Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step.
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Hey Mt, I like the options including a jig. And I'm using several for different reasons often on the same build.
I like the Tamiya America Item #74112 | Fine Pin Vise D-R (0.1-3.2mm). It's a Japanese hobby version that's been copied everywhere. Small, light and precise plus it takes bits up to 3.2mm. (so that conveniently includes 1/8").
The universally common brass pin vise is my recommendation of choice as inexpensive and versatile. Some versions will take 3.2mm, most go to 3.0mm. It has a narrow elongated collet which is helpful in letting you get close in to the posts.
BTW by loosening the collet and repositioning the bit in or out you can set the collet in close to the outside post. By using the angle of the collet face (where it meets the post) as a pivot point, you can match the parallel alignment of the positive for both coils in location, lead length and tension exactly.
Good luck Mt.
p.s. Hold on to the Starret if it takes 3mm+. It's a great grip and hand hold for fat and multi-lead wire you want to manhandle into some healthy coil diameters.
p.s.s. The magnifier i rec is also about the cheapest...MagniLamp - GN-55 and available at most office supply, etc. Big advantage, a built in 3.5x (diopter) spot lens. Utterly portable and replaceable. I use a number of these devices including pro models but this ends up being my go to. The headbands make my head hurt. LOL
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The basic difference between a t.mc. and any other kind of wind is that the wire's internal tension is as uniformly consistent as can be practically achieved. That's the goal and what makes it a truly functional circuit by electrical definition.
When using non-matching diameters for adjustments or localization after the wind, larger diameters will distort the wind by enlargement or constriction of the diameters. Usually the outside turns are permanently disfigured (perhaps some retaining original memory). The coil may then no longer function at its originally wound resistance and go substantially hotter due to turn-to-turn asymmetry. These variations may be difficult to see with the unaided eye. You no longer have a tensioned micro coil.
I've seen so much variation in factory coils, I wouldn't rely on the claimed spec. However, you know for sure Mt when you make it yourself. Pretty soon they're going to start asking us to pay beacoup bucks for that guarantee of temperature. Why don't we just beat 'em to the punch, huh?
Good luck Mt.
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THANKS Mac, you are the BEST thing on this entire forum! Appreciate all the advice, and KNOWLEDGE you share with us all!!!
Wanted to add the Tamara pin vise is half the price on Amazon, compared to the makers site. Their own site is a BIT (pun) lame, they don't list the model number, but the specs look the same as this one:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EEOD03C...TF8&colid=1LVJPD6XPZIME&coliid=I315E5GPE0VWBM
Wanted to add the Tamara pin vise is half the price on Amazon, compared to the makers site. Their own site is a BIT (pun) lame, they don't list the model number, but the specs look the same as this one:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EEOD03C...TF8&colid=1LVJPD6XPZIME&coliid=I315E5GPE0VWBM
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The basic difference between a t.mc. and any other kind of wind is that the wire's internal tension is as uniformly consistent as can be practically achieved. That's the goal and what makes it a truly functional circuit by electric definition.
When using non-matching diameters for adjustments or localization after the wind, larger diameters will distort the wind by enlargement or constriction of the diameters. Usually the outside turns are permanently disfigured (perhaps some retaining original memory). The coil may then no longer function at its originally wound resistance and go substantially hotter due to turn-to-turn asymmetry. These variations may be difficult to see with the unaided eye. You no longer have a tensioned micro coil.
I've seen so much variation in factory coils, I wouldn't rely on the claimed spec. However, you know for sure Mt when you make it yourself. Pretty soon they're going to start asking us to pay beacoup bucks for that guarantee of temperature. Why don't we just beat 'em to the punch, huh?
Good luck Mt.
Indeed one of SuperX's videos explained the use of a LuerLock blunt tip needle, ever so slightly to use when fixing hotspots. Inserting into the coil, and that this needle should be just a bit smaller then the rod used to wind the coil. So for positioning, the same size rod is ok, and for "stroking" the inner coil if needed, something a little smaller, so as not to disturb the adhesion.
Got my orders in for extra gear, everything except the Kanthal was needed for around the home repairs anyways, so a good excuse to order up!
I remember when I first read about the whole 'stroking'/'raking' thing. I didn't believe it. Until, I experienced it. Too funny!
And then, when I posted my question to Super_X_Drifter, and he responded with such honesty... So rare... He has a special place in my heart forever!
I like you guys!
And then, when I posted my question to Super_X_Drifter, and he responded with such honesty... So rare... He has a special place in my heart forever!
I like you guys!
Had I not tried it, I wouldn't have believed it... impressive stuff, no doubt.I remember when I first read about the whole 'stroking'/'raking' thing. I didn't believe it. Until, I experienced it. Too funny!
And then, when I posted my question to Super_X_Drifter, and he responded with such honesty... So rare... He has a special place in my heart forever!
I like you guys!
Russ, ya know your one of the guys on the boards along with a few others I really vibe with. I always feel you bring good content and ideas to the community. If you like it guys, rock with it but for me I just do to many complex builds for ANY jig. I have really been into clapton wire lately, it provides some crazy flavour. I would gladly send you some wire Russ and cover all the costs if you would stray from your norm for a build, which I doubt...haha. You have what you like and I respect that. I have about 100 6 inch lengths of various clapton, fused clapton, tiger, celtic, xl tiger and various twisted wires that me and my wife twisted over a few nights. PM me if you want any man, I think you really would enjoy the tiger wire. I use an unregulated box I built so its similar to a Reo.
^ Thank you bro. That is a killer offer you rock man
Look at those blue beauties. Y'all would die if you knew how I made those 2mm coils netting 0.47.
I'd say they're ready for some KGD no?
you rock man Look at those blue beauties. Y'all would die if you knew how I made those 2mm coils netting 0.47.
I'd say they're ready for some KGD no?
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^ Thank you bro. That is a killer offer
Look at those blue beauties. Y'all would die if you knew how I made those 2mm coils netting 0.47.
I'd say they're ready for some KGD no?
Are those CLUES in the background, on the table?
Oh GEEZ, we can only hope "MacTechVpr's" internet is down!
I fully expect a NEW review, doesn't have to be a video, but dam if I ain't real curious!
ha, I've still been using my hand twist jig over my powered tension setup in most cases, simply because I find it so quick and easy for me. honestly the results are "about" the same vape wise, and my coils are very uniform and even, with what's called forming VS tension here.
I think when I wrap under high tension the coil may glow a bit more even, IE: hand wound formed glows from the inside out where high tension glows more uniform and pretty much lights up all at the same time, granted, yes, but the difference is not huge, a few ms delay VS instant. the vape? really can't say one is worse than the other, the tension wrap may be a slightly cooler vape overall but I can't say it's universally better for me.
I think the key is to get uniform even wraps. tension removes some of the variables, ensuring a very even uniform wrap but from my experience a uniformly wrapped formed coil is not vastly inferior to one wrapped under high tension, at least for me personally. I was a bit surprised to see these new coil forming tools to be so readily dismissed here because although I haven't ever even tried one I think they have a lot of potential. it may take a bit of practice to really get it down but I believe that these new coilers can make a good coil, they work much the same as the way I hand wrap with my spinning jig, only thing is my spinning jig depends on my fingertips for the forming where the new coil jig things use a screw or a pin to take the place of the fingertips so finger strength isn't even a factor in there use
I still think that tensioned wraps probably are the easiest, most direct way to get the consistency and perfectly uniform wraps for anyone, but to me it's not the only way to get there. forming seems to be dismissed too easily in this thread but I still think it has potential to make killer coils, I've been doing my coils like that for a long time before building my tension rig. once I started getting more into using reels I just kinda lost interest in the motorized tensioned jig, just seemed to be a very complicated way to get similar results to me as just twisting up a coil pinched in my fingers... I once tried dual coils side by side, one high tension wrapped and one of my formed wraps... even side by side there was very little difference between them. there is only a few MS difference in how they heat up but for the most part they both do about the same thing for me. the benefit of my powered winder is that I can now make 50 coils in like 10 minutes though
I don't say any of this to discredit mactech here and much of what he has said here is valid. tension wrapping may be an awesome revelation for anyone having trouble getting consistent uniform wraps. my only thoughts are I still believe it is not the only way to get there and with some practice a hand twist coil jig can make some nice uniform even coils too. I've tried them side by side to know for myself and have found for me that what's important is consistency and uniformity in the wind, wrapping under high tension is certainly one way to get there and may be the easiest way for many too
I think when I wrap under high tension the coil may glow a bit more even, IE: hand wound formed glows from the inside out where high tension glows more uniform and pretty much lights up all at the same time, granted, yes, but the difference is not huge, a few ms delay VS instant. the vape? really can't say one is worse than the other, the tension wrap may be a slightly cooler vape overall but I can't say it's universally better for me.
I think the key is to get uniform even wraps. tension removes some of the variables, ensuring a very even uniform wrap but from my experience a uniformly wrapped formed coil is not vastly inferior to one wrapped under high tension, at least for me personally. I was a bit surprised to see these new coil forming tools to be so readily dismissed here because although I haven't ever even tried one I think they have a lot of potential. it may take a bit of practice to really get it down but I believe that these new coilers can make a good coil, they work much the same as the way I hand wrap with my spinning jig, only thing is my spinning jig depends on my fingertips for the forming where the new coil jig things use a screw or a pin to take the place of the fingertips so finger strength isn't even a factor in there use
I still think that tensioned wraps probably are the easiest, most direct way to get the consistency and perfectly uniform wraps for anyone, but to me it's not the only way to get there. forming seems to be dismissed too easily in this thread but I still think it has potential to make killer coils, I've been doing my coils like that for a long time before building my tension rig. once I started getting more into using reels I just kinda lost interest in the motorized tensioned jig, just seemed to be a very complicated way to get similar results to me as just twisting up a coil pinched in my fingers... I once tried dual coils side by side, one high tension wrapped and one of my formed wraps... even side by side there was very little difference between them. there is only a few MS difference in how they heat up but for the most part they both do about the same thing for me. the benefit of my powered winder is that I can now make 50 coils in like 10 minutes though
I don't say any of this to discredit mactech here and much of what he has said here is valid. tension wrapping may be an awesome revelation for anyone having trouble getting consistent uniform wraps. my only thoughts are I still believe it is not the only way to get there and with some practice a hand twist coil jig can make some nice uniform even coils too. I've tried them side by side to know for myself and have found for me that what's important is consistency and uniformity in the wind, wrapping under high tension is certainly one way to get there and may be the easiest way for many too
^^^ what he said ^^^
Whilst making the most precision tensioned micro coils might be scientifically the best, how many of us can really notice the difference to a "reasonably well made coil"?
Not sure I can.
Whilst making the most precision tensioned micro coils might be scientifically the best, how many of us can really notice the difference to a "reasonably well made coil"?
Not sure I can.
Good evenin' fella's. A few thoughts b4 I crash. Long day.
All I can tell you gentlemen without going into more detail on the physics and electrical principles I've posted a bit earlier. A non-tenisoned contact coil is not a complete circuit. It is a short until electrical flow stabilizes which really doesn't without adequate insulation. Hi voltage fast heat and fire as replicated in videos so many times just doesn't get the wire there. In fact, likely deter the appropriate layering of alumina and perpetuating flow collision. Stabilization through insulation is persistent. Thermal loss through overheating ends. So if it continues oxidation remains incomplete somehow, somewhere. An example would be variations in degrees of alumina layering. Some too shallow to suppress electron jumping. Eventually accretion (carbonization of juices) may close the gap but it too is conductive and so resistance (and excessive heating) will continue to rise.
Not it is not...it will stabilize as you vape it, as some insist. Accretion begins pretty readily with use. And as we know with some experience resistance rises with it. So the efficiency you build, is the efficiency you'll get. And it goes downhill from there, t.m.c. or not.
If you're not seeing upwards of 25% improvement in efficiency (increase in transfer phase, vaporization) you've missed the mark. That's the minimum reported anecdotally in my considerable user survey of hundreds who've adopted t.m.c.'s on a reg basis.
Yes, the answer is totally and fundamentally a consistency of strain applied end to end. Consider a straight unwound segment, a simple loop and its strain. It's resistance is stable and consistent with it's calculated line length resistance. That changes the second wire goes into proximity or contact. Now that's what we want tho with a micro to gain the advantage of concentrated thermal transmission. However, not at the expense of blowing off most of that energy to atmosphere if overheating. Why? We don't need an excess of heat; only, enough to vaporize at the flow rate permissible by the wicking media. That's what a t.m.c. accomplishes by most efficiently distributing the heat flux over the wound area when the optimal degree of strain is applied.
So…the wire must not present a thermal short, not in any segment of leads or turns. The strain must be as practically uniform as possible. That's the rub. It becomes a perfected circuit in practical terms when thermal loss is reduced to a minimum.
I had the pleasure today to do a hands-on workshop with two new-ish vapers on the theory and function of t.m.c.'s comparing as we have in past factory (prominent manufacturer/retailer), hand-wound and t.m.c.'s…several side by side. Hands down gentlemen these new unbiased vapers agree. No comparison. And this has been a consistent experience when vapers of all stripes actually get to see t.m.c.'s that hit the zone. Absent thermal shorting coils work at their optimal best. No comparison.
Things must change when you get a t.m.c. going. The wicking can't be the same. It must support the additional flow. Most complaints I field have to do with mismatch of power/wick/wind with t.m.c.'s. Power being the most common. Your vape is much cooler as you're converting more energy to vapor. At the same time if your pref'd temp is warmer you'll have to warm up your wind (drop res) or up power output. The t.m.c. will handle it as @Etherealink noted earlier above. Why I've focused a simple straight wire starting reference points. A baseline here is like a most excellent road map.
Most often rejected example in my blind tests? A marginally oxidized close contact coil. What most of us are winding, particularly with coilers. If not compressed to oxidation by torching, old school…they will not insulate properly with mere pulsing. A great deal of pulsing and compression is required. These are quickly identified by experienced vapers as N/G when presented as t.m.c.'s. So Kuro, etc. coiler's, don't toss the Burnz-O-Matics. Better to have something that's got more complete insulation even if not uniform.
Really wish I could do this for all of you, clone myself a thousand times. Local vapers I know have the advantage of being able to purchase pre made t.m.c. product made by interns I've trained and authorized to produce using proprietary methods. Some prefer this to rebuilding as product is stable and they're on my subscription list. Same for custom juice products I've designed as well specifically to take advantage of t.m.c.'s potential. I am not a business, I certainly don't have the physical resources to engage one. But it's my way of trying to create a core of folks who can pass on this technology hopefully in time for the community if I'm unable. As well make some flow themselves.
One thing I am more certain of today than ever is that we will most of us be learning to quickly, easily make precise efficiently conducting coils. And regrettably far sooner than I had thought. Or, it will be done for us. The handwriting is clearly upon the walls for anyone willing to see it. Why I remain committed to this project.
That's the update. The work continues.
Good luck all.
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If I hadn't seen it myself, I would not have believed it, Super_X has been converted! Artistic Wire shares just fell 30%!
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Yeah, finally...I mentioned the Coil Master back in post #540, which was poo-poo'd by some. No big deal, (and I continue to use the Coil Master with fantastic results) but I must say that I do feel a tinge of vindication by SuperX and his admitted fall to the dark side.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ed-micro-coils-next-step-14.html#post15437524
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ed-micro-coils-next-step-14.html#post15437524
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I would like to see how he does it to get that "perfect" coil from the dark side.
I would like to see how he does it to get that "perfect" coil from the dark side.
Unless I'm missing the point your answer lies here:
http://www.coil-master.net/product/coil-master
Scoll down and click on the "Video Review" tab. I've been using the Coil Master for a while now and it gives me perfect coils every time with very little effort. I'm convinced that anyone can do it if used correctly.
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