Synthetic Nicotine

[wetclay]

I subscribe to Chemnovatic's newsletter and today I received this email announcing they are offering synthetic nicotine. Interesting development! Link below.
Donno if this is a way out of regulatory hurdles.
We are making Synthetic Nicotine!

Probably some remember the Chinese synthetic nicotine which turned out to be not. But chemnovatic is a reputable company, so hopefully this is a positive development.

 

[Eskie]

nvm

 

[Falconeer]

I tried to read up on it but when I clicked the link (I'm in the EU zone) got the message that they only sell to Business Customers.

 

[Rossum]

Donno if this is a way out of regulatory hurdles.

Perhaps it might be in some parts of the world, but it surely isn't in the USA. Ten years ago, the FDA tried to kill vaping by classifying it as an unapproved drug delivery system. The only thing that saved vaping since then was the Sottera case in which the judge told 'em, "Nope, it's a tobacco product." The rules for tobacco products are actually more lenient than for drugs. Now if someone starts making vape juice with synthetic nic and claims it's not a tobacco product, which would then be technically correct, the FDA would again treat it as a drug delivery system that can't be sold without approval as such.

 

[Electrodave]

The DEA would have to schedule it before the FDA had any authority. This is a big part of why they lost the Sottera case. The court wouldn't call it a drug partially because the DEA had not scheduled nicotine. The DEA may well refuse to schedule synthetic nicotine.

 

[Rossum]

The DEA would have to schedule it before the FDA had any authority. This is a big part of why they lost the Sottera case. The court wouldn't call it a drug partially because the DEA had not scheduled nicotine. The DEA may well refuse to schedule synthetic nicotine.

The Controlled Substances Act allows either the DEA or the FDA to "schedule" a drug.

 

[Electrodave]

If the FDA scheduled synthetic nicotine, that would open up a food service sized can of worms.

 

[Rossum]

If the FDA scheduled synthetic nicotine, that would open up a food service sized can of worms.

Why? What product is made with synthetic nicotine?

 

[Electrodave]

If the molecule is even close to identical, then it's still nicotine. The DEA treats synthetic THC the same as plant derived THC. One measure would be--can it be patented?

 

[AttyPops]

I subscribe to Chemnovatic's newsletter and today I received this email announcing they are offering synthetic nicotine. Interesting development! Link below.
Donno if this is a way out of regulatory hurdles.
We are making Synthetic Nicotine!

Probably some remember the Chinese synthetic nicotine which turned out to be not. But chemnovatic is a reputable company, so hopefully this is a positive development.

So Polish chemists can make this stuff, but USA chemists can't/wont?

Meanwhile we have trace "nastiness" in our nic from TSNAs? As market volume increases, costs should go down. It has always been cheaper to extract nic, vs make it. So it has been cost prohibitive. But if there's a market, heck, why don't others do it?

I wonder what it costs per liter.

 

[AttyPops]

If the molecule is even close to identical, then it's still nicotine. The DEA treats synthetic THC the same as plant derived THC. One measure would be--can it be patented?

They could probably just put exceptions in for tomato, potato, eggplant and any other "natural source" of nic.

 

[wetclay]

Perhaps it might be in some parts of the world, but it surely isn't in the USA. Ten years ago, the FDA tried to kill vaping by classifying it as an unapproved drug delivery system. The only thing that saved vaping since then was the Sottera case in which the judge told 'em, "Nope, it's a tobacco product." The rules for tobacco products are actually more lenient than for drugs. Now if someone starts making vape juice with synthetic nic and claims it's not a tobacco product, which would then be technically correct, the FDA would again treat it as a drug delivery system that can't be sold without approval as such.

Synthetic nic is obviously not a tobacco product. It is not a drug also as long as the manufacturer does not claim and market it as such, i.e. a smoking cessation treatment. This might (only might) open up other regulatory pathways to regulate it.
My guess, authorities will just classify it as a "tobacco related product" and deal with it as other tobacco products.

 

[wetclay]

I tried to read up on it but when I clicked the link (I'm in the EU zone) got the message that they only sell to Business Customers.

Yes. This the b2b website. And they only sell to businesses. If it catches wind, it will be available from resellers soon probably.

 

[fourmedallions]

My first question is, how much is this going to cost? My second is, how long before the government lunges in and throws it under the 'tobacco' umbrella? It's a good idea. I'm just not optimistic that it would manage to lie beneath the government's radar.

 

[zoiDman]

Perhaps it might be in some parts of the world, but it surely isn't in the USA. Ten years ago, the FDA tried to kill vaping by classifying it as an unapproved drug delivery system. The only thing that saved vaping since then was the Sottera case in which the judge told 'em, "Nope, it's a tobacco product." The rules for tobacco products are actually more lenient than for drugs. Now if someone starts making vape juice with synthetic nic and claims it's not a tobacco product, which would then be technically correct, the FDA would again treat it as a drug delivery system that can't be sold without approval as such.

This is, Unfortunately, the Double Edged Sword that we live Under in the US.

By being a Tobacco Product, we are afforded the Classification of "Recreational Tobacco Use".

But if something Isn't a Tobacco Product, then it falls down the "Drug" hole. And the Almost Insurmountable Requirements to bring it to Market.

Truly Damned if you Do. Damned if you Don't.

 

[Rossum]

So Polish chemists can make this stuff, but USA chemists can't/wont?

Meanwhile we have trace "nastiness" in our nic from TSNAs? As market volume increases, costs should go down. It has always been cheaper to extract nic, vs make it. So it has been cost prohibitive. But if there's a market, heck, why don't others do it?

I wonder what it costs per liter.

Is there a market? The fact that someone offers a product does not mean that there is a substantial market for it,

Oh, and there is a US company offering synthetic nic, but it hasn't had much impact on things:
Next Generation Labs | Synthetic Nicotine

 

[Rossum]

Truly Damned if you Do. Damned if you Don't.

Yep, it's a question of which circle of hell you're condemned to.

 

[zoiDman]

BTW - I wonder what the Price Point is for say 25,000 mg of Synthetic Nicotine?

Same as 100,000 mg of Nicotine which was derived from Tobacco?

 

[zoiDman]

Yep, it's a question of which circle of hell you're condemned to.

I think both You and I are in agreement as to which Road we would rather Go Down.

 

[AttyPops]

Is there a market? The fact that someone offers a product does not mean that there is a substantial market for it,

Oh, and there is a US company offering synthetic nic, but it hasn't had much impact on things:
Next Generation Labs | Synthetic Nicotine

$4,500.00 per kilo (approx 1 liter if I understand it properly) So since we often buy 10% nic in a base, that would be $450.00 per liter for 100mg/ml.

"devoid of many residual tobacco compounds", not all, not "pure". So IDK.

IDK what the pricing is from Poland.