LOL, whatever that means. But yes, I am really hoping for pics, prrof, links etc. - and debate - regarding the origin of the ecig. So I hope you guys don't try to derail too much.
The Chinese invented and brought us the modern ecig! Agree or not?
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New Invention of 1963: The Smokeless Non-Tobacco Cigarette | The Electronic Cigarette & E-Cigarettes by Instead
perhapes you could google it
perhapes you could google it
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Thanks vapagirl. Yes, I saw that link. But is it real? What other proof. A diagram and a working prototype is very different IMHO. They had cameras in the early 1960's. Where are the PHOTOS?
I have googled it to death. All the hits are just a rehash of that same article. Like put any nonsense about a 'hot topic' on twitter or on a blog, and within a few weeks it is a 'know fact' and retweeted, blogged about, linked to, mentioned on the news etc. Then it is FACT lol. Next it appears on Wikipedia! Wasn't there last time I looked and now it is.
Until further proof of a working ecig designed in the early 60's appear. I call BS and maintain that the Chinese invented the ecig! Anyway, what kind of batteries and where is the atomizer. Where did the liquid go? That diagram doesn't do it for me. And who was that person? What jb did he do? Was he an engineer, a doctor, a tinkerer? What else did he design?
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Gilbert patent
Patent US3200819 - SMOKELESS NON-TOBACCO CIGARETTE - Google Patents
You might also find this an interesting read.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/02/23/idUS190688+23-Feb-2009+PRN20090223
So Hon Lik's rights have been upheld in China for a while now (2009). Only the courts here can decide if his US patent rights will be upheld, or if the Gilbert patent supersedes it. (which would now make the technology open source)
Patent US3200819 - SMOKELESS NON-TOBACCO CIGARETTE - Google Patents
You might also find this an interesting read.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/02/23/idUS190688+23-Feb-2009+PRN20090223
So Hon Lik's rights have been upheld in China for a while now (2009). Only the courts here can decide if his US patent rights will be upheld, or if the Gilbert patent supersedes it. (which would now make the technology open source)
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In my experience, there is never ONE inventor. It's usually several people thinking along the same line. Sometimes publishing or talking about it to enough other people and it takes hold.
Then someone is daring enough to make a prototype and demonstrate "proof of concept". Basically, someone demonstrate that it can work.
After that, others fiddle with it until it works well enough to be a real application.
Final phase: if you are brave enough to invest a lot of energy and money to make it commercial you go for it.
Bringing something to the market is a definite team effort with a lot of contributors left behind and a few to make money out of it.
Ecig is no exception.
Then someone is daring enough to make a prototype and demonstrate "proof of concept". Basically, someone demonstrate that it can work.
After that, others fiddle with it until it works well enough to be a real application.
Final phase: if you are brave enough to invest a lot of energy and money to make it commercial you go for it.
Bringing something to the market is a definite team effort with a lot of contributors left behind and a few to make money out of it.
Ecig is no exception.
Here is the US Patent Dated April 1963
http://www.e-cig.org/pdfs/Smokeless-non-tobacco-cigarette.pdf
Further proof SERIOUSLY?
I"ve shown you the actual patent, and additionally a Popular Mechanics article detailing it circa 1967 , you can be skeptical all you wish, but calling BS when you got exactly what you asked for is ........ well a bit "over the top" IMHO especially when you've admitted you were not even born in the 60's ... just my
Believe whatever makes you happy, it's not a secret , it's well known by us older folks, the "problem" IMO is that back then smoking wasn't seen for the dangers that is WAS (and is) so there was not much incentive to market it (a real shame IMO)
They did NOT have digital cameras and NO internet , the opinion that because there are No "photos on the internet" at a time it didn't exist is well.......
You asked "IF Gilbert were an engineer"? What does that have to do with anything? Hon Lik, is a Chinese Pharmacist , YET you have no issue with the claim he "invented" something that was Actually invented decades earlier and issued a US Patent no less!
I just frankly have no desire to try to "prove" what is fact to anyone on here, if you Really wanted "debate" you'd not call BS on getting "real proof" when You asked for it, call me skeptical , but "debate" is not likely where this is going to end up, count Me out
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Even if it can be argued that the Chinese did not invent the e-cig, it can not be argued that we would not be vaping if it weren't for the Chinese. So yes, the Chinese brought us the modern e-cig and popularized vaping.
HUGE difference in "invented" and who "brought us the modern e-cig" , that difference IS the whole point. Because good ole Hon Lik stole an idea > 40 years old and used modern technology to improve on it and to market it does not make him the "inventor" at all.
I would surmise that anyone should be able to view the patent application (which was granted btw decades before the China "invention" LOL) and realize the e-cig was really invented in 1963, this IS quite important as the FDA knowing this cannot "regulate" products that far back. To dismiss the true facts (and the history not to mention the true inventor) is NOT good or helpful to anyone IMHO
I would surmise that anyone should be able to view the patent application (which was granted btw decades before the China "invention" LOL) and realize the e-cig was really invented in 1963, this IS quite important as the FDA knowing this cannot "regulate" products that far back. To dismiss the true facts (and the history not to mention the true inventor) is NOT good or helpful to anyone IMHO
I don't think battery technology in the 1960s would have been adequate to make it work (that or the devices would be so big nobody would want to carry them around).
Technology what it was isn't the "real point" when it was invented and where IS... Had the REAL dangers of smoking been realized back then things would have gone differently IMHO. The facts are what they are, Gilbert was decades ahead of his time with an awesome invention everyone here enjoys today. I believe he deserves the credit for what he DID accomplish even before the scope of how big it would become could have been known.
Do we know the Chinese were aware of this patent and took it to the next level or came up with the idea on their own? Even if the they did copy the patent, we would not be vaping today if it weren't for the Chinese. Both the inventor and the people who brought it to the masses deserve just as much credit.
How could things have gone differently if the technology to make e-cigs work wouldn't be ready for decades?
The problem is the 60's patented device worked totally different. Yes it was an "ecig" but not the same as the modern ecig. No way can you give credit to Gilbert for Han's creation.
It's a fact Gilbert had the first patent on the vaporizing ecig, and Hon Lik brought us the current ecig today, I agree with this part, and I highly doubt that Hon Lik's patent will supersede Gilbert's in any way, if that where the case then patents written 40yrs ago would be worthless and that's just not how patent law works so Gilbert's will most likely stand. There is to much $$$ involved and now that Big tobacco & Big Pharma are involved there's just no way they would let that happen with all the power and deep pockets they have and use in many ways.. But as far as regulation on a 40yr old product I have to disagree, times change, laws change, and especially politic's & judges change, hahah,, bu the FDA can step in and will be stepping in to set Reg's on the Nic end of the equation here, in fact I would bet there well into page #xxx and almost finished righting the Reg's, it's just a matter of time when they go into law. This will probably happen once Big Pharma & Big Tobacco come to an agreement with the FDA setting the terms to make all parties involved to be able to move forward.
You can disagree but there IS a time limit on FDA regulating any such products , that is how it is, not speculation or opinion, IIRC they can't regulate anything that was already in the US prior to 1973. SO it IS quite important that we know and recognize the E-cig WAS in fact invented in the US prior to then. Quite awhile before then in fact.
That is a matter of opinion and speculation, it vaporized liquid which is what the current ones do it is absurd IMO to even entertain the thought that Gilbert had No bearing on something that was never heard of prior to his design. Some seem to WANT to "believe" the Chinese Pharmacist just had an "original invention" despite the clear evidence to the contrary... that is fine I suppose, ideas get improved on over time as technology improves, that is expected, what I can't figure is WHY anyone would even try to discount well known and easily proved facts. LOL
Theres no sense in even debating the facts, Gilbert was the first and has the patent. The only thing is about regulation is there was no E-liquid back then, this is what is going to be regulated guy's, e-liquid didnt evolve till the 2000's I believe for vaporizers, so they can Regulate this chemical, I wished I was wrong though but there gonna do it, the wild wild west of E-Liquid is gonna take a regulation hit sometime soon.
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Just look at the wright brothers who got credit inventing the airplane. They were not the first to do so just the first to create the controls to make it possible for use. Sure Gilbert designed an ecig but Han developed the first usable ecig.
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