Terrible lag loading posts & threads

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sugismimi

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Im chiming in because i really did think it was my PC, however, we recently had an upgrade to higher speed in my rather backwards rural area.
thot for sure it would take care of the lag and, what about typing a whole sentence only to have to wait for it to show on the screen???!!!

non of this has changed since the upgrade. I dont get the 504 code it just sits; and sits; folded clothes still waiting..........



i agree we need a fix!!!!!!
 

rdsok

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Dang... go to bed and see what happens.... lol

Since I'm going to answer several statements made by everyone ( just for info )... this will be a bit long... so sorry for that up front.

@rolygate

Pardon me for reversing your phrasing here which takes it slightly out of context but only to help prove a point.

You can be 10 miles away from someone getting 3-second pageloads, with a different ISP, and get 8-second pageloads; another 10 miles further and get 30-second pageloads - or timeouts.

You are correct that different ISP's can make a difference in page load times but your statement fails to address the issue that these same users mentioning the lag and 504 errors are for the most part only experiencing it when visiting ECF and not when they visit other websites or forums... Your statement would only apply if they had issues on most or all websites and forums which they are not.

The problems are caused by the social media integrations, which strangle the pageloads for people with ISPs that can't handle the myriad of external site connections needed.

Your choice of method to integrate social media is what is the cause of these issues... your servers are a gateway for these and that is what is causing the delays and 504 errors... this is not caused by the ISP connection at the user end.

DNS IP swaps don't work for you.

Changing to different DNS servers will not change the fact that your servers are having gateway issues with the social media integration that ECF has chosen to use... Your suggestion to use script blocking ( No-Scripts as an example) actually proves the point that it is the implementation of scripts at ECF at fault... in short, ECF has chosen poorly in my opinion.


@whiskey

This is more of just added info and not an answer

By Upgrading to the newest version of software, Did the social media buttons have an option to use them(or not) yes or no????

(If so) couldn't you have chosen the NO, or gone with a different version of software that did not have these??

I suspect the social media integration was an add-on option that they did choose to include... Unfortunately a lot of forum web design is probably centered around it, not just the buttons, which would then require that they redesign the layout in order to change to another integration method... or do as rolygate has mentioned and move where the scripts load to the end which may or may not be possible...

So there are both layout design issues as well as issues involving the scripts. In short, it is no small feat for them to fix their poor choice of modules they have added and this is why I believe I believe they are so reluctant to properly address the issue.

@Liscab

how many icons do you have on the tool bar of your pc ?

I believe you are talking about the system tray and not a toolbar ( based off of your screen capture later ). Again, this isn't the issue here, other websites and forums would be affected as well if it was a PC performance issue which is what you are infering ( if I'm guessing correctly )

If you were refering to toolbars in the user's browser, some of them do affect the load time of the browser initially but only a few can affect the load time of a website or forum ( protection software like antivirus software can affect website load times as one example ). Since your screen cap didn't show a browser, I suspect these were not what you are talking about, I just wanted to quickly cover that while on the subject.

BTW... off topic... I don't see any active protection running on your computer... This is not a configuration I'd recommend to anyone. The most common reason I'm given as a computer tech is that "common sense" will keep the user from being infected and that is simply not the case any longer. Innocent websites are now often infected directly or indirectly through the ad servers they are using and there is no amount of "common sense" that can tell a person which one is infected before it is too late.

@Underwhelmed..

No need to quote you... but you are correct, it's the social media integration modules ( scripts ) that are at fault... or at least how they are implemented.

I prefer to stay out of the "browser wars"... Each browser has their own merits and website and forum designers are responsible to make it work properly in each one ( which is a royal pain in the rear btw ).

@Liscab..

take a look at your system config / startup items

You do understand that the majority of users just got that "deer in the headlights look" on their face don't you... the rest got it after they looked at the list of startup items once they figured out how too look... :D

If a user understands what items are required so their PC can operate properly, then they've already taken those steps... If they don't understand, they shouldn't be messing with it too much.

@The Wiz...

The number of icons on a persons desktop and/or system tray has no bearing on how many programs they actually have installed. Many will clear off the desktop and only access them from the Start Menu which is how Windows was designed to be used. Of course, many more don't understand they can remove extra icons from their desktop.. or even that they have a Start Menu in many cases.

@Adrena

Using a util such as No-Script will help... the social media integration uses scripts like certain types of ad servers use... but it won't block all ads only certain ones, it wasn't designed for that specifically.

Here I'll defend rolygate a little, he only suggested No-Script as a possible work-around and not a solution. He seems aware that it is not an elegant solution either since it would also affect other websites as well and therefore require that the user configure it for each website.
 

Adrena

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FIY I turned on my noscript and am fiddling with it..... Which I note some may not be versed in all the nuances of blocking every single script. As I need my "like" button script 28... Is a tough one to track down and not block. Just saying you're asking a lot of every "member" versed or not in all the webbing tricks. Oddly enough block just the 3 FB links 3 of them and I do run much faster I would say a 3 sec mark :D an the plus side no more adds
 
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whiskey

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Dang... go to bed and see what happens.... lol

Since I'm going to answer several statements made by everyone ( just for info )... this will be a bit long... so sorry for that up front.

@rolygate

Pardon me for reversing your phrasing here which takes it slightly out of context but only to help prove a point.



You are correct that different ISP's can make a difference in page load times but your statement fails to address the issue that these same users mentioning the lag and 504 errors are for the most part only experiencing it when visiting ECF and not when they visit other websites or forums... Your statement would only apply if they had issues on most or all websites and forums which they are not.



Your choice of method to integrate social media is what is the cause of these issues... your servers are a gateway for these and that is what is causing the delays and 504 errors... this is not caused by the ISP connection at the user end.



Changing to different DNS servers will not change the fact that your servers are having gateway issues with the social media integration that ECF has chosen to use... Your suggestion to use script blocking ( No-Scripts as an example) actually proves the point that it is the implementation of scripts at ECF at fault... in short, ECF has chosen poorly in my opinion.


@whiskey

This is more of just added info and not an answer



I suspect the social media integration was an add-on option that they did choose to include... Unfortunately a lot of forum web design is probably centered around it, not just the buttons, which would then require that they redesign the layout in order to change to another integration method... or do as rolygate has mentioned and move where the scripts load to the end which may or may not be possible...

So there are both layout design issues as well as issues involving the scripts. In short, it is no small feat for them to fix their poor choice of modules they have added and this is why I believe I believe they are so reluctant to properly address the issue.

@Liscab



I believe you are talking about the system tray and not a toolbar ( based off of your screen capture later ). Again, this isn't the issue here, other websites and forums would be affected as well if it was a PC performance issue which is what you are infering ( if I'm guessing correctly )

If you were refering to toolbars in the user's browser, some of them do affect the load time of the browser initially but only a few can affect the load time of a website or forum ( protection software like antivirus software can affect website load times as one example ). Since your screen cap didn't show a browser, I suspect these were not what you are talking about, I just wanted to quickly cover that while on the subject.

BTW... off topic... I don't see any active protection running on your computer... This is not a configuration I'd recommend to anyone. The most common reason I'm given as a computer tech is that "common sense" will keep the user from being infected and that is simply not the case any longer. Innocent websites are now often infected directly or indirectly through the ad servers they are using and there is no amount of "common sense" that can tell a person which one is infected before it is too late.

@Underwhelmed..

No need to quote you... but you are correct, it's the social media integration modules ( scripts ) that are at fault... or at least how they are implemented.

I prefer to stay out of the "browser wars"... Each browser has their own merits and website and forum designers are responsible to make it work properly in each one ( which is a royal pain in the rear btw ).

@Liscab..



You do understand that the majority of users just got that "deer in the headlights look" on their face don't you... the rest got it after they looked at the list of startup items once they figured out how too look... :D

If a user understands what items are required so their PC can operate properly, then they've already taken those steps... If they don't understand, they shouldn't be messing with it too much.

@The Wiz...

The number of icons on a persons desktop and/or system tray has no bearing on how many programs they actually have installed. Many will clear off the desktop and only access them from the Start Menu which is how Windows was designed to be used. Of course, many more don't understand they can remove extra icons from their desktop.. or even that they have a Start Menu in many cases.

@Adrena

Using a util such as No-Script will help... the social media integration uses scripts like certain types of ad servers use... but it won't block all ads only certain ones, it wasn't designed for that specifically.

Here I'll defend rolygate a little, he only suggested No-Script as a possible work-around and not a solution. He seems aware that it is not an elegant solution either since it would also affect other websites as well and therefore require that the user configure it for each website.

Hell...you've won my respect sir~~

This will be my last post, ya'll go ahead on this...But all & all...we can talk here about what the problems are until we are blue in the face and I think we all pretty much summed it up, now we need a fix or a commitment for working in a fix for it. I would like to know if that is going to be done in the near future or will it continue to anger members to the point of no return?? What say you Roly???
 
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zoiDman

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I know that Facebook, Twitter and Other Social Media Sites have become part of the Internet Landscape.

It's just a shame that many times these Sites Imbedded Code cause problems for people who are Not or have no Desire to connect to a Social Media Site. I'm a Big Believer in Opt-Out.

Not saying that the ECF has the Power to Rewrite All the Forum Code to be able to do this. And I'm not saying that the ECF doesn't do a Bang Up Job.

My gripe is with any Web Site/Forum Code Producers who do not write code which gives Non-Social Media Site Users / Administrators an Efficient and Relatively Painless way to Remove Social Media Site References for users.
 

rdsok

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Rdsok, you are right I don't have any anti virus on my PCs, i stopped using them 6 or 7 years ago and i have not faced problems at all , of course I am not a great surfer and i close the unwanted adds by Ctrl/shift/esc

I had mentioned ads as one possible source but they are not the only one and if an infected one opened on your system... it is too late for you to do something about it... Most infections I see in my shop are now caused by java or javascript based threats ( which work with all major browsers ). Of course it is still your choice as to what you do...
 

Liscab

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I had mentioned ads as one possible source but they are not the only one and if an infected one opened on your system... it is too late for you to do something about it... Most infections I see in my shop are now caused by java or javascript based threats ( which work with all major browsers ). Of course it is still your choice as to what you do...

I dont have those adds, I was talking about those little window that show once in a while , and by the way don't waste your time trying to understand my posts, I am the most unreadable member posting on ECF :D
 

rolygate

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@Adrena
I can't do anything about the social media integrations because that is what sites like this need now, and for most people it's not a problem. The integration on the latest version of the vBulletin forum software we use is very ugly, but not something we can fix. What it needs is a way in the core software to delay all these add-ons even being requested until after the main content has loaded; but because each of these additions is a plugin, coded by someone different every time, they are simply placed in the only available slot - which is right at the start of the pagecode before everything else. Therefore they start to make requests to other sites like Facebook before our own code starts to load. There are about ten of these sets of requests and they are massively problematic for us because the forum software handles them in a suboptimal way - it will work OK for people on A1 ISPs, but not for others.

I think the pageload speed probably depends on how the visitor's ISP handles the multiple requests to different websites. Because some people get 3-second pageloads, most get around 5 or 6 seconds, and some 30 seconds, this looks like the main issue.

If someone can suggest a way that plugin scripts can be killed totally and not even start making external http requests (asking other sites to load the social add-on stuff onto our pages) until the whole of the rest of the page is done, I'd go for it like a shot. It might need a re-code of the core app though.

I'll keep looking for ways to minimise the damage the social add-ons do. Until then, script blocker plugins for the browser seems to be the best solution / only solution.

Some days I wonder about giving up on vBulletin and going to Xenforo; they are supposed to know what they are doing over there...
 

VapingTurtle

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... It might need a re-code of the core app though.
...
Some days I wonder about giving up on vBulletin and going to Xenforo; they are supposed to know what they are doing over there...

Maybe if you beat on vBulletin as hard as we are beating on you, you'll get some action.
 
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