SXmini M Class (TEMP CONTROL)

[Yozhik]

Are you really suggesting that fundamental engineering definitions are opinions, to be used however one wishes?

Miles per hour (or some other unit of measure equivalent) is the *only* way to describe rate of speed. Miles (or some UOM equivalent) is the only way to measure distance. It is not a matter of what one is "comfortable with".

In terms of user interface, units of measurement often aren't necessary at all. For instance, that all amplifiers use a scale of 0 to 10 doesn't stop bands from rocking out. And if you need to rock just a little bit louder sometimes, you get one that can go to 11.

 

[Hitcat44]

Update on "Escape From the Twilight Zone" Saga
At 20J the Temp Reading jumped +/- 15-20*
At 22.5J, it only varied by +/- 10*
Will leave it at the 22.5J for the time being. vape is still robust and steady in Ti Profile at the 444* F with nice "warmth" (as I prefer it).

For the Record,,, before I began the Building Leg of my Vape Journey; the only thing I truly "Got" or could grasp completely regarding Electricity and Electrical Theory & Concepts was-It Can Kill simply, easily, and quite efficiently. I was Wired to the Mechanical side of Physics and Natural Laws.
That wasn't the Fault of Electricity, Physics, or Definitions thereof.
Likewise, my personal Lacking and the frustrations deriving thereof were definitely NOT the fault or Onus of any device or Manufacturer that chose to utilize a Term or Facet unknown, unfamiliar, or "foreign" to me or that I particularly didn't like, agree with, or understand.
I finally was provided a Reason to desire to learn and assimilate as opposed to narcissistic Spewing in anger due to my own self-imposed Ignorance & selfish personal Preferences.
Thanks to vaping, that has changed dramatically and what was formally "Greek" has now become, for me anyways, quite Clear.
Another Personal Achievement provided by the Vape-Life.

All that being said, I'm off to write a scathing nasty visceral Essay to John Deere as they are stupidly gauging the Electrical availability on my ZT Mower in Volts as opposed to Amps like I prefer. Danged ol' Idiots

I will throw in an extra paragraph of Rant just in case they are even slightly contemplating a conversion to Joules

P.s. What Holmans should I set my Microwave on so my Popcorn doesn't get burnt?

 

[2legsshrt]

Legs,

OK I don't know - what is this mesh you are talking about?

Vape Mesh company in the UK. They have been in the metals business forever make their own Ti and sell to a lot of the vendors that mark it up. Seem like very good wire to me. It is GR1 vacuum annealed. Shipping is high but the wire is fairly cheap so it makes up for it. They make Titan wires and Crazy Wire and wouldn't be surprised if they made Sweet vapes and Spider silk or web or what ever it is. I think they got into the vaping end when the genesis atties were poplular and started making mesh thus the name.

 

[VNeil]

Update on "Escape From the Twilight Zone" Saga
At 20J the Temp Reading jumped +/- 15-20*
At 22.5J, it only varied by +/- 10*
Will leave it at the 22.5J for the time being. Vape is still robust and steady in Ti Profile at the 444* F with nice "warmth" (as I prefer it).

For the Record,,, before I began the Building Leg of my Vape Journey; the only thing I truly "Got" or could grasp completely regarding Electricity and Electrical Theory & Concepts was-It Can Kill simply, easily, and quite efficiently. I was Wired to the Mechanical side of Physics and Natural Laws.
That wasn't the Fault of Electricity, Physics, or Definitions thereof.
Likewise, my personal Lacking and the frustrations deriving thereof were definitely NOT the fault or Onus of any Device or Manufacturer that chose to utilize a Term or Facet unknown, unfamiliar, or "foreign" to me or that I particularly didn't like, agree with, or understand.
I finally was provided a Reason to desire to learn and assimilate as opposed to narcissistic Spewing in anger due to my own self-imposed Ignorance & selfish personal Preferences.
Thanks to Vaping, that has changed dramatically and what was formally "Greek" has now become, for me anyways, quite Clear.
Another Personal Achievement provided by the Vape-Life.

All that being said, I'm off to write a scathing nasty visceral Essay to John Deere as they are stupidly gauging the Electrical availability on my ZT Mower in Volts as opposed to Amps like I prefer. Danged ol' Idiots

I will throw in an extra paragraph of Rant just in case they are even slightly contemplating a conversion to Joules

And 45 years ago, at the age of 13, I acquired an Amateur Radio License. I had to pass a written theory exam, which included things like the definition of a watt. And a whole lot more. Watts was the easiest part. A few years later I was trained as an electrical engineer. So I understand how engineers think. And I can assure you it was not an engineer that decided to call that setting "Joules". It was a marketing guy. Probably trying to come up with something cute to justify the 4x price he wanted to charge (but that is purely an educated speculation on my part). Simply because any engineer would know that was fundamentally wrong, and an engineer would not do that.

And anyone that has spent any time in high tech knows that the marketing guys always win those arguments. Doesn't make it factually right. It just means words don't always matter after the marketing guy gets done. But if the marketing guy says the emperor has ruby encrusted clothes, that does not mean we, the customers, have to repeat that mindlessly if we clearly see he is naked. Nor should we be attacked because we point it out in the latest emperor's fashion apparel thread.

 

[2legsshrt]

And if you are wondering about the lower temps it's because I DIY and I only use flavors from a company in Russia. The cremes are so good but they are also very strong I can only use them at between 1.5% and 2.5% and they still have a strong good flavor. The fruits are a little weaker some you have to use up to 3%. but it is all I use anymore. Hard to get but I did make friends with a guy in Germany that I can get them from.

 

[druckle]

Vape Mesh company in the UK. They have been in the metals business forever make their own Ti and sell to a lot of the vendors that mark it up. Seem like very good wire to me. It is GR1 vacuum annealed. Shipping is high but the wire is fairly cheap so it makes up for it. They make Titan wires and Crazy Wire and wouldn't be surprised if they made Sweet vapes and Spider silk or web or what ever it is. I think they got into the vaping end when the genesis atties were poplular and started making mesh thus the name.

They do not make their own TI. They clean and anneal Ti wire that they buy from someone else...and we don't know who that is.

Duane

 

[JimScotty0]

The difference between a joule and a watt is the difference between energy and power. Power is energy used in a certain amount of time. A joule is a unit of electrical energy equal to the work done when 1 amp passes through resistance of 1 ohm for 1 second. A watt is a unit of power equal to one joule per second.

One joule can also be defined as:

• The work required to move an electric charge of one coulomb through an electrical potential difference of one volt, or one '"coulomb volt" (C·V). This relationship can be used to define the volt.
• The work required to produce one watt of power for one second, or one "watt second" (W·s) (compare kilowatt hour - 3.6 megajoules). This relationship can be used to define the watt.

If you are measuring in 1 second increments then it makes no difference if you use watts or joules.

The SXM uses a Joules counter to keep track of how much energy has been consumed from the battery since the time it was inserted. It is more appropriate to use Joules and not Watts for that measurement. Since you are using Joules for that scale, why not use it for setting the amount of energy you want to push out to your coil?

When you use the SXM in non TC mode, the unit of measurement that is used is watts. So for some that may make it easier to know that when in Joules mode I am using TC and when I am in Wattage mode, I am not using TC. However all modes use Joules for the battery counter.

Joules is not a new term. It is commonly used in the electronics industry to measure power/time. I remember studying Joules, Coulombs, etc., back when I was a kid studying electronics theory. Just some terms are used more than others. When was the last time you asked someone how many coulombs does your battery have now.

I wonder if Yihi considered using Coulombs which is a constant current of one ampere in one second?

Now for a more interesting subject let's talk about Yottajoules:

The yottajoule (YJ) is equal to one septillion (1024) joules. This is approximately the amount of energy required to heat the entire volume of water on Earth by 1 °C not F. The thermal output of the Sun is approximately 400 YJ per second.

We may need to learn about Yottajoules at the rate we are producing these high power modes these days.

 

[2legsshrt]

You can get them directly from the company in Russia if they are taking US orders this month. They are like dealing with the Soup Nazi and it takes about 2 months for shipping if they even make it. USPS has a way of screwing the orders up, the reason for no US orders. Seems if it is not addressed exactly like how an American would do it like zip code on the left instead of the right they are lost. They write it in Russian and English sort of.

 

[2legsshrt]

They do not make their own TI. They clean and anneal Ti wire that they buy from someone else...and we don't know who that is.

Duane

 

[2legsshrt]

The Mesh Company may be a new venture, but it is based on established businesses which can show a history back into the 19th Century.

We have brought many, many years of experience in the manufacture, application and use of mesh to the modern online world of e-commerce.

Our experience showed us that it is very difficult for individuals and even small groups to purchase mesh and mesh products in economic quantities as existing businesses are focussed on large scale commercial customers.

The Mesh Company was formed with the express intent to open up a channel through which small volume customers can gain access to these wonderfully diverse and interesting products.

The Mesh Company factory is in Warrington Cheshire:

 

[Hitcat44]

Vneil, THAT is truly impressive alright....
Good for You
Good for the "Marketing Guy Types" too....

I understand both....
Come from a Family of Engineers. Studied Engineering at College (on an Academic Full-Ride by the way-Yay! Good for me too huh ) until half way through the Junior Year. Decided it was all too "Concrete" and frankly just no damned "Fun". Switched to Poly-Sci and Psychology.
Been in the "Sales & Marketing" Game for over 25 years. It ain't Rocket (or Electrical) Science but it is Fun.
And one of the Best parts,,, I don't get Angry, Argumentative, Combative, or Stressed-Out over trivial things beyond my control much less the trumped-up Skirmishes & Hissies of those that do.
However, it is a Hoot and Fun to watch unfold much like watching a Puppy chase its own Tail.
Had all the "Fun" I care to have in this little Side-Show. Time to move onward.

 

[druckle]

The difference between a joule and a watt is the difference between energy and power. Power is energy used in a certain amount of time. A joule is a unit of electrical energy equal to the work done when 1 amp passes through resistance of 1 ohm for 1 second. A watt is a unit of power equal to one joule per second.

One joule can also be defined as:

• The work required to move an electric charge of one coulomb through an electrical potential difference of one volt, or one '"coulomb volt" (C·V). This relationship can be used to define the volt.
• The work required to produce one watt of power for one second, or one "watt second" (W·s) (compare kilowatt hour - 3.6 megajoules). This relationship can be used to define the watt.

If you are measuring in 1 second increments then it makes no difference if you use watts or joules.

The SXM uses a Joules counter to keep track of how much energy has been consumed from the battery since the time it was inserted. It is more appropriate to use Joules and not Watts for that measurement. Since you are using Joules for that scale, why not use it for setting the amount of energy you want to push out to your coil?

When you use the SXM in non TC mode, the unit of measurement that is used is watts. So for some that may make it easier to know that when in Joules mode I am using TC and when I am in Wattage mode, I am not using TC. However all modes use Joules for the battery counter.

Joules is not a new term. It is commonly used in the electronics industry to measure power/time. I remember studying Joules, Coulombs, etc., back when I was a kid studying electronics theory. Just some terms are used more than others. When was the last time you asked someone how many coulombs does your battery have now.

I wonder if Yihi considered using Coulombs which is a constant current of one ampere in one second?

Now for a more interesting subject let's talk about Yottajoules:

The yottajoule (YJ) is equal to one septillion (1024) joules. This is approximately the amount of energy required to heat the entire volume of water on Earth by 1 °C not F. The thermal output of the Sun is approximately 400 YJ per second.

We may need to learn about Yottajoules at the rate we are producing these high power modes these days.

Does Yoda measure the energy of the Force in Yottajoules?

Duane

 

[2legsshrt]

Duane IDK that they make the wire themselves but the impression I got from QM was they are part of the company that does. Have to ask him he is the one that told me about them. One thing I do know is they sell good wire and always send you a little surprise. Not sure what mine was but thinking it was 29awg I tried to wrap a coil. I think it was 32. Haven't tried twisting it yet and see what I come out with.

 

[Hitcat44]

Does Yoda measure the energy of the Force in Yottajoules?

Duane

Only when his Watts get all bound up in his Dark Side....

 

[HolmanGT]

Only when his Watts get all bound up in his Dark Side....

"all bound up in his Dark Side"
Dam Hitcat you beat me to it.

 

[vapo jam]

If anyone cares, joules are also used to measure heat. Adding more heat typically (but not always) results in raising the temperature of the substance to which it was added. My personal understanding of the Chinglish on Yihi's explanation is that they intended the joules to be a measure of the heat applied to the coil, hence their reference to calories/caloric conversion.

I don't have the inclination to calculate whether they got it right, as it's been quite some time since I've done any thermodynamics (it's not a lot of fun, not nearly as intuitive as basic electrical theory...).

All that being said, it doesn't particularly matter to me. Had my M-class for 2-3 weeks now and I absolutely love it; it's by far the best mod I've ever owned and I think Yihi did a great job in terms of balancing usability and consistency with vape customization. If anyone reading this is on the fence about getting one, I'd say do it now. You won't regret it.

 

[Yozhik]

And 45 years ago, at the age of 13, I acquired an Amateur Radio License. I had to pass a written theory exam, which included things like the definition of a watt. And a whole lot more. Watts was the easiest part. A few years later I was trained as an electrical engineer. So I understand how engineers think. And I can assure you it was not an engineer that decided to call that setting "Joules". It was a marketing guy. Probably trying to come up with something cute to justify the 4x price he wanted to charge (but that is purely an educated speculation on my part). Simply because any engineer would know that was fundamentally wrong, and an engineer would not do that.

And anyone that has spent any time in high tech knows that the marketing guys always win those arguments. Doesn't make it factually right. It just means words don't always matter after the marketing guy gets done. But if the marketing guy says the emperor has ruby encrusted clothes, that does not mean we, the customers, have to repeat that mindlessly if we clearly see he is naked. Nor should we be attacked because we point it out in the latest emperor's fashion apparel thread.

As someone who not only meets and likely exceeds your stated qualifications, I'd say your failure is not understanding that the TC algorithm can ask the input question in more than one way:

(1) What is the maximum power that the device may use to heat the coil?

(2) What is the maximum amount of energy per second that the device may use to heat the coil?

(3) What is the maximum current that the device may use to heat the coil?

(4) What is the maximum voltage that the device may use to heat the coil?

Etc.

So many ways to do it, just that one approach doesn't fit your idealistic preference doesn't mean its wrong. Rather, it just means you're yet another engineer with too strong of opinions on things that don't matter.

As to why they are likely using Joules, since TC is using Joules heating, the conversion of electrical energy to thermal energy is based on Joules, not Watts.

 

[VNeil]

....
If you are measuring in 1 second increments then it makes no difference if you use watts or joules.

So in other words, it would be ok for a sign in Wachington DC to indicate the distance to Manhattan as 229 MPH, as long as we assume we are talking about one hour time increments?

 

[Ardy]

Duane IDK that they make the wire themselves but the impression I got from QM was they are part of the company that does. Have to ask him he is the one that told me about them. One thing I do know is they sell good wire and always send you a little surprise. Not sure what mine was but thinking it was 29awg I tried to wrap a coil. I think it was 32. Haven't tried twisting it yet and see what I come out with.

No they don't make it. "
We aim to bring good quality mesh and mesh products to end consumers.

We source our supplies from major manufacturers and traders based in the UK and Europe."

And they are the "Mesh company" not "Vape Mesh" Their main product is wire mesh for all uses.

 

[VNeil]

As someone who not only meets and likely exceeds your stated qualifications, I'd say your failure is not understanding that the TC algorithm can ask the input question in more than one way:

(1) What is the maximum power that the device may use to heat the coil?

(2) What is the maximum amount of energy per second that the device may use to heat the coil?

(3) What is the maximum current that the device may use to heat the coil?

(4) What is the maximum voltage that the device may use to heat the coil?

Etc.

So many ways to do it, just that one approach doesn't fit your idealistic preference doesn't mean its wrong. Rather, it just means you're yet another engineer with too strong of opinions on things that don't matter.

As to why they are likely using Joules, since TC is using Joules heating, the conversion of electrical energy to thermal energy is based on Joules, not Watts.

Now I've heard it all. LOL. Just LOL. The standard definition of a Joule is one watt-second, among other things you infer. A joule is a watt, expended for exactly one second. No more, no less. It has nothing to do with thermal energy vs electrical energy. Actually they are convertible into each other. Unfortunately there is absolutely no time element in that setting, therefore it is meaningless. So really, that setting is watts. Nothing but watts. Except to the marketing guy that figured out everyone would think otherwise if he redefined joules. And it's obvious here that a whole lot of people bought into that. Just LOL. OK, I'm out of here. This was an amazing display of fanboyism. Seriously, over and out.