The cops are at my door!

[NCChief]

who do have the authority to shoot at will and potentially, as has been shown time and time again, bear little to no repercussion.

Hi Eric,

Thank you for your thoughts. I would like to point out a flaw in your statement though. We do NOT have the authority to shoot at will. We are governed by strict laws and certain criteria have to be met before discharging a firearm. In NC, we are governed by NC GS 15A-401 (D) (2) which in part states:

(2) A law‑enforcement officer is justified in using deadly physical force upon another person for a purpose specified in subdivision (1) of this subsection only when it is or appears to be reasonably necessary thereby:

a. To defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of deadly physical force;

b. To effect an arrest or to prevent the escape from custody of a person who he reasonably believes is attempting to escape by means of a deadly weapon, or who by his conduct or any other means indicates that he presents an imminent threat of death or serious physical injury to others unless apprehended without delay; or

c. To prevent the escape of a person from custody imposed upon him as a result of conviction for a felony.

Section (c.) is mostly for NC Department of Corrections.

That is just NC State law. My department has stricter policies (no warning shots etc...) that must be adhered to. It has gotten to the point where you have to have department head approval to even draw your weapon. In reality, the criminal has more rights than the guys out there trying to protect you.

Your statement is very misleading and is not true. Thanks for listening.

 

[Stephaniems]

Maybe you think thats true, but google police shoot unarmed man and read all the stories that pop up!

 

[NCChief]

Maybe you think thats true, but google police shoot unarmed man and read all the stories that pop up!

Excellent point! If it is on the Internet it HAS to be true. Bwahahaha!!

BTW, since you "Googled" it, I take it you were at all of the scenes and have all of the facts of each event.

 

[yknotagain]

I have a lot of friends on the county and city forces. I shot Cowboy Action with 2 of them for years until they both retired and moved up north to different parts of the state. Several others stop in my store frequently just to say hi. The only officer I ever had any problems with was a state trooper - in Wisconsin they have no authority except traffic and I think that makes them a bit nuts lol. The county and city guys all make fun of the state boys.

 

[Superstargoddess]

Maybe you think thats true, but google police shoot unarmed man and read all the stories that pop up!

Ok, first of all, much love to NCChief. <3 <3 <3 <3

As for the post that I am referring to... there are a lot of times that the police don't know if someone is armed or not, but something makes them think that they are. Like in a case locally around here that I have mentioned before, a guy led an officer on a high speed persuit, eventually crashing his car into a side of a building on a dark highway.

As the suspect was getting out of the car (unharmed) he started to try to run away and was reaching towards the waistband on his pants. It turns out that the suspect did not have a gun that he was trying to reach for, he was just trying to pull up his pants as he was trying to get away. The cop shot him, though I have heard last night that the cop actually didn't hit him but shot at him 3 times.

But as my friends and I were just talking about last night, I said "What would you have done in that situation?" And one of my friends, who has previously actually been on the wrong side of the law said "I would have wasted that guy.", which is understandable. If you tell someone to not move, put your hands in the air where I can see them, and they start reaching down to where a lot of criminals are KNOWN to hide a gun... I'd say that it is fair to say that they perhaps could be armed and possibly kill you. The guy led him on a high speed chase and still tried to get away after he crashed his car. Leads me to believe that this guy reeeeally didn't want to get caught! Like he would try to do anything to get out of it.

And this guy was only running from the police because he didn't want to get a DUI since he had been drinking. And look at what ended up happening!

 

[NCChief]

I have a lot of friends on the county and city forces. I shot Cowboy Action with 2 of them for years until they both retired and moved up north to different parts of the state. Several others stop in my store frequently just to say hi. The only officer I ever had any problems with was a state trooper - in Wisconsin they have no authority except traffic and I think that makes them a bit nuts lol. The county and city guys all make fun of the state boys.

Yeah...we call our Troopers "Grey Gods", because that is what they think they are. They are pretty good though.

NCC

 

[chad]

There's waaay too much cop bashing in this thread. I think it's unfortunate that it's so easy to look at a few bad examples and use them as a template for everyone who's decided too take a position in law enforcement. It's too bad it doesn't work the other way as well.

The world isn't black and white (pun intended); there are varying shades. Not all laws are bad and not all law enforcement officers are bad. Sure we've got way too many laws on the books and certainly there are officers who are abusive but hell, I've met abusive car mechanics and apartment managers. Of course, in those lines of work, they don't carry guns - which changes the argument some.

I'd agree with NCChief that even with irrefutable (sarcasm here) evidence like a video, there's usually no way to know what transpired before an event. I've posted a couple videos here of police using excessive force but, for every one of those, there are literally thousands of other officers who exercise good judgment and handle matters appropriately - daily.

Just keep in mind there are many violent people in the world and police deal with them on a continuing basis (all day, everyday) - it's too easy to become jaded and feel like everyone is a threat. That said, even disregarding my views on government (there's way too much of it), I'm glad there are people who have chosen a job which aims to to reduce infringement on other people's life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I think statistically speaking police generally do more good than bad.

All that said, It's still incumbent on us as citizens to "police" the police to make sure they're operating within their bounds, are not infringing on rights themselves, and are able to know the bad guys from the good guys and treat them accordingly. It's also our responsibility to make sure we don't pass stupid laws that require police to waste time and resources on trivial, non-violent, and morality based law enforcement. As part of our responsibilities we should also go to great lengths not to generalize an entire career choice based on the stupidity or thuggishness (is that a word?) of a few bad apples.

I always kind of feel embarrassed when I see wanton cop bashing.

 

[Superstargoddess]

There's waaay too much cop bashing in this thread. I think it's unfortunate that it's so easy to look at a few bad examples and use them as a template for everyone who's decided too take a position in law enforcement. It's too bad it doesn't work the other way as well.

Exactly. Just because I have heard horror stories about different OB/GYN's and my old OB/GYN got into trouble for messing with one of his patients (not me, he was always sweet as could be to me. Had a feeling that he liked me, but he never did anything or said anything to me that was inappropriate) but I do not sit around and say that all OB/GYN's are perverted scumbags that are out to molest women.

And a police officer and a doctor are both in the business of protecting and helping people, so I see that as a very good comparison. No matter if it's a police officer using excessive force, a doctor molesting their patients, a dirty judge taking money to let a criminal go, or a fast food worker spitting in food- it's all the same thing. Some people are like that, some people aren't, doesn't matter what type of job they are in. There isn't ever going to be any profession where everyone is good and there isn't ever going to be any profession where everyone is bad.

Even in the movie John Q (2002) Denzel's character is doing a very criminal act, making him a criminal, but the reason for his action was a good one. So you could even say that not all criminals are technically bad. (I know that it's just a movie, but I'm sure that type of stuff happens somewhere from time to time)

The point is, we shouldn't even be having this discussion because a thing like this cannot be based on an absolute fact. And that's a fact!

 

[chrisl317]

Mmmm. In a work environment, including teaching, random testing could only be done if it's in the employment contract (meaning the employee has already agreed to it as part of that contract). If not you can't be made to take a drug test and be fired if you refuse, and you certainly can't force people to take them against their will, that's assault. To bring in random testing when it wasn't present before requires a change to their employment contract, and the employees are well in their rights to refuse. So employers don't 'get away with random drug testing', the employees consent to it. Suspicionless random drug testing of a person without their consent is not allowed by constitution, and that principle is still valid.

Unless you live in an "At-Will" state, then any reason for non-compliance with your employer's wishes is reason for termination. Experience talking here!

 

[NCChief]

You go girl!!

 

[chrisl317]

So, we are to believe that a police officer who knows this device isn't illegal also knows that even if it was it would be out of his jurisdiction. Why did he stop by then?


At the least the police officer has abridged the op's constitutional rights at the worst he is guilty of police harassment.

In my locale, any law enforncement that recieves a complaint has to make out a report on it, whether the crime or alledged crime falls within his jurisdiction or not. Around here, that usually means at least a knock on the door.

 

[chrisl317]

No warrant - (through the door without answering it) "I don't think I can talk to you right now without an attorney present"

"I was in fear for my life!"

and the video from Law Professor Duane! Don't talk to the Police!

 

[chrisl317]

When we come to your door to tell you a loved one has just been killed, we will just leave a note on your door. Look for the little yellow sticky.

I'll meet you at the hospital or the morgue.

Police are allowed to LIE in the course of their investigation.

Not to bash all police, but, the same techniques that are used on hardened felons are the same techniques used on your average every day smoe who just happens to innocently screw-up from time to time.
Also, anything I say can be used against me in a court of law, but, anything good I tell the police won't be used for my defense. It will be labeled as hersay by the prosecution.

 

[chrisl317]

Excellent point! If it is on the Internet it HAS to be true. Bwahahaha!!

BTW, since you "Googled" it, I take it you were at all of the scenes and have all of the facts of each event.

I live outside of Detroit. Google, Detroit police shoot mentally handicapped man who charges them with rake. We have many officially recorded instances here in Michigan.

 

[Superstargoddess]

You go girl!!

Was that for me?

chrisl317- Yes, I have heard that they are allowed to lie. But you know what? As long as it gets the criminal off the streets, into jail, and away from my family and friends- I really don't give a crap!

 

[NCChief]

I live outside of Detroit. Google, Detroit police shoot mentally handicapped man who charges them with rake. We have many officially recorded instances here in Michigan.

Good for them. If I am charged at with a steel tooth rake, expect the same outcome.

I highly doubt that the assailant wore a shirt or had a sign on him stating "I am mentally handicapped - Don't shoot me for attacking you".

 

[NCChief]

Was that for me?

Yup! That was for you!

 

[Superstargoddess]

Good for them. If I am charged at with a steel tooth rake, expect the same outcome.

I highly doubt that the assailant wore a shirt or had a sign on him stating "I am mentally handicapped - Don't shoot me for attacking you".

Yeah I'm sure that he didn't! But even if he was acting crazy or mentally ......ed, don't people who are on some drugs act a bit like that too? I would say that unless some of his family came up and told the police "He is mentally handicapped, please don't hurt him" that the police wouldn't know if he was crazy, mentally handicapped, or just on drugs.

 

[NCChief]

Yeah I'm sure that he didn't! But even if he was acting crazy or mentally ......ed, don't people who are on some drugs act a bit like that too? I would say that unless some of his family came up and told the police "He is mentally handicapped, please don't hurt him" that the police wouldn't know if he was crazy, mentally handicapped, or just on drugs.

Yup. An assailant is an assailant. Just because they are mentally handicapped doesn't mean they won't hurt or kill you.

One of my best friends was shot in the head by a mentally handicapped person who's family deemed him harmless. He was so harmless, 7 hours later, Chief Hathaway was pronounced dead.

 

[SLDS181]

Good for them. If I am charged at with a steel tooth rake, expect the same outcome.

I highly doubt that the assailant wore a shirt or had a sign on him stating "I am mentally handicapped - Don't shoot me for attacking you".

Apparently deaf people don't wear signs either, so its ok that they've been it with pepper spray, tazed, and shot because they didn't hear and react to police?

I've got tons of issues with what you said. See, he wasn't coming at the cops with a rake, he had one in his hands. And the cops yelled for him to put down the rake....

Which he didn't hear, because he was deaf. He faced them, and was shot. So what was that comment about all the facts?

The simple fact is, there is by far too much of this. Its a real damn problem. Always supporting the actions of cops is just as ridiculously damn stupid as always considering them at fault, and its best no one forgets that.