Lately I've taken an old REO tube and used a piece on each side of the bit pinching the TMC while mounting to keep the coil from spreading.
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Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step.
- Thread starter super_X_drifter
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That sounds like a great idea. I tried these little rubber things that came in an RC car parts kit along with those bit stops but they weren't so reliable cause they moved. Now that hose may be it.
Gonna shoot these to a friend to bore that hole and cut off from that black arc forward
Peko kit:
Extra wicks (15 or so), couple coils, Allen key for cyclone posts, 5/64ths bit for re-coiling, SOG crosscut, and delrin DT for the cold weather
Rebuilding kits:
Basically every single tool needed to completely overhaul an atomizer.
Now, its just really peace of mind. And a lot of pre-spun coils.
sent via Droid Mini
Geez, thought I was OCD. Nice work, love the photos. Great organization, makes me jealous!
Have you ordered your wire yet?
Some re-sellers don't wind them on proper spools. The spools are flimsy or undersized and so they cannot be used for tensioned winding with a pin vise and make the hand-hold difficult even for use with a jig.
I recommend TEMCO Kanthal Wire which ships on proper electrical spools…not the stuff meant for art wire.
You'll definitely find the wire size you need there.
Also a note that TEMCO does discount on eBay. But it's my experienced belief there's a reason for the discount and that wire offered there is off spec and of reduced tensile strength. The discovery was made over many hundreds of builds working alongside a variety of rebuilders, not just myself, as part of my ongoing studies of consumer rebuilding. Bottom line, wires snap under tension load. So I would be particularly wary of thinner gauge wire.
Caveat emptor. You get what you pay for.
Save your empty spools! In the event you come into a good buy, you can always transfer a good wire supplied on soft or small spools.
That is to say, even if you usually jig wind…hey folks, have a pin vise. Ya never know when you might need that alternative. And it's an invaluable tool regardless. A cheap pin vise and set of screw, hex, etc. bits and you have the most versatile universal screw driver possible.
Hope this helps.
Good luck.
Hi Mac, love all your posts (you too SuperX), been reading for days now, as well as videos. I have yet to touch my first RBA, the one I ordered with my brand new Egrip. Been vaping a long time. Started with polyfill cartos, bought a Great Greek mech mod years ago, recent past are 11 watt iTaste VW bats, then iStick 30 watt and clearo tanks like Nautilis mini, Kanger Nano, etc. I like small devices, for 12mg NIC and flavor. But I've been sucked into the world of coil building, for better or worse when I picked up the 20 w Egrip. Took a few days reading the over 200 posts in the Egrip thread and discovered you and SuperX.
The stock coils so far are all over the map, flooding, gurgle, Ohm's all over the place. Did the quick Aspire BVC 1.6 ohm, pin hack replacement, currently torture testing, much better. But many have recommended trying the RBA, so here I am reading everything I can on micro tension coil winding, as the premise and science as well as logic and results for you and many seem undeniable. While the gizmo and fishing reel seem to be the KILLER setup so far, I just want to get my feet wet, and anticipate never being a coil master, or needing that many.
So my inclination is toward the PIN VISE, at least to start, seen em, used similar tools in the past, time to get a decent one, and tension wind off the spool as you show!
So beginner question, is many speculate that the included Egrip wire is Kanthal 28 guage. Seems the Egrip gives its full range of wattage 8-20, with 1.5 ohm (stock coils), and 1.2 ohm (Joyetech pre-built coils for RBA base), I bought 10 of those as they were cheap, to get going. But as I want to do micro tension coils after reading all your posts, it seems you lean toward 29 guage, so before I place my first order for coil, wanted to know if I should get 28 or 29 guage to match the Egrips RBA requirements? I plan on getting the wire from Tempo as you suggest, here is the link for 28 guage, 25 feet, I may get a larger spool, of either 28 or 29 depending on your recommendation. And thanks so much for all the time and effort you and SuperX have taken to EDUCATE us for nothing more then a well deserved: THANK YOU!!!
Opps here is the wire link: http://www.temcoindustrialpower.com/products/Resistance_Wire/RW0116.html
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Congrats Mt on your success so far. I was looking at the eGrip. I like the form factor. It's precise and like the Subtank the build must accordingly conform. There seem to be quite a few fitting issues but I'm sure they'll sort out with time. A luxury for me. I like 28 AWG in the eGrip for a little bit more power. A little quicker firing time or an extra wrap and a bit more surface area with 29 gauge. I agree with cigatron's appreciation on twisted as took off on that thread for the contact surface. But if you take the time to look at the math a contact microcoil will outperform it. Secondly it can never be made into a true microcoil so you have thermal losses to boot. At the end of the day it's about how great is the thermal vaporization zone you create. Too much wire removed from wick (as a ratio) that being thick or twisted is heat radiating to air. That's what should be considered.
Once you get the 28 straight and can generate that cool down consistently consider some 32 or 31 AWG for twisted lead parallels. About the most efficient coil config I've ever done. And unlike twisted's it truly puts that wire surface down on the wick. Done three so far, two removed working and the original in a continued long term test. Just like the pictures I've posted. Firing uniformly end to end as I've mentioned up through 3-4 sec firing in that hot red mildly orange temp. It's then the center heats, in contrast to a standard wind. And of course, it's wire, so it can go yellow hot; but due to efficient electron flow you get beaucoup du vapour instead.
Yeah, have to give TEMCO the nod. Best consistency I've had for wire. Wire breaks (snapping) being the key indicator for me. Variations suggest out of round, out of spec. May not seem like much but in this application when we're talking about minute res differences making or breaking a microcoil these are huge. A bit off spec in principle is nada but when that causes you to lose the rapid vaporization rate of the coil when it goes micro (upwards of 25%) that's enormous. And once more I'll attest to my conclusion that when that efficient zone is optimized you see internal compression and vaporization point drop. Something you don't see in an open wind or multi-wire. No we're not talking a tube here. Not a pressure cooker. Just small tight winds that go very efficient.
Def try the PV. Start low tension increasing as you wind until you see them stick. Then a bit tighter and follow with a wind as consistent at that level of strain as you can muster. Test it. Test a few more. You'll likely find you need considerably less tension than the max you can wind. And it varies for each gauge.
Wish you luck there Mt. Hail us if any questions remain.
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Jumping in with both feet as shaking the analog habit. Have a MVP 3 and Kanger mini subtank on the way. Grew tired of ordering expensive coils for my pro tank 2 and 3, and was unsure if I could rebuild coils for em. So while I waited for them to come really started to delve the forums here. Then I decided that i was going to try the rebuild on the mini subtank. so after watching a vid with Super x last night, order 28 and 32 AWG from Tempco. It comes with Japanese cotton, and checking into getting koh gen do.
After only reading 2 pages here, I realize that I need to start at page 1 and work my way up, lol. The lingo has my heard hurting.
After only reading 2 pages here, I realize that I need to start at page 1 and work my way up, lol. The lingo has my heard hurting.
I got to page 37 so far as I try to absorb all the lessons and details. Like to do my homework, gives a bit of a jumpstart to the hands on learning. I then jumped to the end here just to see that MAC already responded to my question, how do you find the TIME TO WIND?
Thanks coach! I'll order the 28 guage to get started.
I'll also admit the robot Terminator Coiler videos slowed me down a bit, 2am, time for bed, tomorrow I'll get to the current end of this thread, unless of course Mac adds 10 more wraps to the thread count!
Thanks coach! I'll order the 28 guage to get started.
I'll also admit the robot Terminator Coiler videos slowed me down a bit, 2am, time for bed, tomorrow I'll get to the current end of this thread, unless of course Mac adds 10 more wraps to the thread count!
Mactavish,
Sadly it's not bragging if you look at my last post http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=15614811 . Those took exactly 1 second per wrap on the coil and only about 10-15 seconds to set up the wire and vice grips for tension between coils. When you get the hang of it, it's as simple as breathing.
Good luck
Sadly it's not bragging if you look at my last post http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=15614811 . Those took exactly 1 second per wrap on the coil and only about 10-15 seconds to set up the wire and vice grips for tension between coils. When you get the hang of it, it's as simple as breathing.
Good luck
Mac,
I think I caught up to what you've been saying with an end-to-end heating from the start and a slightly hotter center section after a few seconds. I tried to get it on film but it's hard to see.
Also, I got a shot of the oxidation after a good dry-burning session with a non-dry-burned coil on top of the positive block to illustrate the difference.
For info sake, these are 7/6 wrap 22ga A1 on a 3mm rod under tension. Even at 80 watts its thick and dense and still cool to cold at a 4-5 second pull. The only trouble is centering the coils as you mount them, they try to separate a bit as the legs move. I normally take care of this with a leg bend before mounting but, this seemed to work out just fine with only a tiny separation on one end turn.
Comments?
I think I caught up to what you've been saying with an end-to-end heating from the start and a slightly hotter center section after a few seconds. I tried to get it on film but it's hard to see.
Also, I got a shot of the oxidation after a good dry-burning session with a non-dry-burned coil on top of the positive block to illustrate the difference.
For info sake, these are 7/6 wrap 22ga A1 on a 3mm rod under tension. Even at 80 watts its thick and dense and still cool to cold at a 4-5 second pull. The only trouble is centering the coils as you mount them, they try to separate a bit as the legs move. I normally take care of this with a leg bend before mounting but, this seemed to work out just fine with only a tiny separation on one end turn.
Comments?
Not easy to hit adhesion with 22 AWG but it appears you're in the zone if you're seeing the density and vapor output temperature drop with increasing volume. This is the stuff that just crashes to the deck.
When I started my research I set about a fairly modest goal. First, to develop a simple wind technique most of us could do consistently. That the stable geometry also would help mitigate shorts. I found as well the unexpected that the physics provided for this marvelously harmonious stabilization of the circuit and wick to reconcile and leverage the forces so effectively for a conversion to vapor.
I struggled for a concise technical explanation and found it within an impressive discussion of physics on Reddit which I excerpted earlier in the thread. The answer to the effect is pretty straightforward. Tension winding achieves the most hospitable mechanics to a properly insulated and isolated circuit. In every form of electronics we use this as essential to proper function. Once achieved the obvious physical forces come in to play and the circuit path stabilizes. It is not rocket science but pretty sophisticated physics we invoke when we tension wind. What distinguishes a tensioned micro coil then in functional efficiency is that it is a proper electrical circuit.
I'd like to see that tool in every vaper's pocket.
Good luck all.
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Not easy, no. This not only crashes to the deck and brings down the house but the lack of sizzle after you take a pull is amazing.Not easy to hit adhesion with 22 AWG but it appears you're in the zone if you're seeing the density and vapor output temperature drop with increasing volume. This is the stuff that just crashes to the deck.
When I started my research I set about a fairly modest goal. First, to develop a simple wind technique most of us could do consistently. That the stable geometry also would help mitigate shorts. I found as well the unexpected that the physics provided for this marvelously harmonious stabilization of the circuit and wick reconciling and leveraging the forces so effectively for a conversion to vapor.
I struggled for a concise technical explanation and found it within an impressive discussion of physics on Reddit which I excerpted earlier in the thread. The answer to the effect is pretty straightforward. Tension winding achieves the most hospitable mechanics to a properly insulated and isolated circuit. In every form of electronics we use this as essential to proper function. Once achieved the obvious physical forces come in to play and the circuit path stabilizes. It is not rocket science but pretty sophisticated physics we invoke when we tension wind. What distinguishes a tensioned micro coil then in functional efficiency is that it is a proper electrical circuit.
I'd like to see that tool in every vaper's pocket.
Good luck all.
It will stand up to a 15 mph breeze and stay opaque at 0.24Ω and 80w!
Sad that flicker's not supported apparently. But thanks very much for the confirmations bro. Always helpful. Clip's short but makes the point. Have two winds very similar. Test fires were at 15W of the ~.53Ω parallels written up earlier, vapor production pics too. I too am working on improving feeling out the necessary strain to get down below .5Ω. It is a learning process as the wire gets thicker.
Good luck E.
p.s. Well it won't embed but I was able to write a link to it so folks see it's a clip.
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I'll have to grab a flickr account and shoot you a production vid later tonight, its pretty impressive
I got to page 37 so far as I try to absorb all the lessons and details. Like to do my homework, gives a bit of a jumpstart to the hands on learning. I then jumped to the end here just to see that MAC already responded to my question, how do you find the TIME TO WIND?
Thanks coach! I'll order the 28 guage to get started.
I'll also admit the robot Terminator Coiler videos slowed me down a bit, 2am, time for bed, tomorrow I'll get to the current end of this thread, unless of course Mac adds 10 more wraps to the thread count!
I couldn't! That was the point. Between the methodical care you have to take with an open wind to keep wraps just so. Not too obviously off the diameter. The tweaking and tuning…which btw is just adjusting the tension! Yes! All winds are tensioned. All the fastidiousness necessary to make an incongruous wind work like one that is…is too much work. Exactly.
I realized my first week in as a serious smoker I was going to need more than one or two of these devices. Not to mention my extremely varied tastes and that like a great many here on ECF I like variety. No sir. Having to rework even a few devices constantly was just not going to cut it. Add to that the challenges of rewicking which for any beginner is askin' a lot.
These days I'm running a minimum of 20 mods on any given day. I often have more than half of 70 devices I own wicked up and running or ready to go. No way I could dream of doing that without tension winding. The gear is just too demanding to have to be concerned about whether the build is going to work or not.
Stay with it Mt. G'luck!
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I just noted ECF's protocols don't support Flicker. It won't embed like youtube, vimeo or Facebook. I like Flicker's organization tools and presentation scheme is more upscale. A bit more work to link but it'll have to be that. They made changes recently and removed support for forum code. I guess everybody's cutting back just a little. <shrug>
Good luck.
Supplies on the way!
Nice PIN VISE, I hope:
Starrett 166C Pin Vise With Insulated Octagonal Handle, 0.050"-0.125" Range: Pin Vice Drill: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
Japanese Cotton Sample Pack (3 different brands):
Amazon.com : Koh Gen Do, Cotton Labo & MUJI Japanese Organic Unbleached Cotton Top 3 Brands Set (5pcs x 3) (15) : Beauty
2 - 25. Ft rolls, 28 guage Kanthal. Went with smaller rolls, figured it might help being lighter, for my attempts at tensioned hand winding off the spools!
Going to try making micro coils for my new Egrip. 1.2-1.5 ohm, 10 wraps on a 2mm rod. Odd, the Joyetech video showing the RBA build, lists the rod diameter as "2.2mm", and I slide my 2mm bit into the supplied RBA coil, and the ID (inner diameter), did seem slightly larger. All the posts from those actually building coils for the Egrips RBA, say to use 2mm. Guess it's close enough.
Nice PIN VISE, I hope:
Starrett 166C Pin Vise With Insulated Octagonal Handle, 0.050"-0.125" Range: Pin Vice Drill: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
Japanese Cotton Sample Pack (3 different brands):
Amazon.com : Koh Gen Do, Cotton Labo & MUJI Japanese Organic Unbleached Cotton Top 3 Brands Set (5pcs x 3) (15) : Beauty
2 - 25. Ft rolls, 28 guage Kanthal. Went with smaller rolls, figured it might help being lighter, for my attempts at tensioned hand winding off the spools!
Going to try making micro coils for my new Egrip. 1.2-1.5 ohm, 10 wraps on a 2mm rod. Odd, the Joyetech video showing the RBA build, lists the rod diameter as "2.2mm", and I slide my 2mm bit into the supplied RBA coil, and the ID (inner diameter), did seem slightly larger. All the posts from those actually building coils for the Egrips RBA, say to use 2mm. Guess it's close enough.
I got the starette too. It sucks for winding. The ones Mac recommends are prolly much better for our purposes. And they cost less.
The starette has 4 teeth. You want one with 3 if possible and one that is lighter.
Thanks, I can always return it, Amazon is good that way. Are there any good headband magnifiers you recommend?
Looking at this model as it had 4 magnifier lenses:
Amazon.com: Carson Optical Pro Series MagniVisor Deluxe Head-Worn LED Lighted Magnifier with 4 Different Lenses (1.5x, 2x, 2.5x, 3x) (CP-60): Sports & Outdoors
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