"Tank" type atomizers... For new vapists - how they work.

Status
Not open for further replies.

State O' Flux

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 17, 2013
4,844
4,989
Seattle
[FONT=&] "tank" type atomizers... [/FONT]
[FONT=&]For new vapists - how they work, and why it's a good idea to know this.[/FONT]


Thought I'd throw something up to help relatively new (and some not so new) vapists understand how "tank" type atomizers work. Normally, I use the word "tank" to describe carto tanks... but in this instance, I'll suspend my own personal feelings about the subject, and use the word tank to describe most any clearo, glasso or carto tank - and even some advanced RBAs.

All of the above tank devices are functionally dependent on what's called, a "pressure differential". A fancy term meaning that they use both high or positive (in this context, atmospheric) and low or negative (vacuum or, in this context, less than atmospheric) air pressure to work correctly.

There is high pressure in the air tube that rises to the drip tip and down to the coil head... and out the bottom to the 510/eGo connection. In the tank with the juice - under normal operating conditions... is low pressure.
Still with me? Good.

I can't go further without talking briefly about wicks. Wicks have a few jobs - one of course, to wick juice to the coil so it can be vaporized, and two, the lesser known... to function as a pressure seal. Not a perfect seal mind you... but one with a [FONT=&]slow leak[/FONT], that works both ways.

So, how does negative pressure get in the tank when all around us is positive pressure? Well, that would be dependent on you... drawing on the drip tip. The temporary vacuum you create pulls juice, and that positive pressure you started with in the tank, into the coil head area... and, creates a small vacuum in the tank.
Draw again... more vacuum. Or - fluid level drops... vacuum, theoretically, increases. Not a tremendous amount of vacuum... because most of our "lung generated vacuum" is directed out the coil head tube vent system - and our wick/pressure seal remember - still has that slow leak.

Does the vacuum last forever? No. If you walk away from a tank atty that you were using... for a good while, the vacuum is slowly supplanted by positive pressure. Which is why your atty can be a bit gurgly when you pick it up again... until you reestablish the vacuum with a few draws.
Its also why, if you stand a APV and tank atty on end, and walk away, you may find the 510/eGo positive "well" a bit wet.
That pressure differential (and wick/seal) is why tanks don't leak like sieves - and why, when you refill a tank and introduce positive pressure back into it, they gurgle a bit until a vacuum is reestablished.

And now... back to that [FONT=&]all important[/FONT] wick/seal. If you're using a clearo/glasso of the Kanger BCC variety, it's (very) common to play with wicks. Removing flavor wicks, changing wick thickness and materials - and generally tweaking the pressure differential "seal"... without much thought to the fact [FONT=&]that it functions as a seal[/FONT].
Take out too much and the atty gurgles and even leaks. Add too much, or to "tight" a compression - and you get dry hits - and if a cotton wick, [FONT=&]burnt gym sock flavored[/FONT] hits.

I mentioned earlier that even advanced RBAs (may) use the same physics as a $5 clearo. A Kayfun, and variations and clones of the Kayfun, use pressure differential as well. In fact, when you look at a Kayfun from that perspective, they start to look a lot like a big, shiny and highly "tunable" clearomizer. Same deal with the Squape, the Aqua and numerous other RBAs. Even genesis tanks have a pressure differential, but due to the design of the (typically metal or ceramic) wick not really functioning as a transfer port seal... it's frequently very temporary.

I used to teach this stuff - just in a different application... but the physics apply, and differential pressure is alive and well in your tank atty. Just be thankful I'm not teaching a 4 hour class on it... and you're my student. :laugh:

That's it... take it for what it is, do with it what you will. ;)
 

Bill's Magic Vapor

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 8, 2013
4,493
11,078
USA
Actually, a clear and concise understanding Bernoulli's principle applied to our vaping tank gear. A marvelous treatise State O Flux and an excellent review! This should be required reading on the New Members Forum, and certainly a requirement before the all too common post:

"What's wrong with my ___________. It [leaks, floods, gurgles, burns, tastes funny, won't wick properly], etc."

Thank you for this State O Flux! You should make this into a blog and then I will be happy to refer members to it. Good job!
 

Bill's Magic Vapor

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Feb 8, 2013
4,493
11,078
USA
[FONT=&] "Tank" type atomizers... [/FONT]
[FONT=&]For new vapists - how they work, and why it's a good idea to know this.[/FONT]


Thought I'd throw something up to help relatively new (and some not so new) vapists understand how "tank" type atomizers work. Normally, I use the word "tank" to describe carto tanks... but in this instance, I'll suspend my own personal feelings about the subject, and use the word tank to describe most any clearo, glasso or carto tank - and even some advanced RBAs.

All of the above tank devices are functionally dependent on what's called, a "pressure differential". A fancy term meaning that they use both high or positive (in this context, atmospheric) and low or negative (vacuum or, in this context, less than atmospheric) air pressure to work correctly.

There is high pressure in the air tube that rises to the drip tip and down to the coil head... and out the bottom to the 510/eGo connection. In the tank with the juice - under normal operating conditions... is low pressure.
Still with me? Good.

I can't go further without talking briefly about wicks. Wicks have a few jobs - one of course, to wick juice to the coil so it can be vaporized, and two, the lesser known... to function as a pressure seal. Not a perfect seal mind you... but one with a [FONT=&]slow leak[/FONT], that works both ways.

So, how does negative pressure get in the tank when all around us is positive pressure? Well, that would be dependent on you... drawing on the drip tip. The temporary vacuum you create pulls juice, and that positive pressure you started with in the tank, into the coil head area... and, creates a small vacuum in the tank.
Draw again... more vacuum. Or - fluid level drops... vacuum, theoretically, increases. Not a tremendous amount of vacuum... because most of our "lung generated vacuum" is directed out the coil head tube vent system - and our wick/pressure seal remember - still has that slow leak.

Does the vacuum last forever? No. If you walk away from a tank atty that you were using... for a good while, the vacuum is slowly supplanted by positive pressure. Which is why your atty can be a bit gurgly when you pick it up again... until you reestablish the vacuum with a few draws.
Its also why, if you stand a APV and tank atty on end, and walk away, you may find the 510/eGo positive "well" a bit wet.
That pressure differential (and wick/seal) is why tanks don't leak like sieves - and why, when you refill a tank and introduce positive pressure back into it, they gurgle a bit until a vacuum is reestablished.

And now... back to that [FONT=&]all important[/FONT] wick/seal. If you're using a clearo/glasso of the Kanger BCC variety, it's (very) common to play with wicks. Removing flavor wicks, changing wick thickness and materials - and generally tweaking the pressure differential "seal"... without much thought to the fact [FONT=&]that it functions as a seal[/FONT].
Take out too much and the atty gurgles and even leaks. Add too much, or to "tight" a compression - and you get dry hits - and if a cotton wick, [FONT=&]burnt gym sock flavored[/FONT] hits.

I mentioned earlier that even advanced RBAs (may) use the same physics as a $5 clearo. A Kayfun, and variations and clones of the Kayfun, use pressure differential as well. In fact, when you look at a Kayfun from that perspective, they start to look a lot like a big, shiny and highly "tunable" clearomizer. Same deal with the Squape, the Aqua and numerous other RBAs. Even genesis tanks have a pressure differential, but due to the design of the (typically metal or ceramic) wick not really functioning as a transfer port seal... it's frequently very temporary.

I used to teach this stuff - just in a different application... but the physics apply, and differential pressure is alive and well in your tank atty. Just be thankful I'm not teaching a 4 hour class on it... and you're my student. :laugh:

That's it... take it for what it is, do with it what you will. ;)

The first time I used my Kayfun, I filled it from the top and it did leak. Of course, that's why they added a fill hole with a pressure valve that I still do not use. I used the principles taught here by State O Flux and filled my tank from the top about 3/4 way, and screwed the top piece to the first thread. Immediately, I invert the Kayfun, screw the top fully in to maintain the seal and pressure differential. Yeah, I'll get a drop out of the top sometimes, but my Kayfun will never leak, and many Kayfun users and users of similar toppers complain about this issue all the time, and yet here it is, as outlined above, about how to correct this problem, so it will never happen again. Very nice Post!
 

State O' Flux

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 17, 2013
4,844
4,989
Seattle
The first time I used my Kayfun, I filled it from the top and it did leak. Of course, that's why they added a fill hole with a pressure valve that I still do not use. I used the principles taught here by State O Flux and filled my tank from the top about 3/4 way, and screwed the top piece to the first thread. Immediately, I invert the Kayfun, screw the top fully in to maintain the seal and pressure differential. Yeah, I'll get a drop out of the top sometimes, but my Kayfun will never leak, and many Kayfun users and users of similar toppers complain about this issue all the time, and yet here it is, as outlined above, about how to correct this problem, so it will never happen again. Very nice Post!
Thank you Bill and Jay for the kind words. I appreciate it. I deleted all my old blogs - after review and consideration... they didn't hold up very well ;-)

If you think this will serve the purpose intended... then I'll put it up.

I do exactly the same thing Bill... Genuine or clone, they get filled from the top. I've got it down to no muss - no fuss.
Still gurgle a bit for the first few draws, but as I've been playing with both vertical and horizontal coils and a variety of wicking materials lately... that's to be expected from the "failures". :laugh:

Thanks again for taking the time to read it... and I'll put it up on my blog page today. Cheers!
 

Thunderball

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
May 5, 2013
3,026
4,036
65
Grayson, Georgia
Well... you is one, ain't you? :laugh:

Yeah.....I rather like it myself. :thumbs:

I actually ran in here and posted my previous comment real quick before I read your post. I just read it. That explaination is like...Wow !
Agree with Mr. Wizard....this should be a sticky for newbies...in fact, I think after the required 5 post minimum, this should be required reading with one of those check boxes at the end saying its been read and understood.

That would keep 10 new threads a day from happining.........but then we wouldnt have an excuse to go in and "save the day"..;)

Good stuff my friend !
 

State O' Flux

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 17, 2013
4,844
4,989
Seattle
That would keep 10 new threads a day from happining.........but then we wouldnt have an excuse to go in and "save the day"..;)

Good stuff my friend !
And if everyone read this book...
pRS1-11616521w345.jpg


...and bought a DMM - we'd have practically no reasons at all to have our daily -

  • "What do you mean you don't know what the resistance is?"
  • "This is how your stuff works"
Get-togethers - with you, Bill, Bad, Rick, Train, Myrany, Mike, peraspera, Vapo... and me. :laugh:

(apologies if I left anyone out... my memory blows chunks)
 

InTheClouds

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 18, 2013
809
3,112
63
Murphy, NC, USA
Wonderful post State, a great refresher for those things I learned in Science class all those years ago from Mr. Howell! That combined with my electronics training in the Navy almost as many years ago, I am having a blast building micro coils. While many things have changed over the years thank goodness Ohm's Law never changes. Even better than achieving a great vape was knowing that as a 53 year old Grandmother I've still got it!
 

State O' Flux

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 17, 2013
4,844
4,989
Seattle
Happy to help with those questions wedoitall... and I did ultimately include it in my blog - although oddly, I tend to utilize this thread more than I do the blog version.
Unlike this un-editable thread however, I may be rewriting the blog soon, to go into more detail and to clarify a few sentences I feel are... borderline iffy.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread