Vacuum?

[beckdg]

alien Traveler" data-source="post: 18628957" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

I am sorry if I was impolite. In my, may be alien, standards my post was OK, but in no way I should insist on accepting these standards forum-wide. My apologies.

But anyway, I do not see any point in your last two posts. They do not belong to this thread. They are about different thing.

I believe differently.

You made the statement that capillary action is superior.

We are discussing.

You made points.

I made counter points.

My counter point is that regardless what you call it, sometimes introducing a pressure differential or direct application of juice to the coil is absolutely necessary.

Of course this is dependent on the equipment and the vaping style.

But capillary action, by any means, simply cannot always stand on its own to supply juice adequately under every situation.

Sometimes a pressure differential or a direct application to the coil are absolutely obligatory to continuing to vape.

Apology accepted and greatly appreciated.

Tapatyped

 

[Alien Traveler]

I believe differently.

You made the statement that capillary action is superior.

We are discussing.

You made points.

I made counter points.

My counter point is that regardless what you call it, sometimes introducing a pressure differential or direct application of juice to the coil is absolutely necessary.

Of course this is dependent on the equipment and the vaping style.

But capillary action, by any means, simply cannot always stand on its own to supply juice adequately under every situation.

Sometimes a pressure differential or a direct application to the coil are absolutely obligatory to continuing to vape.

Apology accepted and greatly appreciated.

Tapatyped

Have you read my post:

It was my opinion. I started the thread because thinking alone is boring. Now, after more thorough thinking (thanks for all the posts) I changed my opinion, now it stays like this:
We do not know, what is more important, but we should not bother to much with it - both of these forces are working on us.

Too much attention was paid in the thread to terminology.

 

[SteveS45]

Yes, it is, just with the weirdest liquid feed setup I've ever seen. That Gragas looks like a beauty. I'm stumped as I've never used a configuration like that but how do you control the juice flow between the upper and lower chambers?

It is a pump you push down on the top portion and drip on the coils.

 

[MMW]

@Eskie isn't that a squonker? The Gragas is like this

There was an atty called the big dripper that you could also do something similar with. Push down and feed the coils/wick.

Do you like the gragas?

 

[SteveS45]

It is OK at first I was not pleased with it because I was using it with a simple configuration and I did not have the tank installed. After speaking with Omier they gave me a couple of tips and I added the tank and it works better. I am not really into dripping but thought it would be good for testing my DIY recipes.

 

[beckdg]

But capillary action is stronger and it will dominate all these small changes in pressure.

Now, after more thorough thinking (thanks for all the posts) I changed my opinion, now it stays like this:
We do not know, what is more important, but we should not bother to much with it - both of these forces are working on us.

Direct dripping is not obligatory for dripper.

I already made my point - capillary action works for drippers.

<snip>

Should we continue arguing for the sake of arguing?

But anyway, I do not see any point in your last two posts. They do not belong to this thread. They are about different thing.

Have you read my post:

Yes.

In succession.

And I stand by my statement...

You made the statement that capillary action is superior.

We are discussing.

You made points.

I made counter points.

My counter point is that regardless what you call it, sometimes introducing a pressure differential or direct application of juice to the coil is absolutely necessary.

Pretty simple, really.

Tapatyped

 

[Eskie]

I was unaware of that Gragas design. Now I understand it.

 

[Alien Traveler]

Yes.

In succession.

And I stand by my statement...



Pretty simple, really.

Tapatyped

OK

 

[bwh79]

So, I think it depends on what kind of "tank" you are using. In a Gennie-style tank, capillary action of the wicking material is indeed the primary, and perhaps only method of moving liquid from the juice reservoir up to the coil for vaporization. In a Kayfun-style tank, however, it's just the opposite, and capillary action only takes over once the juice is already inside of the "evaporation chamber." How it gets into that chamber, is a different story.

When you draw upon the mouthpiece, it causes air to move through the evaporation chamber, creating a low-pressure zone inside the chamber (see: Bernoulli's principle). The air bubble inside the juice reservoir begins to expand, due to this pressure differential (the air bubble is at atmospheric pressure, and the reservoir where it is contained is open via the juice channels to the evaporation chamber, where the pressure is reduced), which forces juice out of the reservoir, through the juice channels and into the evaporation chamber. Once inside the evaporation chamber (and only then), the juice makes contact with the wick and capillary action takes over, causing juice to flow up the wick and to the coil. When you release your draw, the air in the evaporation chamber returns to atmospheric pressure. The air bubble inside the reservoir, now at less than the atmospheric pressure inside the chamber, contracts and in doing so "pulls" air from the chamber into the reservoir (creating those little bubbles you see rising up from the juice ports after taking a draw), thus equalizing the pressure once more.

 

[Robino1]

So, I think it depends on what kind of "tank" you are using. In a Gennie-style tank, capillary action of the wicking material is indeed the primary, and perhaps only method of moving liquid from the juice reservoir up to the coil for vaporization. In a Kayfun-style tank, however, it's just the opposite, and capillary action only takes over once the juice is already inside of the "evaporation chamber." How it gets into that chamber, is a different story.

When you draw upon the mouthpiece, it causes air to move through the evaporation chamber, creating a low-pressure zone inside the chamber (see: Bernoulli's principle). The air bubble inside the juice reservoir begins to expand, due to this pressure differential (the air bubble is at atmospheric pressure, and the reservoir where it is contained is open via the juice channels to the evaporation chamber, where the pressure is reduced), which forces juice out of the reservoir, through the juice channels and into the evaporation chamber. Once inside the evaporation chamber (and only then), the juice makes contact with the wick and capillary action takes over, causing juice to flow up the wick and to the coil. When you release your draw, the air in the evaporation chamber returns to atmospheric pressure. The air bubble inside the reservoir, now at less than the atmospheric pressure inside the chamber, contracts and in doing so "pulls" air from the chamber into the reservoir (creating those little bubbles you see rising up from the juice ports after taking a draw), thus equalizing the pressure once more.

^^ This ^^

I like watching my bubbles rise. I know I won't be getting that dreaded dry hit

 

[Alien Traveler]

^^ This ^^

I like watching my bubbles rise. I know I won't be getting that dreaded dry hit

Bubbles... Nice bathtub... Good bourbon... Wife arguing goodness of bourbon vs goodness of a married life... What could be better?

 

[beckdg]

So, I think it depends on what kind of "tank" you are using. In a Gennie-style tank, capillary action of the wicking material is indeed the primary, and perhaps only method of moving liquid from the juice reservoir up to the coil for vaporization. In a Kayfun-style tank, however, it's just the opposite, and capillary action only takes over once the juice is already inside of the "evaporation chamber." How it gets into that chamber, is a different story.

When you draw upon the mouthpiece, it causes air to move through the evaporation chamber, creating a low-pressure zone inside the chamber (see: Bernoulli's principle). The air bubble inside the juice reservoir begins to expand, due to this pressure differential (the air bubble is at atmospheric pressure, and the reservoir where it is contained is open via the juice channels to the evaporation chamber, where the pressure is reduced), which forces juice out of the reservoir, through the juice channels and into the evaporation chamber. Once inside the evaporation chamber (and only then), the juice makes contact with the wick and capillary action takes over, causing juice to flow up the wick and to the coil. When you release your draw, the air in the evaporation chamber returns to atmospheric pressure. The air bubble inside the reservoir, now at less than the atmospheric pressure inside the chamber, contracts and in doing so "pulls" air from the chamber into the reservoir (creating those little bubbles you see rising up from the juice ports after taking a draw), thus equalizing the pressure once more.

Fantastic post.

Though, it should be pointed out that when gennies were all the rage, the common practice was to invert the gennie to wet the wick when capillary action simply couldn't keep up.

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk

 

[skoony]

edit

 

[Baditude]

Good explanation on the topic:

"Thought I'd throw something up to help relatively new (and some not so new) vapists understand how "tank" type, or RTA atomizers work.
Bear in mind, in this instance, the word tank can be used to describe most any clearo, glasso or carto tank... as well as RTAs.

The common denominator is that all of the above tank devices are functionally dependent on what's called, a "pressure differential". A techno term meaning that both high, or positive (in this context, atmospheric) and low or negative (vacuum or, in this context, less than atmospheric) air pressure are in play." More here:​

Tank type atomizers... For new vapists - how they work by ECF's State o' Flux

 

[SteveS45]

The term vacuum is often misunderstood and consequently misapplied when discussing pressure measurements and choosing pressure transducers. By definition, vacuum is a space that is partially exhausted (as to the highest degree possible) by artificial means (such as an air pump). This definition is referring to a high or hard vacuum.

 

[beckdg]

The term vacuum is often misunderstood and consequently misapplied when discussing pressure measurements and choosing pressure transducers. By definition, vacuum is a space that is partially exhausted (as to the highest degree possible) by artificial means (such as an air pump). This definition is referring to a high or hard vacuum.

And "literally" literally means "figuratively".

2
: in effect : virtually <will literally turn the world upside down to combat cruelty or injustice — Norman Cousins>

Source: Definition of LITERALLY

So basically you're saying exactly what I've been saying all along.

Language is eventually defined by its usage regardless whether you like it or not.

Tapatyped

 

[SteveS45]

To have a vacuum it must be devoid of all air and low pressure does not equal a vacuum......... Literally

 

[Eskie]

To have a vacuum it must be devoid of all air and low pressure does not equal a vacuum......... Literally

When I vacuum the carpet there's still air in the room.

 

[SteveS45]

A vacuum uses moving air to create suction and just because it is referred to as a vacuum it does not create a vacuum just suction. Would you rather it be literally called a sucker?

 

[Bunnykiller]

^^ This ^^

I like watching my bubbles rise. I know I won't be getting that dreaded dry hit

Robin... by chance, do you like Champagne??