Temporary are we getting it thread

[a2dcovert]

I don't want to put pressure on anybody. Just throwing out some ideas. Most of the early work was done by a few briliant minds and ideas abound. So back to one original idea in that the arthurs would scan the thread to move over posts that they think are applicable to the amin theme.

I am not taking claim to any organizational leadership roll. I'm just trying to act as the catalyst to the best path for our goal.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

The next decision is whether to make it (1) outline style, with bullet-point ideas under topic subsections; (2) digest style, a chronological summary of points made as things developed; or (3) FAQ/'catechism' style, with the major questions and answers.

What I had in mind is more like #2, digest style. Maybe start out with a brief summary of why the thread exists, followed by some "eyewitness" accounts of the "something missing" syndrome (Stubby has pointed out the 1st 25 as substantial, others scattered around. Needs to be as well rounded as possible for the sake of readers seriously trying to identify themselves with original posters). Then, the theory and process of identifying WTA, it's testing and results. Finally, where we go from here summary.
The majority will probably be reposts and excerpts along with supporting commentary and appropriate links.......
These are my thoughts. I'm sure others will have more and/or different, I just thought I'd throw something out there. All I really want to do is sit back, snus and baste in the thankfulness that it's all over for me. Man, what a nightmare. The farther removed from it I am, the clearer I feel my own desperation in those days.
Good luck, Madame. Long hours, low pay...the job is yours, should you so choose to accept it. This messege will self-destruct in 10 seconds....9....8....7....6.........
[/quote]

I don't want to put pressure on anybody. Just throwing out some ideas. Most of the early work was done by a few briliant minds and ideas abound. So back to one original idea in that the arthurs would scan the thread to move over posts that they think are applicable to the amin theme.

I am not taking claim to any organizational leadership roll. I'm just trying to act as the catalyst to the best path for our goal.

Good idea, Boss. Maybe we should move some stuff to a designated area, let MP organize and edit, then see what she comes up with . Then, again, I was trying to remain as slack as possible......this may not work......

 

[rolygate]

Hey people,

Don't want to intrude, but we have a whole new site section opening soon for these quality types of articles or possibly projects.

It's not ready to roll yet, but on the other hand you might have some editing-down to do anyway? Why not start a new thread and have a couple of posts made in it by the thread 'manager' (MP maybe?) and left blank. The first post could have a link to the old thread, as well.

You can then start to rebuild the material locally, in an RTF (Wordpad) file or similar, and when there is a 'section' complete, have a Mod edit the post you want the material in, and place the text into the post. Alternatively the rebuilding can take place in subsequent posts in the new thread then be merged back into the first posts in the thread.

If you imagine a standard web page layout, with areas for text, graphics and menus, that will be how we will ideally rearrange some of the fabulous material here that is currently scattered around in the various threads. This isn't far off now. Just a heads-up

It seems clear that this material should be organised and published as a prominent article and guide, though you should discuss what you would like to achieve with it, of course.

Chris

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Thanks RG, sounds like what we'd like . .....oh, I'm so confused....sounds complicated.....just figured out how to copy and paste....oh....think think....wordpad??..I don't even have spellcheck....think....got it, toss the ball......yeah..that's it....Madame Psychosis can get things rolling. ...quick..run screaming from the room and tell everybody the building's on fire....

 

[Stubby]

Thanks RG, sounds like what we'd like . .....oh, I'm so confused....sounds complicated.....just figured out how to copy and paste....oh....think think....wordpad??..I don't even have spellcheck....think....got it, toss the ball......yeah..that's it....Madame Psychosis can get things rolling. ...quick..run screaming from the room and tell everybody the building's on fire....

You're not alone on that one, I'm running right beside you. This is left to more competent hands than you or I.

One thing I would suggest, as this thread is still open is to put it together here. For the moment this thread is as good as any to brain storm ideas on how to do it.

 

[olderthandirt]

Thanks RG, sounds like what we'd like . .....oh, I'm so confused....sounds complicated.....just figured out how to copy and paste....oh....think think....wordpad??..I don't even have spellcheck....think....got it, toss the ball......yeah..that's it....Madame Psychosis can get things rolling. ...quick..run screaming from the room and tell everybody the building's on fire....

You're not alone on that one, I'm running fight beside you. This is left to more competent hands than you or I.

One thing I would suggest, as this thread is still open is to put it together here. For the moment this thread is as good as any to brain storm ideas on how to do it.

Rolygate, please, intrude!

I'm as confused as TV and Stubby regarding what you say may be available and how to prepare for it.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Tends to make one feel....helpless, don't it . On a hopeful note, I PMed Madame Psychosis to alert her of recent developments so as not to overlook said thread next time she logs in.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

You're not alone on that one, I'm running right beside you. This is left to more competent hands than you or I.

Some fire twernt it......8-o.

 

[Madame Psychosis]

[...] Why not start a new thread and have a couple of posts made in it by the thread 'manager' (MP maybe?) and left blank. The first post could have a link to the old thread, as well.

You can then start to rebuild the material locally, in an RTF (Wordpad) file or similar, and when there is a 'section' complete, have a Mod edit the post you want the material in, and place the text into the post. Alternatively the rebuilding can take place in subsequent posts in the new thread then be merged back into the first posts in the thread.
[...]
It seems clear that this material should be organised and published as a prominent article and guide, though you should discuss what you would like to achieve with it, of course.

What I'm getting from your suggestions, rolygate, is that for now what is feasible runs similar (in general fashion, if not in extravagant detail) to what DonDaBoomVape pulled together for his six-part Wonderful World of Vaping series -- a long piece broken into multiple posts reserved at the head of a thread, with new segments of text (including formatting, graphics, links etc.) to be inserted with mods' assistance as material is completed.

That sounds like a more sophisticated/organized proposition than simply summarizing the points of the thread as a kind of digest (not quite blow-by-blow) to make a starting point to continue the thread's discussions and bring newcomers up to speed.

I love the idea of creating a more definitive resource (and your plan for a dedicated section on projects/articles), but I would venture to start with the latter -- summarizing the threads as a condensed narrative.
It will get off the ground faster, continue discussion, and it can retain a log of the anecdotal experiences we've contributed.

What I had in mind is more like #2, digest style. Maybe start out with a brief summary of why the thread exists, followed by some "eyewitness" accounts of the "something missing" syndrome (Stubby has pointed out the 1st 25 as substantial, others scattered around. Needs to be as well rounded as possible for the sake of readers seriously trying to identify themselves with original posters). Then, the theory and process of identifying WTA, it's testing and results. Finally, where we go from here summary.
The majority will probably be reposts and excerpts along with supporting commentary and appropriate links.......

TV, I like this general plan a great deal, and designing the structure is practically half the battle. I agree on reshuffling the anecdotal experiences of the "syndrome" to the top. Everyone's got an attention deficit unless they can empathize with what they're reading.

Stage 1 is to give others a sense of what was advanced during the thread, summarized and placed into a new location.

I think with time and collaboration we can create a highly readable piece or pieces on topics covered....I'm just not feeling OCD enough at the moment to make an elaborate beauty of a resource.
(I overspent that kind of detail-obsession in starting to pull together the literature on MAOIs, nicotinic acetylcholine receptors, and psychoactive/behavioral effects of tobacco vs. nicotine vs. cessation pharmaceuticals, and kinda burned myself out for the moment.)

If I may, I think it would work to use this thread for drafting....? Then repost to the "new" thread (or a "new-new" thread?).
Or feedback/cross-communication can work through multi-recipient PMs, which is clunkier, but no post duplication.

My apologies I haven't put up anything yet -- the weekend's had much more travel than I expected (I do earn my "Location" under the avatar).

 

[exogenesis]

Hey people,

Don't want to intrude, but we have a whole new site section opening soon for these quality types of articles or possibly projects.

It's not ready to roll yet, but on the other hand you might have some editing-down to do anyway? Why not start a new thread and have a couple of posts made in it by the thread 'manager' (MP maybe?) and left blank. The first post could have a link to the old thread, as well.

You can then start to rebuild the material locally, in an RTF (Wordpad) file or similar, and when there is a 'section' complete, have a Mod edit the post you want the material in, and place the text into the post. Alternatively the rebuilding can take place in subsequent posts in the new thread then be merged back into the first posts in the thread.

If you imagine a standard web page layout, with areas for text, graphics and menus, that will be how we will ideally rearrange some of the fabulous material here that is currently scattered around in the various threads. This isn't far off now. Just a heads-up

It seems clear that this material should be organised and published as a prominent article and guide, though you should discuss what you would like to achieve with it, of course.

Chris

This will be a greatly improved way of presenting the more 'involved' and length topics.

Great to know that the forum is getting this extra capability, so that the info is clearer,
rather than getting mired in long dis-jointed threads.

Hats off to you & the management for making the effort & taking the time to improve the forum


If this huge 'missing X factor et al' topic and others can be managed into a
presentable form that reads & flows easier it certainly will make this place
an even better resource for everyone.


Sounds like Madame Psychosis has got a handle on this one, your efforts
are greatly appreciated .

Will these 'thread manager(s)' eventually not need to bother moderators
in order to update or add content ?, I think that's the biggest 'hold up'
for updating &/or improving large topics.

If so, for this topic, I assume the 'originator' (i.e. primarily DVap) will get this facility as
well as the one(s) who makes the effort to re-organise it, cos he might get some
spare time away from the lab at some point....I hope.

(looking at you again MS ... count me in for any help I can give)


Very encouraging !

 

[olderthandirt]

Perhaps the http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicotine/44958-so-we-getting-we-not-nicotine.html thread should be stickied so it doesn't get lost from view?

I'd ask the mods but I'm still waiting for a reply from a few days ago on a similar question

 

[TropicalBob]

Yeh, that thread was a good open discussion that just got derailed into off-topic comments. Too much chit chat, not enough observation or science. I remember wading through up to three pages of nothingness to find one post from those involved in WTA production or testing.

I really think at this point we simply have opinions about this. We have no science. We have a few personal observations from those who tested Dvap's WTA. His blog is a great resource for those who want further understanding of why nicotine alone might not satisfy some.

Not trying to be completely disagreeable, but where do we go from here -- until Dvap advances the process? More theory? His addiction theory seems well expressed, to me.

Seems to me that the only productive direction for this is small-scale clinical testing. In addition to WTA, it should employ regular liquids and placebo liquids. Only then will we be able to say with some certainty that it is the whole tobacco alkaloids that make a critical satisfaction difference for some percentage of e-smokers.

I'd bet I'd be among those.

 

[a2dcovert]

Yeh, that thread was a good open discussion that just got derailed into off-topic comments. Too much chit chat, not enough observation or science. I remember wading through up to three pages of nothingness to find one post from those involved in WTA production or testing.

I really think at this point we simply have opinions about this. We have no science. We have a few personal observations from those who tested Dvap's WTA. His blog is a great resource for those who want further understanding of why nicotine alone might not satisfy some.

Not trying to be completely disagreeable, but where do we go from here -- until Dvap advances the process? More theory? His addiction theory seems well expressed, to me.

Seems to me that the only productive direction for this is small-scale clinical testing. In addition to WTA, it should employ regular liquids and placebo liquids. Only then will we be able to say with some certainty that it is the whole tobacco alkaloids that make a critical satisfaction difference for some percentage of e-smokers.

I'd bet I'd be among those.

I think we are looking for a concensus. What do you want to do at this point? I think that sticking the original thread would be good. SJ would probably want it to be edited and the fat removed. I'd hate to see all the good info in that thread to be lost. So i guess we are looking for wisdom and guidance.

 

[olderthandirt]

I think we are looking for a concensus. What do you want to do at this point? I think that sticking the original thread would be good. SJ would probably want it to be edited and the fat removed. I'd hate to see all the good info in that thread to be lost. So i guess we are looking for wisdom and guidance.

That sounds of a good direction to pursue a2d.

I'd be willing to go through my posts and request deletion of those that I felt were wasted space.

This needn't preclude an effort to assemble some form of article along the lines that rolygate alluded to, but it could serve the purpose of retaining the pertinent posts.

 

[exogenesis]

Think it would be a missed opportunity to 'just' re-present all this info as a cut-down chronological sequence.

Also think there's plenty of scope for further work & discussion, in certain areas at least.

There are/were several areas covered, and it'd be just as difficult to peruse if it was the same but with the chat removed (well, maybe), for any of us re-visiting it & especially for 1st-time readers.

Is the objective to make the info & discussions far more readable / available / navigatable / attractive, or to simply slim it down into the same, but less daunting form ?

Feel it possibly needs to be split up into these 'web pages' royalgate was mentioning, so that the info in each is relevant to each page.

Ones I remember were/are:

Are we getting (all) the Nicotine

We miss something other than nicotine

WTA extraction sequence

WTA testing results

Several other discussion sub-threads, too difficult to remember without wading though the whole thing.

Just my thoughts, not trying to argue too strongly for any particular case though.


btw not sure if just getting the chitchat removed would be more effort than picking out the definitive stuff, especially if it's going to go into a new format ?

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Exo, I see what you're saying about categorization. That brings up an interesting point: should it read as a book of revelation where there's a beginning, middle, end or an encyclopaedic format (something tells me this would appeal to DVap and exo types)? Guess that should be a primary consideration. I like either, so I guess it depends on what will attract most readers and be able to keep their attention....I'd say the overwelming majority that are fighting back that itch just want the bottom line, but I also feel it's necessary to have a good understanding of what makes us tick. After all, we know it's not lack of willpower, but many will believe otherwise. That also brings me to the question of should a point be made of the original poster. Just so readers understand the legitimacy of the subject, Trog is a ecig veteran, inventor and maker of the "Screwdriver". Not some lightweight whining about if there's enough nic in his juice.
Back to categorization, as far as cutting out fat from the original thread, some of the other "good topics" don't need to be there. Like the things related to diet and suppliments. They're good topics and with good info, but nothing....absolutely nothing else panned out except the WTA.
Just some thoughts .

 

[DVap]

I've got good confidence that Madame P can present this information well, recent-arrival notwithstanding. Personally, I have an unholy dread of doing compilations and such... My curiosity hops about and leads me where it might (whether down productive corridors or into dead-end cul-de-sacs). (And honestly, I've never experienced the mind-bending difficulties that many here have, so my ability to relate the experience is rather less than first-hand).

 

[a2dcovert]

I know that I don't want the job of editing. I'm a late comer to that thread. There's a lot of history and water under the bridge. I guess a lot of it will depend on what SJ wants to allow us to do with it. OTD has already attempted contact with a moderator.

 

[olderthandirt]

...OTD has already attempted contact with a moderator.

That was just concerning how long a thread can get before it becomes a problem. Wasn't about the Are we getting.... thread.

They did get back regarding thread lengths though. It is being discussed at the present. We will know more later....

FWIW, I took a really quick look at just my posts.
Shoot, everything I posted from the 1st of December has little relevance. And that was just a quick look-see. almost embarrassing.....

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

FWIW, I took a really quick look at just my posts.
Shoot, everything I posted from the 1st of December has little relevance. And that was just a quick look-see. almost embarrassing.....

Wha'd ya say I had...like 330? The more I think of it, we may be able to get that thread down to a few hundred posts for MP...but hey, at least we kept it on top without posting a single "Bump".