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Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step.

Discussion in 'Coil Builds' started by super_X_drifter, Dec 14, 2014.

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  1. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    Aal, you are absolutely right on juices. I've been DIY for quite some time as dev juices for the multitude of tests and subjects I've had to work with. Liquid variation can have profound effects on performance. Far more than the average user is aware.

    To add to this…I stand by my often repeated impressions that the combination of a properly oxidized K-A1 t.m.c. and Nextel offer the broadest most expressive vaporization I've encountered. The growing number of subjects I've worked with continue to validate my own observations.

    Consequently I finally started to convert the bulk of my collection to Nextel/tmc operation last year. I still prefer some tabs and others on alt's like twisted or spaced and include rayon in the mix on occasion. But given the intensity and integrity to flavor, volume of vapor for power and sheer easy as sh!!t maintenance requirement for ceramic braid, I had to go with it. Too many mods at this point to avoid just having that great vape. The remainder, about a half dozen, KGD or alt when the bug strikes.

    We've come a long way in 3 years Aal, all of us. Fingers crossed for this community.

    Best of luck! :)
     
  2. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    Simple answer for TC'ers…round here we concentrate the wire and distribute the load, not the other way around. It's easy that way.

    Good luck. :)
     
  3. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    I'll try to address this with a starting point here to not through the other thread off topic with a rebuilding discussion. Here's an example build…

    23x2 7/6 2.75mmØ=0.2519Ω
    54.35-70.03W (14.69-16.67A) 168-217 mW/mm²


    This power spread is for a mech build. And it's the top half of the range that I most enjoy for temp and vapor quality. To try to duplicate this result on a box mod using Kanthal, I try to overlay it or center it on the same parameters based on the "median resistance" result for the mod on Mod range | Steam Engine | free vaping calculators. That way I can easily transfer the atomizer from box to mech. There are atty's I build with a lot more wire capacity (much lower mw/mm contact surface for higher vapor production. Why? I rarely build, or have to, above 20A.

    In other words, it's a range of performance. If you like a warmer vape you will center the spread (by the resistance you select) towards the high side of the performance curve. For example, adding a turn will lower mw/mm (make it cooler, more surface contact) and increase capacity (so you can add more power on a variable). This last you may want to boost vapor output beyond the capacity of the mech at that resistance. Always though watching the changes in surface output in consideration of watts for an indication of the final temp/vapor quality.

    I hope this helps. Perhaps someone will join in and improve on my explanation.

    Good luck. :)
     
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  4. Katya

    Katya ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Feb 23, 2010
    SoCal
    Thanks again, Mac!

    You have no idea how much I have learned form you, and from Super and other knowledgeable regulars on this thread. :)
     
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  5. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    Treat every challenge as an opportunity Kay. Always been my habit. My true addiction. I highly recommend it.

    Good luck. :)
     
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  6. Katya

    Katya ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Feb 23, 2010
    SoCal
    Right! That's what I tell my kids--every chance I get. :wub:
     
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  7. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    Lifted from the thread…Looking for any additives that cut throat irritation | Page 3 | Post #48 | E-Cigarette Forum for those still trying to sort wicking out…

    Pretty good round up of points here ID…

    Especially rich tab's, dark, sweet and complex juices. Some may require changing organic wicks daily just to maintain flavor if they don't just stop the vape altogether.

    Great observation on what often causes drying out the build, constriction. I call it getting ahead of the vape. It can happen too with too wet a wick (if you apply too much power to clear it). Better to blow some air into the atty. The increased airflow velocity will speed up or enhance vaporization.

    Also getting ahead of the vape. Think this is one of the most common problems as peep's seek cloud production and mistake this for density (actual vaporization). Up to a point, getting as much media as possible in a wind (for that coil diameter) is a good thing. So long as it's not too much flow for the heat you should be able to graduate power up to that flow. With a variable, easy. But possible too with variations in wire gauge for a given diameter. And coil length, don't forget that. More turns require and deliver more energy to the wick. The greater the mass of the coil, the more wick needed.

    Just as hard as finding the right balance of wicking for a build is learning how much flow an atty can handle. I think squonkers make that a bit easier but it's still a learning curve. The point is you really don't want to flood but you prolly want to be as close to that as possible to keep all turns wet enough. Otherwise, a wet coil with a turn over-heating and the other possibility just plain straining the battery to reach vape temp can be one of the harshest vapes there is. You'll run into it too if your batt drops to a voltage that's not enough for the build. Even regulated can push batt's this hard. If your vape's full and rich, vape on!

    Great post ID. G'luck. :)
     
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  8. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    For reference purposes from the thread…3 Ecigs, 1 Ejuice :( | E-Cigarette Forum:

    Was in that same predicament when I quit Sophie. Had I not solved it, would've never made it. Bottom line is factory coils are built to a generic idea as to what makes up popular "tastes". And right now that's airy clouds and higher watts. There is no getting around it…if you want to control for a balance of density you're going to have to find it yourself. For this there is no better tool than strain winding tensioned coils. It takes seconds to wind a proper coil and you can test for your favorite temperature and density like you were at a proper stove top. Why? Because vaping is more like cooking than anything that would do. But you've got to have the proper tools. Then you can make the best of that with either a PT Mini or try to get a Subtank with the RBA. Very, very easy to install. Master that and you can dial in that kind of density at power levels you can manage on the bigger toys when you want more volume (not airy diffusion).

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Questions? I'll hook you up with a few who've accomplished it, from 15 watts to 45 and even higher but with controllable density. PM me or drop a post on the Protank thread. Glad to help.

    Good luck. :)
     
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  9. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    Pithy I didn't post here…

    I agree Dave, when you find the optimal balance of power, air and juice flow for the device it's golden. When that coincides with your perceptual ideal, it's ecstasy.

    Good luck. :)

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  10. MrStik

    MrStik Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 6, 2013
    SoCal
    Good day everyone. I have exited the forums for a while and now I am back. Kind of gave up on building and using tanks now. Running the Baby Beast. Much easier to swap out coils than to build lol. Glad to see everyone here still keeping the micro coil movement going =)
     
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  11. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    There are are still a few subscribers login in Stik. But ya know the bleacher's have really emtied out of late. Guess they haven't realized it's only halftime.

    Good luck. :)
     
  12. Alexander Mundy

    Alexander Mundy Ribbon Twister Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 1, 2013
    Springfield, MO
    I still lurk here, just don't have much to add

    [​IMG]
     
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  13. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    We hang in for those serious enough to undertake the adventure. Not the hobby, the lifestyle.

    Thx Al and best of luck. :)
     
  14. muzichead

    muzichead Resident Knucklehead Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 7, 2011
    Illinois
    I'm a lurker as well but really haven't had anything to contribute...especially since I quit vaping!!:)
     
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  15. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    Hope you're doing well muz and I guess congrats are in order (lot less trips to the mailbox! LOL). Vaping isn't the end all. I believe it's a reflection of our inner social nature. That can only be enhanced and rewarded by the experience.

    Good luck M. :)
     
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  16. MrStik

    MrStik Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 6, 2013
    SoCal
    I have learned a lot. Not just building, but the weird cool science things I never paid attention to. I may have to go back and re-read the whole post from beginning to end to refresh myself.
     
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  17. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    Posted here from the thread…New studies find carcinogens in vg and pg at high temps, even in tootle puffers | Page 194 | E-Cigarette Forum…for remarks on the prevalence of extreme and unpredictable wire temp phenomena in light wire clearo's due to conventional wind asymmetry…

    And I believe you're testing (or tested) under the best of possible conditions. In my initial studies in 2013 I personally reviewed hundreds of build types including my own developing tensioned m.c.'s. Arcing on conventionally wound VV's (like OEM) would all too often prove so severe it would degrade the mass of leads. A rather shocking revelation. Something that could/did happen on PT's and other clearo's as well. If so called scientific studies of vaping do not take these common instances of exceptional variability into account they will no doubt skew the averages and maximums.

    I'm often intrigued whether researchers might purposefully go out looking for bad batches of coils (rather easy to do). It reminds me of the kind of crash analysis FAA conducted re Skully's Hudson landing of USA Flight 1549…repeat until we get the expected result.

    Good luck. :)
     
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  18. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    Want to groove in that strain? Just a little reminder that we're still here.

    Good luck all. :)

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  19. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    Short Answer: More wick, more flow potential and power may be applied. More vapor, more flavor. Use a t.m.c., more efficiency and overall vaporization rate to make use of that thicker wick.

    Lifted from the post Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step. | Post 1280 for more info.

    30 seconds to a ridiculously wonderful vape…and it's all right here on this thread.

    Good luck all.

    :)

     
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  20. MacTechVpr

    MacTechVpr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 24, 2013
    Hollywood (Beach), FL
    How about some tensioned improv's crew? Just the real thing tho. Like this double-barrel, split-S, bunny ears or whatever we're callin 'em these days…


    Dbl Barrel Quad, Nextel Velocity-mini
    22x2 10/9 2.778mmØ=0.2972Ω
    46.06-59.35W (12.45-14.13A) 85-110 mW/mm²


    Strain's kept this honey goin' over a year and can't get my bud to give it up despite constant offers. Routine wash and low power dry burn of tensioned Nextel installs helps maintain the integrity of even high watt builds. Strain just lets you get a lot more production out of lower power as in this case. Translation? The vape just tastes better and lasts longer.

    Practical joy for the rest of us.

    Good luck. :)
     
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