would probably not like to see in the newspapers (or get sued) that something built in their shop hurt somebody.
I've seen people tell this tale, or one very like it, too many times lately. First saw it mostly about California vape shops but lately it's been cropping up from more places.
Good for you m3nace on doing some homework and figuring things out. I really hope this doesn't become too common!
I know for a fact that one of the shops here does it, and I did mention it to the shop owners.
With that being said, for my first rba I went with the igo L. Ive also not made any coils lower than .6 ohms in this short time, and everything has worked out great! Thanks again for all the great info and tips in this thread!
So another question, what if u have several batteries in paralell, is it still just the amp from a single battery? or will it be the total of all batteries added together?
In series you add the sum of all the voltages and get the weakest of the amperage's, in parallel you get the sum of all the amperage, and the weakest of the voltage's.
Ok, so I've been preaching to all the newbies obsessed with sub-ohming about the potential risks if they don't know what they're doing. I personally only use IMR 18650s or MNKEs and make my could between 0.8 and 1.2 ohms.
Something I would like to know is whether using a fuse/vapesafe would eliminate the possibility of thermal meltdown related to substantial sub-ohming. In other words, is vaping 0.5ohm on a good battery safer with one of these fuses? I imagine they'll probably trip if the battery is running too hard.
Also, I think it might be helpful to noobs if someone listed out each type of 18650 battery and ranges of safe use with each. My goal here is to educate the growing masses of beginners that wholeheartedly believe serious sub-ohm cloud chasing is THE way to go. I've even seem some idiot brag/post about a 0.1ohm set up. With this trend I unfortunately have no doubt in my mind that it's only a matter of time before somebody blows their face off and vaping gets banned as a result. I hope I'm wrong but with ecigs under a lot of global debate I'm sure a publicized incident anywhere on the planet could cause many countries to ban them for safety reasons.
Something I would like to know is whether using a fuse/vapesafe would eliminate the possibility of thermal meltdown related to substantial sub-ohming. In other words, is vaping 0.5ohm on a good battery safer with one of these fuses? I imagine they'll probably trip if the battery is running too hard.
Also, I think it might be helpful to noobs if someone listed out each type of 18650 battery and ranges of safe use with each. My goal here is to educate the growing masses of beginners that wholeheartedly believe serious sub-ohm cloud chasing is THE way to go. I've even seem some idiot brag/post about a 0.1ohm set up. With this trend I unfortunately have no doubt in my mind that it's only a matter of time before somebody blows their face off and vaping gets banned as a result. I hope I'm wrong but with ecigs under a lot of global debate I'm sure a publicized incident anywhere on the planet could cause many countries to ban them for safety reasons.
I feel like we should make something really clear and simple for people to know exactly what is safe & risky. Granted there are many variables that would have to be addressed and which make doing this a bit of a pain but I think it would be helpful to refer anyone to a particular 'sticky' link that would answer all of their questions and enlighten them on what is safe and what's not.
Depends on what amperage the fuse trips at. For example, if a fuse trips at 6 amps and a battery is putting out 3.7 volts under load, anything around 0.6 ohms or under will trip it. With resistances that low, probably the best bet is just to use quality batteries and take proper care of them to keep them in peak condition.
Now if you're more in the 0.8 and up range a fuse may still be able to serve its intended purpose. However, I am a believer in using quality batteries and proper handling regardless of coil resistance or the presence of other fail-safes
The Smok vape safe is 7 amps, the vape safe 2 is 6 amps as is the 2 cent fuse, as near as I can find.
So with your set up, you are right at 6.33 amps with a fresh battery. (including sag from load)
"Load" is the energy output that the coil pulls from the battery. The "sag from load" means instead of 4.1 volts (when fully charged) when under load the battery voltage sags or drops to a voltage less than that. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, or has a better explanation.
Nope, you pretty much got it! It's like a car battery, it's 13.8 volts, open the door and the dome light is nice and bright. Go to start it with the door open and the dome light dims a lot. This is from the load the starter is putting on the battery dropping the voltage to 9-11 volts depending.
The same thing happens with an atomizer, because of the drain on the battery, load in amps, the voltage drops to supply that load. The lower the resistance the more amps are drawn and the more sag you will see.
A bit more "technical" explanation for those that may be wondering...
Batteries have their own internal resistance separate from the coil resistance. This resistance uses up a portion of the power that would [in a perfect world] go to the coil. Good high drain batteries typically have an internal resistance of 0.04-0.08Ω. With Ohm's law (E=IR) we can see what the actual voltage drop should be.
| Source Voltage | 4.2 | ||
| Battery Resistance | 0.06 | ||
| Coil Resistance | 1 | ||
| Total Resistance | 1.06 | ||
| Current | 3.96 | ||
| Total Power (W) | 16.64 | ||
| V drop | KVL | Watts | |
| Battery Resistance | 0.24 | 3.96 | 0.94 |
| Coil Resistance | 3.96 | 0.00 | 15.70 |
This tells us that with an internal resistance of 0.06Ω and a 1.0Ω coil, that there will be a 0.24V drop in the battery leaving 3.96V to be used by the coil.
Also notice that the internal resistance is generating 0.94W of heat INSIDE the battery. This paves the groundwork for setting the max discharge limit for batteries.
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Added this 18xxx battery spec & amp limit chart to the 1st post in this thread:
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