SXmini M Class (TEMP CONTROL)
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I've had no problem with the Kanger OCC nickel coil, but i still haven't figured out why my rba gets wonky sometimes. However, I'm not sure if you have the regular subtank or the mini. The mini rba is quite different from the regular subtank rba. For example, the connection point of the 510 pin to the build deck is much thinner on the mini rba. Anyway, Kanger OCC nickel coil is working fine on the SXM so far, just wish it was lower resistance to match my preferred build (e.g., around .08 ohms).
That's not necessarily true. The initial signal can change amplitude for a number of reasons, the electronic circuitry in general an algorithm built into the firmware for start up, and obviously the 4 different modes. Yes there is a fixed width pulse of about 1ms duration every 20ms and there is another primary pulse of about 18ms duration that varies in frequency. There is no amplitude change occurring when we're firing the device that I see once past start up / past the initial 2 sec. The only thing I see that's maintaining the temperature is an increase or decrease in frequency of the 18ms main signal. I would need to put it back on the scope to get an exact period on that signal but I'll just estimate it at 18ms duration.
You even state this in your picture you linked. "As the liquid dries the impulses fire at slower rate, depicting that less voltage is necessary to maintain the coil at temp."
Firing at a slower rate is decreasing the frequency not amplitude. Depicting less voltage is necessary by decreasing the frequency of the main signal, it's not decreasing the amplitude of that signal.
But like I said elsewhere I don't care if it works on PWM, PFM, PAM or Propane as long as it keeps working as it has I'm happy and think I'll exit the techy conversation at this point.
And I seen your other about a pic so I grabbed one. Search for "PFM signal" there's a lot of them out there like this.
It's definitely PFM, but I wouldn't rule out that the modulation is not dependent on the Joules setting. In order to figure that out, we'd need someone to measure the area under the curve at different Joule settings for a fixed configuration. That's one concern I had with pbusardo's review, which is that he was only looking at voltage in his scope captures. With PFM, differing intensity in modulation could affect how much power is delivered to the load (e.g., Powerful might operate different in PFM versus Watts mode, as the power delivered is not merely dependent on Voltage, but also the modulation).
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are you guys saying it uses pwm? I thought only cheap stuff used that. I do not get any rattlesnake. I really want a black face one too.
wanted to mention mine suffered a hard drop but still works let alone not even scratched.
ot: firebird assuming you have not ignored me wondering if you are an attorney? I was, retired
the new board will just take getting used to.
wanted to mention mine suffered a hard drop but still works let alone not even scratched.
ot: firebird assuming you have not ignored me wondering if you are an attorney? I was, retired
the new board will just take getting used to.
We'd been discussing what the most accurate terminology is to use.
All temperature limiting devices use some type of oscillation of the power signal to maintain a certain set limit.
I think the consensus is it's PFM but Dam718 thinks it's PAM.
IDK maybe an EE will chime in and tell us all definitively what the correct terminology is.
But to me it PFM "Pretty Flippin Mazing"
Well I am now using my brand new Lemo 2 which had first gone through the ultrasonic cleaning just to be sure I would be removing any oils or chemicals that may be on the unit. I didn't see anything, but it is probably a good practice with new stuff that you will be heating up and pulling through your lungs. I must say that I am impressed with the quality considering it is a relatively inexpensive mod. My wire also went for an ultrasonic bath to remove any possible foul tastes.
I built it using 28ga NI200 on a 3mm rod, 7 wraps, using the coil building technique that Phil just used in his SX M class video using the coil master. Worked like a charm with nicely spaced coils. I wrapped the coil on the atty screw heads and not in the post holes. I made sure they were well wrapped around the screw and very tight. My Eleaf resistance checker was showing a .13 build. I am not so trustworthy with that checker for accuracy with such a low build. The base resistance came out to .090 ohms on the SX after letting it sit for a few mins afterwards. I then let it sit for a while more and rechecked it at .090 ohms again. I did it again a few mins later and had the same result. I am using it at 14J in powerful mode with temp set at 410F. Been using it now for about 30 mins with Nicoticket Strawnilla 3mg nicotine with fully open airflow doing lung hits. I normally use a max VG mix, but this stuff is 50/50 PG/VG and I thought I would give it a try with TC.
I picked the 410F after running it at around 480F and watching it to see where TC kicked in. It was right around the 410F setting so that is why I chose that. My thoughts are to bring up the temp to match the limits of the ejuice and not higher since it would be just wasting ejuice with no additional benefit. Holding down the fire button and watching the temp on the SX showed the ramp up and it hitting 410F. It never went above the 410F after repeating the process a few times after a minute pause between. I then set the temp to 400F and watched the SX. It went to the 400F and tried to maintain it with some peaks reaching 408F and then backing down to 400F again and again. I find the 410F setting to work better. Running it at 22J was just as good with a little more warmth. Then I tried it at 28J and felt the additional 6J was just not needed. I brought it up to 32J, 40J, and then to 50J. Watching the temperature display I saw the temperature jump up to as high as 450F and then go back down to 410F bouncing around in between. What that is telling me is that at the higher Joules settings the SX is doing its best to try and keep it to my setting of 410F but because of the additional power I am asking it to do it is not regulating as well as it does when I use my normal 14-22J settings. I wish Phil tried to use the lower Joules settings during his testing. I think you will find a more consistent regulation in the lower Joules settings and letting the SX work based on the temperature setting you have set. It just seemed to be fighting with the high power and trying to regulate the temperature. It could just be the physics of the hot coil not cooling fast enough with such high rapid pulses of Joules being applied to it. I also am not experiencing any rattlesnaking like other devices that use PWM. I know that it is pulsing using some advanced technology, but it is not the same as PWM from my experience.
I must say that this combination with the SX Mini M Class and the Lemo 2 is the best thing since sliced bread! Loving it!
After letting it cool again for about 15 mins and setting the base resistance again, guess what? It is reading .090 ohms again. I took the atty completely off the mod and put it back on. It read .092. I must say that I am again very impressed with this technology.
I built it using 28ga NI200 on a 3mm rod, 7 wraps, using the coil building technique that Phil just used in his SX M class video using the coil master. Worked like a charm with nicely spaced coils. I wrapped the coil on the atty screw heads and not in the post holes. I made sure they were well wrapped around the screw and very tight. My Eleaf resistance checker was showing a .13 build. I am not so trustworthy with that checker for accuracy with such a low build. The base resistance came out to .090 ohms on the SX after letting it sit for a few mins afterwards. I then let it sit for a while more and rechecked it at .090 ohms again. I did it again a few mins later and had the same result. I am using it at 14J in powerful mode with temp set at 410F. Been using it now for about 30 mins with Nicoticket Strawnilla 3mg nicotine with fully open airflow doing lung hits. I normally use a max VG mix, but this stuff is 50/50 PG/VG and I thought I would give it a try with TC.
I picked the 410F after running it at around 480F and watching it to see where TC kicked in. It was right around the 410F setting so that is why I chose that. My thoughts are to bring up the temp to match the limits of the ejuice and not higher since it would be just wasting ejuice with no additional benefit. Holding down the fire button and watching the temp on the SX showed the ramp up and it hitting 410F. It never went above the 410F after repeating the process a few times after a minute pause between. I then set the temp to 400F and watched the SX. It went to the 400F and tried to maintain it with some peaks reaching 408F and then backing down to 400F again and again. I find the 410F setting to work better. Running it at 22J was just as good with a little more warmth. Then I tried it at 28J and felt the additional 6J was just not needed. I brought it up to 32J, 40J, and then to 50J. Watching the temperature display I saw the temperature jump up to as high as 450F and then go back down to 410F bouncing around in between. What that is telling me is that at the higher Joules settings the SX is doing its best to try and keep it to my setting of 410F but because of the additional power I am asking it to do it is not regulating as well as it does when I use my normal 14-22J settings. I wish Phil tried to use the lower Joules settings during his testing. I think you will find a more consistent regulation in the lower Joules settings and letting the SX work based on the temperature setting you have set. It just seemed to be fighting with the high power and trying to regulate the temperature. It could just be the physics of the hot coil not cooling fast enough with such high rapid pulses of Joules being applied to it. I also am not experiencing any rattlesnaking like other devices that use PWM. I know that it is pulsing using some advanced technology, but it is not the same as PWM from my experience.
I must say that this combination with the SX Mini M Class and the Lemo 2 is the best thing since sliced bread! Loving it!
After letting it cool again for about 15 mins and setting the base resistance again, guess what? It is reading .090 ohms again. I took the atty completely off the mod and put it back on. It read .092. I must say that I am again very impressed with this technology.
No, I'm not an attorney, I was a private investigator for a corporate law firm for 10 years. Then had a 'change of life moment' 5 years ago and went back to college and got an electrical engineering degree.
You fought a few hints at legalese? I still accidentally us the vernacular at times on accident, while typing. I'm also careful not to say something I can't back up without full disclosure.
To the board in taking the side of silence until I see more proof on either direction. Its a form of pwm no matter how you slice it. From what I've seen in the thread in siding with PFM. However, I never go with my final answer from one source. In the interest of experience I work in both IT and biomed(prosthetics and mobility equipment)
But the oscillation lends itself to a better accuracy and smoother finished product. Which is what were all after.
In power mode its straight dc though.
They put in the oscillation purposely.
You know to, improve where evolv fell short(was that out loud?)
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Glad your liking your new device. I think what you say about how to setup the temp / joules to be the best approach. If you read the comments on Pbusardo's review .... Kickers left him a comment explaining to him pretty much what you just stated. It's worth reading. On the Lemo 2 I haven't really looked at it but hearing a lot of good things. One thing I'm curious about is the top fill hole. How does it seal when you close it is there a rubber washer or something that keeps it from leaking or just stainless on stainless?
^^^vlad- just get one... It vapes better than any tank I've used on it so far....
Sqr
Kf4
Erlkoengin
Aquav2
Silverplay
The lemo2, In tc mode, with a 0.07ohm build using 26g ni200 has them all beat! Running mine in powerful 0-us at 42.3j and 460degrees
Sqr
Kf4
Erlkoengin
Aquav2
Silverplay
The lemo2, In tc mode, with a 0.07ohm build using 26g ni200 has them all beat! Running mine in powerful 0-us at 42.3j and 460degrees
We'd been discussing what the most accurate terminology is to use.
All temperature limiting devices use some type of oscillation of the power signal to maintain a certain set limit.
I think the consensus is it's PFM but Dam718 thinks it's PAM.
IDK maybe an EE will chime in and tell us all definitively what the correct terminology is.
But to me it PFM "Pretty Flippin Mazing"
Well, I'm not only an EE, but also a former modem designer.
First thing I would say is that PAM and PFM are not exclusive of each other. In addition, one can use PAM to create a PFM signal, because the analog signal used for PAM can have its own frequency modulation component. Regardless, what's clear from the O-Scope capture is that we are not dealing with standard PWM, in which the duty cycle is adjusted to deliver power. Rather, what we can see from the O-Scope capture is that power is delivered at varying intervals. To really understand what's going on, I'd probably need a data capture so I could figure out how much power is being delivered at each interval, as well as the variations in time between such intervals. For example, if raising the Joules decreases the time between intervals, that could mean more power is being delivered in a shorter period of time than a lower Joules setting. Amplitude is relevant too, but it's obvious from the O-Scope capture that it's the adjustment in interval spacing that is changing how much power is being delivered to the atomizer.
I don't want any leaks or condensation. I've just bought two Kanger Subtank Mini's and pretty much love them over the Foggers I had before. But now the wife is using the Foggers and I still have to jack with building them and their a pita plus always have condensation under them. I just don't want any leaks and these subtanks have been perfect so far. But I need ot get at least 1 more RTA.
FWIW, I am an electrical engineer, but I don't tend to advertise that much because we aren't infallible. My field of expertise has shifted to IT and management over the past 20 years so my EE background can be challenged at any time and I have to do research just like anyone else to counter this arguments. It's apparently difficult to understand the concept of the constant carrier signal at 50Hz. It's always there no matter what. This is classic behavior of a PAM device. Keep in mind, typically PFM and PAM are used for data transmission and have a signal decoder on the other end of the transmission. In this application the decoder is our mouth! LoL
I should say, rather than decoder the correct term would be "demodulator"
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I should say, rather than decoder the correct term would be "demodulator"
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I use drippers ALOT and am only recently migrating back to tanks with them improving on my style of vaping.
But a little condensation never bothered me because of the dripped thing.
Anyway, it uses brings to seal top and bottom, and mine hasn't flooded; but, ice only had it for two weeks.
I do get a small amount of condensation though between the tank and the 510plate thing. (full disclosure)
Not enough for cause of alarm but its not bone dry either.
I have no idea how it works, but can we say it works good? one thing about yihi chips is they are accurate. I bet that is why it kept reading the same when cool.
well, if you are an ee that is even better for this thread! I have a scope,mm and such but I am no ee.
I put everything in the ultrasonic too but can I put plastics materials? I thought tobh was so good I never heard of lemo. I must live in a cave. you guys are extremely thorough about this stuff. all I know is use my kanger coil. I do wonder what having it set way to high is causing me? it seems if I go until the coil is at it's limit I get better flavor and more clouds. at appropriate settings there is not much for me. however at 5520f, 36j it is kicking it to about 220f. I do not know what that is telling me and what I should set it at. I appreciate you guys bear with me as I do not know very much about how this works. dna40 is easier but obviously does not do as much. that is if it works at all. okay, sorry I just said that just have bad luck. no luck needed with yihi apparently.
well, if you are an ee that is even better for this thread! I have a scope,mm and such but I am no ee.
I put everything in the ultrasonic too but can I put plastics materials? I thought tobh was so good I never heard of lemo. I must live in a cave. you guys are extremely thorough about this stuff. all I know is use my kanger coil. I do wonder what having it set way to high is causing me? it seems if I go until the coil is at it's limit I get better flavor and more clouds. at appropriate settings there is not much for me. however at 5520f, 36j it is kicking it to about 220f. I do not know what that is telling me and what I should set it at. I appreciate you guys bear with me as I do not know very much about how this works. dna40 is easier but obviously does not do as much. that is if it works at all. okay, sorry I just said that just have bad luck. no luck needed with yihi apparently.
As confirmed here:
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is this graph specifically related to the temp function? or is it for the watts (kanthal) mode?
No doubt about it the DNA40 works. Just not the same as the SX350J.
I will continue to say this over and over. Regardless of the technical mumbo jumbo we throw around, we are trying to ascertain factual data from this device. The truth is, it vapes AMAZING both in power and TC modes. Don't let any of the semantics of us trying to reverse engineer the signal to figure out how they're doing it let you think otherwise. This is an awesome machine.
haha, my first job as an EE was with the Navy. PFM meant "Pure F-ing Magic" in our sailor terms
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I will continue to say this over and over. Regardless of the technical mumbo jumbo we throw around, we are trying to ascertain factual data from this device. The truth is, it vapes AMAZING both in power and TC modes. Don't let any of the semantics of us trying to reverse engineer the signal to figure out how they're doing it let you think otherwise. This is an awesome machine.
haha, my first job as an EE was with the Navy. PFM meant "Pure F-ing Magic" in our sailor terms
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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