SXmini M Class (TEMP CONTROL)

[Fir3b1rd]

See this is why i elect not to respond to this anymore. 420 to 495 is 75 degrees, which on planet earth is (75/420) = 17.86%.

I do not work for yihi. but my information came DIRECTLY from them. Graphs? just look at your device and see for yourself. set it to any temperature. You don't see it firing about this?

And their "short / abbreviated" version is posted right on their website. What's New - Re the hum/buzzing sound

"Because the technology of M Class is the newest, and supports lower sub-ohm resistance, we suggest a 0.06-0.12 ohm base on Temco Ni-200. You can get the PERFECT experinces when you build the atomizer with the resistance 0.06ohm. However, if using the resistance above 0.3 ohm or Khanthal atomizers there will be variance and some unexpected behaviors may be observed in Joule mode.

And i'll answer your next question in an effort to save time. The unit is NOT 100% accurate from 0.07 to 0.30 and then all of a sudden it goes haywire. There is a gradual drop in accuracy the further away from the 0.065 ABSOLUTE BASE you go.

I still am amazed at all the talk here with building high? Why do you need/want to?
Is is that hard to use a 4-1/2 28g 3mm wrap or a 6-1/2 26g 3mm wrap? Why fight me when you have neither the basis to nor even try it to compare. Have you seen a single post from ANYONE here that is in the 0.06 to 0.09 range with any complaints? No..... because this is where the device is optimized for and where it is most accurate.

Why do you chose to argue with people happy with the performance they are getting from any device?
I love it when I spend money on something and al loving it only to come online and have someone who can't site their sources tell me im doing it wrong.
Let them do it their way, it's not dangerous, and they like it.
Sheesh
For the record, on my lemo, a 0.08 with 26g and a 0.12 with 28g aren't that far apart in vape experience.. With the sale settings.
Maybe I got lucky

Even luckier, my Atlantis ni200 coils are 0.15 and 0.16 and they are working fantastic for me...either it's luck or is aspire better than kanger.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I REALLY don't want to step into this conversation, because I don't understand half of it, and I'm just not that interested....

However, saying that "people can not even get a kanger occ @ 0.015 to work" is simply incorrect.

I use a Kanger occ, set to 450F and 36J, and it works great, excellent flavor and my cotton doesn't burn... not sure if you're saying it doesn't work in some other way, but to ME, if I get an excellent vape, good flavor and good clouds, and I can vape until the tank is bone dry and not burn the cotton, that, TO ME... is working.

Does the temp jump above the 450F I set it to? Yeah, on occasion. Do I give a rat's ***? No. It delivers a great, warm vape and I don't have to worry about burnt cotton.

Period. End of sentence.

LOL. Apparently, you haven't been in the vaping community very long. Have a great evening.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Why do you chose to argue with people happy with the performance they are getting from any device?
I love it when I spend money on something and al loving it only to come online and have someone who can't site their sources tell me im doing it wrong.
Let them do it their way, it's not dangerous, and they like it.
Sheesh
For the record, on my lemo, a 0.08 with 26g and a 0.12 with 28g aren't that far apart in vape experience.. With the sale settings.
Maybe I got lucky

Even luckier, my Atlantis ni200 coils are 0.15 and 0.16 and they are working fantastic for me...either it's luck or is aspire better than kanger.

Yeah, you got lucky. Hello, fir3b1rd.

 

[jazzvaper]

Throw away the rhetoric about the yihi xs mini m class, it's an incredible pv. I bought the Provari v.1 when it came out in 2010/11. The sx mini m class is what the provari v.1 was to vaping at that time: the poop. What an incredibly, solidly built pv this thing is. I got mine yesterday and I'm blown away by this thing. There's nothing on the market that matches its quality and versatility--at any price. I paid over $200 for the Provari v.1 in 2010 (with the extend cap). At $199, this pv is a steal. It's taken me a 24 hours to hone in the potential of this pv and it's awesome. If I can figure out how to maximize this pv in 24 hours, anyone can. I've only been building coils since the first of the year when I got my vaporshark rdna 40... which is crap compared the sx mini m class. Just buy it, if you don't already have it, and if you have it--enjoy. If I can figure this thing out, then anyone can. carpe diem or pv.

Good place for me to chime in.

Just received the Lemo 2 today (a jwrap for the SX yesterday) so have been doing some down to Earth checking/comparison. I move the K4 and Lemo 2 between devices (SX and 40) waiting for each to cool.

I can get a good to excellent vape on either device/combo.

How can that be with all the tussle going on between "T" and "V"? Simple, I understand what, and how,TC/TL is design to work. The SX is tuned to a lower resistance than the 40, so I adjust my thinking and settings. The 40 is tuned (algorithmically) to a higher resistance, so I adjust my thinking and settings accordingly.

Not rocket science or a deep philosophical problem. The solution, after understanding the technological premises, is to use the device you prefer at its optimal settings, the way it was designed, not the way you "wish" it were designed.

[Incisive analogy omitted]




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[JimScotty0]

Hello all, I just wanted to pass on some good info from Cloud 9. They are one of the best UK vape stores we have. Anyway, I have a way to test and see if temp is working. Here's what to do.

Clean your contacts with alcohol first. Apparently, it is easy for gue to build up on the 510 pin on our M Class's (maybe all mods?). So give that a good clean first if you are having issues.

Then leave your M CLass and atomizer to reach room temp. Then do an OHMs calibration (do not fire the power button). Write down the OHMs. Remove and replace the atomiser and calibrate again, each time recording the numbers. It should read the same OHMs every time. Assuming temps are the same on both device and tank. If you are still getting inconsistent numbers, then you know you have a connection issue somewhere?

It would be good if everyone would try this and report back. Especially if you DON'T have a problem. Here are my numbers

0.154
0.101
0.086
0.082
0.088
0.083

I will test again with a new build and see if things change.

Good research people!

I did a similar test and posted it about 2 weeks ago. My build at that time was around .071 if I remember correctly. I took the atty on and off, after first build, let it cool down after a few vapes, a few hours later, and even the next day. My readings on my Lemo 2 were within .002 between them all. I would say that is pretty consistent.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Good place for me to chime in.

Just received the Lemo 2 today (a jwrap for the SX yesterday) so have been doing some down to Earth checking/comparison. I move the K4 and Lemo 2 between devices (SX and 40) waiting for each to cool.

I can get a good to excellent vape on either device/combo.

How can that be with all the tussle going on between "T" and "V"? Simple, I understand what, and how,TC/TL is design to work. The SX is tuned to a lower resistance than the 40, so I adjust my thinking and settings. The 40 is tuned (algorithmically) to a higher resistance, so I adjust my thinking and settings accordingly.

Not rocket science or a deep philosophical problem. The solution, after understanding the technological premises, is to use the device you prefer at its optimal settings, the way it was designed, not the way you "wish" it were designed.

[Incisive analogy omitted]




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Exactly!! The Pepper decided not to use his M.I.T. language for his write-up.

 

[Vlad1]

Good place for me to chime in.

Just received the Lemo 2 today (a jwrap for the SX yesterday) so have been doing some down to Earth checking/comparison. I move the K4 and Lemo 2 between devices (SX and 40) waiting for each to cool.

I can get a good to excellent vape on either device/combo.

How can that be with all the tussle going on between "T" and "V"? Simple, I understand what, and how,TC/TL is design to work. The SX is tuned to a lower resistance than the 40, so I adjust my thinking and settings. The 40 is tuned (algorithmically) to a higher resistance, so I adjust my thinking and settings accordingly.

Not rocket science or a deep philosophical problem. The solution, after understanding the technological premises, is to use the device you prefer at its optimal settings, the way it was designed, not the way you "wish" it were designed.

[Incisive analogy omitted]




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Wouldn't it be nice if you had memory banks on both so you could swap atty's at will and just change to a different memory bank with the appropriate power setting.

 

[jazzvaper]

Wouldn't it be nice if you had memory banks on both so you could swap atty's at will and just change to a different memory bank with the appropriate power setting.

Of course!

But neither is designed that way...YET.


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[dam718]

dannyben, I don't mean to stoke the fire or anything, but...

Don't you think that if the SXmini can baseline itself as low as .05 Ohms, and has an operating temp from 212F to 572F that it is "Calibrated" to sense the temperature coefficient of resistance of Ni200 through the entire range of resistance between .05 Ohms and whatever the resistance value is at 572F? I mean, the thing has the entire spectrum of values programmed right into it. WE are the ones calibrating the device by telling it to set the initial resistance value. It knows what it's own temp is, and assumes that the temp of the coil matches it's on board sensor, and then boom, baseline calibration set. The TCR curve does not change because it started at .19 ohms as opposed to .065. Unless you are suggesting that YiHi has altered the laws of physics, then your argument holds little weight. I think it was you that mentioned that the TCR is not linear, and that is certainly true. It is, however, well documented and very predictable well above 572F, so as much as you'd like to believe the SXmini M Class can only perform optimally at a baseline resistance value of .065 Ohms, the real truth is, that as long as you set a baseline that does not exceed the maximum resistance it has in its on board programming for the TCR curve at max temp (which would be the resistance delta from the baseline value) then it will work as advertised with a ballpark level of accuracy. And that accuracy is only as solid as the TCR curve it has programmed.

I think the reason none of us are buying your argument is because we understand the scientific principles at work here. I'm truly not trying to be rude, but I think your understanding of these principles may be a bit cloudy. Nothing to be ashamed of, and I hope you don't get upset over it. Try to see past YiHi's recommendation and look at the science behind it. I have some guesses as to why YiHi made that recommendation, which probably has more to do with battery efficiency and power production than temperature accuracy.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

dannyben, I don't mean to stoke the fire or anything, but...

Don't you think that if the SXmini can baseline itself as low as .05 Ohms, and has an operating temp from 212F to 572F that it is "Calibrated" to sense the temperature coefficient of resistance of Ni200 through the entire range of resistance between .05 Ohms and whatever the resistance value is at 572F? I mean, the thing has the entire spectrum of values programmed right into it. WE are the ones calibrating the device by telling it to set the initial resistance value. It knows what it's own temp is, and assumes that the temp of the coil matches it's on board sensor, and then boom, baseline calibration set. The TCR curve does not change because it started at .19 ohms as opposed to .065. Unless you are suggesting that YiHi has altered the laws of physics, then your argument holds little weight. I think it was you that mentioned that the TCR is not linear, and that is certainly true. It is, however, well documented and very predictable well above 572F, so as much as you'd like to believe the SXmini M Class can only perform optimally at a baseline resistance value of .065 Ohms, the real truth is, that as long as you set a baseline that does not exceed the maximum resistance it has in its on board programming for the TCR curve at max temp (which would be the resistance delta from the baseline value) then it will work as advertised with a ballpark level of accuracy. And that accuracy is only as solid as the TCR curve it has programmed.

I think the reason none of us are buying your argument is because we understand the scientific principles at work here. I'm truly not trying to be rude, but I think your understanding of these principles may be a bit cloudy. Nothing to be ashamed of, and I hope you don't get upset over it. Try to see past YiHi's recommendation and look at the science behind it. I have some guesses as to why YiHi made that recommendation, which probably has more to do with battery efficiency and power production than temperature accuracy.

And sometimes I believe we can over think what is, is. Nothing is that exact. What I know is my cotton is not being burned at the temperature I am setting: 350-400 degrees, depending upon the coil I am using. The SX mini m class works for me and I hope it works for you.

 

[Vlad1]

@dam718

dannyben, I don't mean to stoke the fire or anything, but...

Don't you think that if the SXmini can baseline itself as low as .05 Ohms, and has an operating temp from 212F to 572F that it is "Calibrated" to sense the temperature coefficient of resistance of Ni200 through the entire range of resistance between .05 Ohms and whatever the resistance value is at 572F? I mean, the thing has the entire spectrum of values programmed right into it. WE are the ones calibrating the device by telling it to set the initial resistance value. It knows what it's own temp is, and assumes that the temp of the coil matches it's on board sensor, and then boom, baseline calibration set. The TCR curve does not change because it started at .19 ohms as opposed to .065. Unless you are suggesting that YiHi has altered the laws of physics, then your argument holds little weight. I think it was you that mentioned that the TCR is not linear, and that is certainly true. It is, however, well documented and very predictable well above 572F, so as much as you'd like to believe the SXmini M Class can only perform optimally at a baseline resistance value of .065 Ohms, the real truth is, that as long as you set a baseline that does not exceed the maximum resistance it has in its on board programming for the TCR curve at max temp (which would be the resistance delta from the baseline value) then it will work as advertised with a ballpark level of accuracy. And that accuracy is only as solid as the TCR curve it has programmed.

I think the reason none of us are buying your argument is because we understand the scientific principles at work here. I'm truly not trying to be rude, but I think your understanding of these principles may be a bit cloudy. Nothing to be ashamed of, and I hope you don't get upset over it. Try to see past YiHi's recommendation and look at the science behind it. I have some guesses as to why YiHi made that recommendation, which probably has more to do with battery efficiency and power production than temperature accuracy.

Agree completly. I think Holman had a very good theory awhile back on that. And that's where I'd place my bet.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Have a great night. The Pepper man is out.

 

[Vlad1]

Exactly my point. No need to drag titanium over here and then spread inaccurate info.

Ahh, misread your post. I thought you said Nobody talked about titanium here, I don't get why this hasn't been brought up? Bad eyes

 

[JimScotty0]

So this may be posted in the wrong place, but i have a question for someone out there. I just tried my first build with twisted 30G NI200, and it comes out to 0.10 in my Lemo2. I have up until this point stayed around 400F or higher with almost everything using 20-25J. With this build i am having trouble getting the mod to show higher than about 350F, even if i put it up to 30J. Does it just need more power with the twisted wire coil? I have never tried twisted wire in anything before. thanks and i apologize if this is a stupid question or posted in the wrong place. And it FEELS warmer btw.

I have seen this behavior with even non-twisted 28ga NI200 at times. I have no idea why, but the much lower temperature setting works the same as it would if it were where I usually run it at around 420F or so. It is just lower for some reason maybe 1 out of 10 times with a build or new juice. I am guessing it may be the juice since I do go anywhere from 50/50 to 100% VG depending on my mood.

I have posted this a few times, but the way I set my temperature is working very nicely for me. YMMV. I have made some minor changes though. First I want to make sure my atty, wicking, juice is settled in. It may be a little erratic when you first build. Wicking is very important factor also. You want to ensure you have a very good connection and can test that by taking the atty on and off and you should get the same calculated resistance. It should be very close. I am usually within .001-.002 at most in variance. You MUST ensure that the atty and mod have settled in at ambient temperature before you set your baseline resistance. I can't stress this more. So many posts have come through this thread by those experiencing weird results because of this simple required process.

I usually set my temp at around 520F or so for me to calculate my desired temperature. Different juices, builds, etc. will require a different final temperature. I set my Joules at 14J and run my baselining in Standard mode. I used to use 8J but I am getting more consistent results at 14J which I find doesn't cause the SXM to cause too much PFM during firing and it is the Joules setting I end up using anyway. I hold down the fire button and watch the temperature rise and find the temp where it seems to settle down for the most part. I will take a hit every 5 seconds or so to ensure the wick is still wet. The temperature value does move around a bit at times, but you will find a number that it seems to be mostly settling in at. Then I change the temperature setting to whatever that temp value I found. Never lower, but sometimes a few degrees higher at most. You can then adjust the mode to Soft, Powerful, Powerful+, or just keep it on Standard which is probably the most consistent vape along with Soft which has a slower ramp up.

I have found that 14J or 18J, will give me a very pleasant and consistent vape with no PFM pulsing which you will get with the higher Joules. 18J also works fine, but will be slightly warmer. 14J is very nice for me anyway most of the time. I have tried going higher with the Joules all the way up to 50J, but I find that is just causing jittering, rattlesnaking, or whatever you want to cause it as the SXM just pushes too much power and the chip just needs to throttle down too rapidly to compensate for your temperature setting. If you are hearing that rattle then you your temp/Jules settings are just too high for the build.

My theory here is to let the temperature setting determine the correct value for all the variables such as atty resistance, coil resistance, wicking, juice, and all the possible things that cause one build to be different than the next. When the temperature settles down comfortably without a high Joules setting causing pulsations in temp, that seems to be the value that I want to use. With that setting I find the juice is vaporizing just what it wants and not excessively heating it so that it wastes juice by turning it into gas at the higher temperatures which it just doesn't need. So if your temperature is jumping all over the place you are not taking advantage of TC within the limits of the SXM. You may get what you believe to be a good vape, but it could be better, much better.

I have been shooting for around .007 resistance in my builds and right now I have it at .078, 14J, and 429F, using a 50/50 PG/VG juice. I have been running this all day with a few tank refills on my Lemo 2 and having some of the best vaping I have ever experienced with awesome flavor and nice clouds. I have my airflow about 80% open which gives me a great flavor and keeps the wicks saturated. I have also reduced down the drip tip on the Lemo 2 because I don't like such a wide tip that it comes with and I feel I get more flavor.

If anyone has some other method to set your values and get consistent results I would enjoy giving that a try also to compare results. Of course, you could just by magic find a magic set of numbers and get great results but what about tomorrow or the next build. Would it also work? Maybe I am being too scientific here, but that is just the way I operate and I like predictability which I think I am finding for the most part. Not 100% of the time, but maybe around 97% of the time.

I just love my SXM and all the tinkering you can do with it to find your sweet spot. But I feel this is not a mod for a newbie and will require some skills to make it work very well for you in TC mode.

 

[JimScotty0]

I am trying to figure out what kind of a battery I am going to need to push a say .07 26awg coil to temp. I ordered some HE2's and some VTC4's they should both be sufficient correct?

I am getting excellent results with my HE2's, getting around 20k out of them.

 

[JimScotty0]

Pretty sure not authentic. I'm getting over 19kj with my 1yr old VTC5's

Same here with mine.

 

[Vlad1]

And more.... watch that video. PB uses a FLIR. look at the readings from 300 degrees (goes up to 330) and 500 degrees (goes up to 551). 10% and 10.2%. Please forgive my false statement of 10%. Looks like I was off 0.002.

You need to understand the Flir is using a focal point for the sensor detection whereas the device is using the average of the complete coil. The Flir is only a representation not an overall way to measure the actual temperature or resistance of the coil. You may notice that as it's moved up and down the coil it may vary a couple hundred degrees. That doesn't mean the device is 40% inaccurate.

 

[Podunk Steam]

I'm at 375F with a triple twisted 30 gauge coil wrapped on a 3.43mm mandrel ringing out at .07 ohms and can hold the fire button for about five seconds while watching the mod, not vaping. At about 5 seconds it starts bouncing off the temperature limiting. This isn't an M class but it is the SX350J circuit board run with parallel 18650s. Edit: This would be at 29 J, I guess the atomizer could help too, it's a Lemo2

 

[JimScotty0]

I just got some 26AWG and 28AWG Ni200 in this afternoon. I was using 30AWG before getting these in...

I haven't messed with the 28AWG at all yet. I went ahead and jumped right into the 26AWG... Made a 7 wrap coil, 3mm I.D., spaced... Came out to .068 Ohms, go steam engine! LoL

This is on the Subtank Mini RBA section, which with the 30AWG wire has been unstable to say the least. Twisted 30 was a little better, but still not as good as I was looking for.

Using this 26AWG is an entirely different experience. The vape is much better! You have to throw a little more power to it, right now I have it set to 30J. It's stabilizing right around 520F with a 20/80 PG/VG ratio. Have the temp limit set to 540, and I'm not touching the temp limit at all. Nice and smooth, warm vape! No hot spots on the coil at all!

For single coils, 26AWG, IMO, is the way to go!

Get a spool TODAY suckas! LoL

I already have 28ga, but have some 26ga NI200 coming in tomorrow. I am wanting to try a twisted 26ga NI200 along with 28ga Kanthal to see how that goes. My other choice to try is twisted 26ga NI200 along with 30ga Kanthal. I know a few of you have posted doing some mixed NI200/Kanthal but I haven't heard of anyone using 26ga NI200 twisted with some Kanthal. From what folks have stated, the Kanthal doesn't really change the resistance values since the NI200 would be the path of least resistance. I could pose some mounting challenges but I thought it would be worth a try.

Anyone have any experience with this?

 

[JimScotty0]

At this point, I'm thinking that Lemo 2 might have got hung up at the Post Office somewhere... It says it left Anaheim on the 28th of April, with a delivery date of Today. So far, no activity since Anaheim.

I'm pretty sure from Anaheim it gets on a plane directly to Honolulu, so no clue what the hold up is. Guess it's good to be patient.

I live pretty close to Anaheim but it will still have to be trucked to LAX. It could go directly there, or it might pass through another PO along the way.