That didn't last long

[FINNIX]

Your basic premise is false.

This was my way of thinking: Regardless of quantity, tobacco and nicotine contains Nitrosamines/carcinogens. Chewing tobacco has caused/causes cancer (no heat or smoke). Many e-juices contain a very strong tobacco extract (NET, natural and/or absolute). We boil this juice to a high temperature.

The above is my opinion only.

 

[FINNIX]

Vaping may not be for you

Well vaping helped me quit smoking. Just because I'm questioning the tobacco/nicotine ingredient doesn't mean I'm going to quit vaping altogether.

 

[Vocalek]

Tobacco absolute is used in many tobacco flavoured e-Juice. From my understanding it's a very concentrated extract.



We aren't eating "charcoal grills" food 40 times a day, 7 days a week though.

No, but if you are vaping a gram of liquid per day, you are exposed to (at most) 8 nanograms of nitrosamines.

Just eating charcoal broiled meats provides exposure to more

The grilling of lamb on unready charcoal resulted in the formation of considerable quantities of NAs. Grilling lamb on properly prepared, ready charcoal resulted in an increase in total concentrations of six NAs from 0 to 4.51 μg kg(-1) over a period of 16 min. Increasing the fat content of the grilled lamb from 5% to 20% caused a modest increase in total concentrations of the six investigated NAs from 4.51 to 5.30 μg kg(-1).

Determination of volatile nitrosamines in grilled ... [Food Chem. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI


That's 4510 nanograms per kilogram of grilled lamb. Let's say that you eat a 4 ounce serving (0.1133 kg). That works out to 511 nanograms of exposure to nitrosamines. You would need to vape for 64 days to match that. Now these calculations are for eating the meat. I'm sure they would be significantly higher for exposure to the smoke from the charcoal grilling.

But the true comparison needs to be between your exposure to toxins and carcinogins in vapor to those in cigarette smoke. How many cigarettes per day were you smoking? What brand? Is it on this chart?

Nitrosamine Levels in Various Nicotine Products | Electronic Cigarette Web

The interesting thing here is that while they have just slightly higher Nitrosamine levels than FDA-approved stop smoking aids, electronic cigarettes contain less than 00.18% of the total Nitrosamines found in Marlboro Ultra Lights.

This means you’d have to smoke more than 587 electronic cigarettes to get the same amount of Nitrosamines in a single Marlboro Ultra Light.

 

[FINNIX]

No, but if you are vaping a gram of liquid per day, you are exposed to (at most) 8 nanograms of nitrosamines.

Just eating charcoal broiled meats provides exposure to more


Determination of volatile nitrosamines in grilled ... [Food Chem. 2012] - PubMed - NCBI


That's 4510 nanograms per kilogram of grilled lamb. Let's say that you eat a 4 ounce serving (0.1133 kg). That works out to 511 nanograms of exposure to nitrosamines. You would need to vape for 64 days to match that. Now these calculations are for eating the meat. I'm sure they would be significantly higher for exposure to the smoke from the charcoal grilling.

But the true comparison needs to be between your exposure to toxins and carcinogins in vapor to those in cigarette smoke. How many cigarettes per day were you smoking? What brand? Is it on this chart?

Nitrosamine Levels in Various Nicotine Products | Electronic Cigarette Web

Great reply, thank you for the education.

 

[Robino1]

Tobacco absolute is used in many tobacco flavoured e-Juice. From my understanding it's a very concentrated extract.



We aren't eating "charcoal grills" food 40 times a day, 7 days a week though.

Because the absolutes are super concentrated, they only need a couple of drops to flavor. One of the reasons I do not like the absolute liquids is most vendors go a tad overboard on the flavoring. Too much and it ruins the liquid.

If someone could comment on how much flavor actually goes into the making of....say a 15ml bottle of e-liquid. I think, if I am remembering correctly, the flavoring is actually the lowest in amount per bottle.

Realistically, the amount in a bottle of e-liquid really isn't all that much. The majority is the PG and VG.

 

[Spazmelda]

Because the absolutes are super concentrated, they only need a couple of drops to flavor. One of the reasons I do not like the absolute liquids is most vendors go a tad overboard on the flavoring. Too much and it ruins the liquid.

If someone could comment on how much flavor actually goes into the making of....say a 15ml bottle of e-liquid. I think, if I am remembering correctly, the flavoring is actually the lowest in amount per bottle.

Realistically, the amount in a bottle of e-liquid really isn't all that much. The majority is the PG and VG.

I don't make tobacco liquids, but I know over on the DIY board people who use tobacco flavors are warned to start at very low percentages. As opposed to say, a fruit flavor, where you'd add maybe 10%, tobacco flavors are usually recommended at 1% or maybe even lower.

 

[Kent C]

Well vaping helped me quit smoking. Just because I'm questioning the tobacco/nicotine ingredient doesn't mean I'm going to quit vaping altogether.

I understand the questioning, but there is evidence - just in dosage - you likely know the quote about dosage - Poison is in everything, and no thing is without poison. The dosage makes it either a poison or a remedy. - that it isn't as much of a concern.

One of the problems that has developed from technology is our ability to measure to the smallest degree. That isn't the problem per se, but it is a political one where certain special interests of the type that want to stop all "chemicals". Those interests have created what is called a 'no threshhold' policy where anything that can now be detected as to having any carcinogenic substance can be banned or highly controlled. Before the 'no-threshhold' policy - it was as high as the then current measuring equipment could measure - early on - in the millionths of particles, then billionths, to where now any nano'th particle and a substance can be outlawed. And it doesn't have to be harmful to humans - but to birds, toads, insects.

It is why DDT, the most effective substance to combat mosquitos carrying malaria, was banned. Malaria cases dropped to near zero in all countries affected. Now death by malaria is up to pre-DDT numbers. Yet there was one 'anti-DTT' proponent that would drink DDT milkshakes in his demonstration of how it was not harmful to humans. Many of died because of the 'concern' of the politically motivated environmentalists and animal rights factions.

Again, it is the dosage that is can either be harmful or in some cases even helpful - with nicotine, there are several medical studies that show some nicotine can stop/help prevent Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, rheumatoid arthritis, dementia and others. It's why I'll never go to 0mg nicotine.

But... if none of that makes you less concerned, then it isn't really worth worrying about it as that may be even more harmful to your health than vaping.

 

[Traver]

Do you really think a billion dollar tobacco industry that supports half the gov'ts around the world is going to say Go spend your money on ecigs? We have enough.

Yes.
Almost every big tobacco company is either selling e-cigs or is about to.

 

[WarHawk-AVG]

I am a member of both CASAA and ECF. Sorry, I really don't mean to offend you. It just hit my funny bone wrong.

I personally don't believe that Naturally Extracted Tobacco have carcinogens in them. I don't know much about absolutes nor do I know about WTA's. I use NET liquids. I would be more wary of the WTA's only because more of the chemical compounds of the tobacco are extracted. With NET's, they are just getting the flavor from the tobacco.

My take on the whole thing, just my opinion only, the burning of the tobacco and paper causes the chemistry of the cigarette to change. The result from Burning and the Smoke from the combustion of all those additives in addition to tobacco, are what causes the carcinogens to come about.

Tar is a very nasty byproduct of burning a cigarette. I feel the I'm using a HEALTHIER alternative. 100% free from danger? I don't believe it is. Nothing can say that it is 100% good for you. But I don't believe I'm putting myself in danger. I am using something that is by far(!) less riskier than smoking traditional cigarettes.

There is MUCH more in cigs besides TAR that is KNOWN to be bad...but is rarely mentioned, three major chemicals found in each cig, every cig, every time...just in different ratios, forget the trace stuff...that's just it...it's trace...may or may not show up in such minute amounts from that it's almost undetectable, but there are 3 that are there EACH TIME, EVERY TIME...

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-liquid-discussion/465485-its-not-nicotine.html
(people are probably tired of seeing this...but people need to understand)

 

[AgentAnia]

Because the absolutes are super concentrated, they only need a couple of drops to flavor. One of the reasons I do not like the absolute liquids is most vendors go a tad overboard on the flavoring. Too much and it ruins the liquid.

If someone could comment on how much flavor actually goes into the making of....say a 15ml bottle of e-liquid. I think, if I am remembering correctly, the flavoring is actually the lowest in amount per bottle.

Realistically, the amount in a bottle of e-liquid really isn't all that much. The majority is the PG and VG.

I don't DIY tobacco flavors, but I do mix my own fruit and bakery juices, using "concentrated flavorings." The most flavor I've had to add per ml. of base is 3 drops. So for 15 mls. of juice, that would be 45 drops, using an extra-small dropper. I've never measured the drops but am going to estimate that 45 of my drops would probably equal about 0.15 ml. (Keep in mind that the flavoring itself is diluted, usually with PG, so that 0.15 ml is not all flavoring.)

 

[Kent C]

I don't DIY tobacco flavors, but I do mix my own fruit and bakery juices, using "concentrated flavorings." The most flavor I've had to add per ml. of base is 3 drops. So for 15 mls. of juice, that would be 45 drops, using an extra-small dropper. I've never measured the drops but am going to estimate that 45 of my drops would probably equal about 0.15 ml. (Keep in mind that the flavoring itself is diluted, usually with PG, so that 0.15 ml is not all flavoring.)

This is a good point, lost in much of the discussion. For my 11mg DIY I use 17 parts VG(VG:H2O); 6 parts Nic (VG:H2O base + the nic); and 5-6 parts flavoring - which has a base of VG, PG, and/or PGA that makes up most of those 6 parts plus the flavoring extract. The actual flavoring essence is a very small part of the final product. None of my 6 main vapes have any tobacco absolute - two 'back up' flavors do.

 

[Skitty]

Yes.
Almost every big tobacco company is either selling e-cigs or is about to.

Exactly, and they want us to be so scared of buying 'unregulated' versions that we'll only buy from them and not the others. FUD is great even if you're in the same business...especially if, in fact!

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Talyon]

Just wanted to say TY to all the ECF folk who came in to help out the OP in this thread, once again proving Vapers ROCK!

 

[Robino1]

Since I have no knowledge of gear, this is the best kind of stuff that I can do

 

[kristin]

Equating the risk of getting cancer from the low level of "carcinogens" found in e-cigarette liquid and smoke-free tobacco to exposure from smoking would be like equating the risk of being fatally poisoned by the arsenic ingested by drinking apple juice compared to eating rat poison.

Just because they can "detect" a chemical doesn't automatically mean it's a health risk. The chemical has to be present at levels that MAKE it a health risk. To date, they have not found what is considered harmful or toxic levels of ANY carcinogen, chemical or metal in e-cigarette vapor - regardless of how the ANTZ and news media like to twist the findings.

 

[Petrodus]

Suggestion for those frustrated with all the lies and negative e-cig propaganda now ...
Buckle Up !!
When the FDA releases their "Proposed" demon regulations ...
All hell is going to break loose.

 

[AgentAnia]

Equating the risk of getting cancer from the low level of "carcinogens" found in e-cigarette liquid and smoke-free tobacco to exposure from smoking would be like equating the risk of being fatally poisoned by the arsenic ingested by drinking apple juice compared to eating rat poison.

Just because they can "detect" a chemical doesn't automatically mean it's a health risk. The chemical has to be present at levels that MAKE it a health risk. To date, they have not found what is considered harmful or toxic levels of ANY carcinogen, chemical or metal in e-cigarette vapor - regardless of how the ANTZ and news media like to twist the findings.

Excellent point, kristin, and one that needs to be made repeatedly to those new to vaping who are anxious about ecig health and safety issues. Too many people today have unquestioningly bought into the fearmongering so prevalent in our media these days. They seem to have forgotten that the poison is in the dose and cringe at any mention of "carcinogenic." It's essential as consumers that we maintain perspective on relative danger and relative safety.

Just recently the FDA hastened to reassure the public that the levels of arsenic found in rice were not dangerous. Too bad they can't apply the same measure of public reassurance to ecigs...

 

[AgentAnia]

Suggestion for those frustrated with all the lies and negative e-cig propaganda now ...
Buckle Up !!
When the FDA releases their "Proposed" demon regulations ...
All hell is going to break loose.

... and ECF will hand out the prize for the 15,000,000th post early in November!

 

[sonicdsl]

For the OP, since you are in the UK, you might also check out www.eccauk.org, the consumer organization for the UK (like CASAA is for the US).

Sent while Moderating ECF via Tapatalk 4

 

[Traver]

Today a UK newspaper published an article about E-cigs and how they've found carcinogens such as formaldehyde in the tested juice (sure you've all heard). I always assumed people smoked for the nicotine but died from the smoke.. that got me thinking about tobacco and nicotine and realised people have died from chewing tobacco. With every other vendor now claiming "natural tobacco" and many juices containing tobacco absolute I'm starting to worry about the carcinogens in E-cigs.

Of course vaping is the healthier option but should I now avoid any tobacco flavours?

Lew

P.S.
After reading all of the main threads on the subjects I'm still clueless as to the difference between Whole Tobacco Alkaloid, Absolute, and Extract so if anyone can sum it up for me that'd be great.

Getting back to OP's original question. Do we know what is in absolute tobacco?

At least some of the Major flavoring companies sell it and they are supposed to be able to provide all of the ingredients in their flavorings on demand. I m assuming that we don't know the exact makeup of any of the extracts.