Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step.

[MacTechVpr]

I have my coiling jig almost completed, but I need the Fly Reel. I went to Wallyworld yesterday and they did not have a single fly reel in stock. Not even combo on a rod. Fly fishing is not a big thing down here. These large mouth bass will take that thing away from you. All of the baitcasting reels they had were too expensive. I ordered a cheapo on Amazon and it should be here tomorrow. Amazon.com : Okuma Cascade Large Arbor 7/9 Wt Fly Reel : Fly Fishing Reels : Sports & Outdoors

Here is what I have so far. It should work very well once I get the reel mounted on it tomorrow evening. It is an oak 1x4. 12" long with a piece 5" glued and screwed on as an upright. So, it's 1 foot long and 6.5 inches tall with the rubber feet on the bottom. That won't take up much space. I still need to drill some more holes of various sizes to insert the mandrils.

Dang W, great platform. Love the rubber isolators. Good thinkin'. I've mocked up a few of these. Messed 'em up. Last time, I had a lot of problems with the mandrel distorting the wood workin' fat wire. Then the wind would get wobbly on me. Given it some thought and next time'll try boring out the hole to a size that will take several sintered brass bushings whose i.d.'s match the diameters I'm working. Just haven't had the time to look into that. Not too many industrial supply houses left down here in S FL where you can just walk in and fiddle with boxes of 'em.

Gonna need one of these soon I'm afraid or stick to thin wire.

Good luck.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Turbo, my brother... my hat's off to you. Beautiful coil. I post the following only for comparison, not judge. This is a quickly wrapped parallel on the gizmo.

Please note the difference between the top and bottom coils in my pic, there are a few.

1) The top coil is "stair-stepped" showing the tension wasn't even on both wires at the start of coiling and the twist to lock down the end of the coil is a bit too far on the negative side, it actually comes over the top of the coil and becomes part of a wrap and not just part of the leg.

2) The bottom coil is much smoother, the tension was much more even at the start of wrapping the coil. The negative leg has separated a small amount and it might not be a major difference it is still something to point out (yes, I'm OCD like that).

The major points are this... parallels are for 2 reasons: either increased surface area or lower resistance in a single coil build. The catch is that a good single coil can only perform like a dual coil build if well built.

Yours Turbo... yours was outstanding. The outside 2 wraps on each side of the coil show slightly less heat than the rest of the coil, concentrating the heat over the major surface area but not enough to show a discoloration near the center that would show a strange over heating problem.

Bravo Brother, great stuff. I would suggest a slightly tighter twist on the legs to tame the outside 2 wraps on each end but that's just my ocd lol.

Great observation. And as turbo will note with this result, he should see a firing tend to start more uniform and move to increased heating at center…rather than the other way 'round. If you may have noticed in the video I posted earlier of one of the first TLP's for the ST rba. It takes almost six seconds for it to go canary. That's a whole lotta vapor meantime. Of course in operation because of that distribution it will stay far and away cooler and certainly more than a less uniform wind. And that's what we want. As suggested by Dr. Farsalinos noted from his earlier study hotter shorter fires may result in a lot less exposure to juice and less potential creation and diffusion of questionable components. Something a great many cloud blowers back in late '13 and early '14 were already doing…moving to fatter builds overall for better faster production. Note my remarks to T above on Golden Mean. Bottom line tho we're talkin' about improved efficiency when we get higher production (not just diffusion).

Good pull E. I'd vape that. I'm not the best builder in the world. And if I see enough uniformity I'm cuttin' for the vape. Only change I'd encourage is to put more twists in the leads. This will do two things. First, constrain and support the symmetry and strain in the coil itself. Secondly, a possible benefit of the first help cool down the coil even more (perhaps due to closer matching of the overall winds tension). Make a twist, not a weave. Good reason for that is if the weave is at all loose (gaps) you will not match the oxidation of the rest of the wind. Result? The lead, or an individual wire will be hotter. Perhaps not hot enough to be visible but still a mismatch of resistance at that particular segment of the wind.

Good luck!

 

[MacTechVpr]

@super_X_drifter, Russ…think it was you that said, been lookin' for the post but you're point on with dimmin' the lights. Used to talk about that often on the Protank thread. Most of us old timer's need a lot of light to work our gear. But from time to time we need to cut that out. Hit the dimmer and a lot of our builds'll light up like a xmas tree. They'll likely vape like one too. I really hadn't talked much about this much of late but it really helps. I build with several high powered LED's including an overhead high-mag light. When I oxidize, I go to ambient room light and often dim that.

So…Dim the light to see the uniformity of the wind.

Thanks for that reminder Russ. Wish I could find the post.

Good luck all.

 

[turbocad6]

Oh, no, not another gizmo...

Turbo, what is that clamp? How did you make it/where did you buy it/can I make it myself? I've had this professional gizmo from Artistic Wire in my cart on Amazon for months now--I like it a lot.

I thought it could make nice coils with any size drill bit inserted into the chuck. What do you think? I could use it with your clamp, perhaps? Any thoughts?

I just want to be able to make uniform and consistent coils.

Maybe we could get a tutorial on making the clamp? It would be appreciated.

guys I'd be more than happy to show you exactly how my clamp works and does what it does and show how to build one yourself. my whole point of showing this thing over and over for the past year+ has been to share it with you guys.

Katya, that gizmo thing would work with my clamp but honestly the whole idea of my clamp is that you don't even need to bolt anything down to a desk, all of the holding and all of the stresses happen right in the clamp, so there is no reason why you can't just use a spinny handle like I am, makes coilwrapping so easy that you could wrap a coil while walking down the block chewing gum and skipping at the same time even

I'll show you guys later exactly how my clamp imparts tension and adhesion. next week I'm going to send russ something so he can play with this too and see exactly what he thinks... he's done so many different ways of coil wrapping so I think he's going to be a good gauge as to weather this way is superior to any other way so far. personally I believe it is and I'd love to share it with you guys which is the reason I keep showing it. me I'm good, been wrapping this way almost since I first got into rebuildables really, none of the other ways I've seen others teaching back then made any sense to me, from the beginning I always knew that this was all about consistency and what I call compression, which is what mac calls adhesion. basically you want the coil to be like a tight spring that pulls into itself rather than just sitting side by side. I call it compression and mac calls it adhesion but whatever you call it, it's just a good way to make the coil as tight as practical and as resistant to skewing and separation when mounted as practical.

 

[Katya]

there is no reason why you can't just use a spinny handle like I am

There is a very good reason why I can't use a spinny handle like you are--I don't have one. And I don't see how I'm going to fashion one. Those piano wires are so uncooperative...

Anyway, if you could provide a tutorial, it would be greatly appreciated.

In other news, I just got my Kuro coiler 2.5mm, the Tobeco clone, to be exact, and I'll take it for a spin, so to speak, later tonight.

It's all your fault, Russ!

Laterzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[super_X_drifter]

guys I'd be more than happy to show you exactly how my clamp works and does what it does and show how to build one yourself. my whole point of showing this thing over and over for the past year+ has been to share it with you guys.

Katya, that gizmo thing would work with my clamp but honestly the whole idea of my clamp is that you don't even need to bolt anything down to a desk, all of the holding and all of the stresses happen right in the clamp, so there is no reason why you can't just use a spinny handle like I am, makes coilwrapping so easy that you could wrap a coil while walking down the block chewing gum and skipping at the same time even

I'll show you guys later exactly how my clamp imparts tension and adhesion. next week I'm going to send russ something so he can play with this too and see exactly what he thinks... he's done so many different ways of coil wrapping so I think he's going to be a good gauge as to weather this way is superior to any other way so far. personally I believe it is and I'd love to share it with you guys which is the reason I keep showing it. me I'm good, been wrapping this way almost since I first got into rebuildables really, none of the other ways I've seen others teaching back then made any sense to me, from the beginning I always knew that this was all about consistency and what I call compression, which is what mac calls adhesion. basically you want the coil to be like a tight spring that pulls into itself rather than just sitting side by side. I call it compression and mac calls it adhesion but whatever you call it, it's just a good way to make the coil as tight as practical and as resistant to skewing and separation when mounted as practical.

Thank you Turbobro. Your props are a high compliment - thanks for your belief in me and thank you for making this for me. You can bet there will be a vid on it too

 

[oplholik]

@super_X_drifter did you ever get, and try that wire bender you ordered?

 

[oplholik]

@super_X_drifter did you ever get, and try that wire bender you ordered?

 

[turbocad6]

Katya, I'll show you how to bend one up easily. the only hard part is making a stop for the wire. before I added the stop my coils used to require me sometimes removing 4-5 wraps from the beginning because the beginning was always sloppy until the wind settles into the right amount of drag and compression, but since adding the stop this has been reduced to only needing to remove maybe the first 1 or 2 wraps so the stop def helps although it can work without it too, I'll show some easy ways to do it

 

[super_X_drifter]

@super_X_drifter did you ever get, and try that wire bender you ordered?

Sure did bro. Bent me up a 2.0mm. Works excellent. 2mm music wire is considerably stiffer than 1.6mm. I used pliers rather than my hand

 

[etherealink]

Check your pm's Russ...

 

[WilsonPhillips]

I completed the jig stand. I added the photos to the original post here. Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step.

Now, all I need are some spare spools for the Fly Reel.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Thank you Turbobro. Your props are a high compliment - thanks for your belief in me and thank you for making this for me. You can bet there will be a vid on it too

Turbobro? I thought I was bad concatenating everybody's name to alpha characters. G'luck.

 

[WilsonPhillips]

Oh, no, not another gizmo...

Turbo, what is that clamp? How did you make it/where did you buy it/can I make it myself? I've had this professional gizmo from Artistic Wire in my cart on Amazon for months now--I like it a lot.

I thought it could make nice coils with any size drill bit inserted into the chuck. What do you think? I could use it with your clamp, perhaps? Any thoughts?

I just want to be able to make uniform and consistent coils.

Yes it could. Although you would have to chuck the bits in backward. Pieces of music wire would work well too. With that, you could make "the build that killed Elvis."

 

[Katya]

With that, you could make "the build that killed Elvis."

I just want a good coil... Thanks, Wilson.

 

[turbocad6]

wilson that thing looks great. simple compact, self contained and portable


russ I figured out a way to make a 2mm spinner without having any longer 2mm rods. this way I only needed a 2mm drill bit for the coil wrapping tip

I also made an aluminum handle so the thin rod doesn't poke into your palm, ill make one for the 2.4 also cause it does kinda drill into my palm a bit it's like butter with the handle though

 

[Aal_]

Hey turbo. Now there's something you can go commercial with. Doesn't take much of your time and people are throwing money at all kinds of coilers. What say you?

 

[super_X_drifter]

wilson that thing looks great. simple compact, self contained and portable


russ I figured out a way to make a 2mm spinner without having any longer 2mm rods. this way I only needed a 2mm drill bit for the coil wrapping tip

I also made an aluminum handle so the thin rod doesn't poke into your palm, ill make one for the 2.4 also cause it does kinda drill into my palm a bit it's like butter with the handle though

That is a work of art man I'm as excited about it as I am about trying the 2.4. Beautiful and ingenuitave man. I'm even more stoked than ever and I was pretty damn stoked already . Thank you

 

[MacTechVpr]

Imeo i do believe you are concerned from the heart on all of us. and I know you know better than me in metals. I will think about it and try to stop dry burning. But as I said I get a better vape with contact coils. Hopefully temperature control will eliminate all those worries.

Thank you for listening Aal. But be sure that temp control requires spaced wires. Please forget the contact coils like you have never heard of them!

Aal, necessity is the mother of invention; not regulation, nor limitation. Foolish we are if we think otherwise. Increase the latter and there is only more of the former. Control is an illusion without understanding.

Limit the varieties and methods by which we can apply power (winds) and we are limited. This is not control. There is no control by merely learning to use the temperature dial on a stove. If we lack knowledge and its appreciation we'll still burn the pan (our coils).

Control serves one purpose here — the imminent illusion of gain. And while this may benefit some, to which I'm not opposed, it needs to come by the real understanding of those served. Otherwise, none of us gain.

Thought to post this here as my advocacy for the knowledge of strain has been about control. Getting control of our devices so as to suit our needs more effectively. Not just the coil but the mechanics of the wind and its secure productive installation. Either we get it. Or it will be done for us.

Ironically such an awareness may complement temperature technology. It must, it's physics.

I love McDonald's but I'll fry my own eggs, thank you. And occasionaly a liberally scorched medium rare steak with a well aged cask rum chaser.

Good luck all.

 

[Aal_]

Aal, necessity is the mother of invention; not regulation, nor limitation. Foolish we are if we think otherwise. Increase the latter and there is only more of the former. Control is an illusion without understanding.

Limit the varieties and methods by which we can apply power (winds) and we are limited. This is not control. There is no control by merely learning to use the temperature dial on a stove. If we lack knowledge and its appreciation we'll still burn the pan (our coils).

Control serves one purpose here — the imminent illusion of gain. And while this may benefit some, to which I'm not opposed, it needs to come by the real understanding of those served. Otherwise, none of us gain.

Thought to post this here as my advocacy for the knowledge of strain has been about control. Getting control of our devices so as to suit our needs more effectively. Not just the coil but the mechanics of the wind and its secure productive installation. Either we get it. Or it will be done for us.

Ironically such an awareness may complement temperature technology. It must, it's physics.

I love McDonald's but I'll fry my own eggs, thank you. And occasionaly a liberally scorched medium rare steak with a well aged cask rum chaser.

Good luck all.

Mac I think you are right. I always thought than in regulated mods we don't need to have the most efficient coil because we can increase wattage and get the same amount of efficiency. However tmc is not only about efficiency, but also about consistency in how the temperature is distributed. And that is mostly important in temperature regulated mods as well .