The ECA Disclosed

[nycsublimegirl]

I think this has the potential to be a great thing and I applaud all the suppliers behind it. They're trying to do what's been needing to be done for quite some time now, and I believe their intentions are honorable.

I do think that this should be (at least partially) a voluntary effort on behalf of the suppliers/manufacturers that wish to take part as opposed to forcing regulation on the industry. At RTV we had discussed a seal for companies that met certain criteria. Perhaps you could create a clear set of objectives that companies could adhere to, and if they do they will be able to use the seal (correct marketing terms, correct labeling and packaging, prevention of underage purchases, etc.). You could make the list visible on you're website as well. Ultimately, it would be up to the consumers to purchase from the companies listed.

Marketing claims are one exception that I believe everyone should adhere to. There's no excuse to be using health/quit smoking claims at this point in the game, and it's too easy of a fix not to. I think at the least SJ should not give supplier forums to those who make these claims as they're hurting the industry and helping to promote them is only making it worse.

I wonder if Ruyan, Smoking Everywhere, njoy, and the Chinese manufacturers will also get on board. Has the organization contacted them?

that's exactly where we have have been going with this ...membership is completely optional... and those members will be given a seal to put on their site and on their packaging. to certify that they have met all the safety criteria as well as marketing terminology .....with full disclosure on who those members are on the ECA website... We are not trying to say you have to join! ...but rather why wouldn't you want to come join us?

We are simply talking safety and limitation on marketing claims...

We have no intentions on price fixing or any other such thing....as much as we have all come together to form this...we are all still very much competitive on the business end of things

 

[Retina_Burn]

I have to agree with Taukimada on this one. People need to realize that these suppliers have been practicing unethical business practices for a long time. That is why we are now in this situation. Consumers are not really in trouble here. All the FDA is able to do is prohibit the Marketing and Sale of these items from the US. We'll still be able to order, get and use these products from any country that allows sale of them. So, in essence, the ECA is going to lobby and use this organization for funds to do so because it will minimize the amount of profit that they have to spend and will get them more customers by shining this holy light of "We are working for the betterment of the ecig community." I'm calling BS on all this. I had a few questions about business practices, business structure and intentions which I haven't really seen answered yet. These are the same type of things that I ask when a group tries to start reform of or try to "better" the community I live in.

Lobbyists have been primarily used for the use of passing or reforming legislation that effects the profits of those companies that sell in a specific industry. I'll side with Kate on this one. http://www.righttovape.com/ seems to be the place I'll be starting my activist role at. Buyers beware. Time to face the music, ye businesses of little moral persuasion. These unethical business practices have finally caught up with you. Did you people really think that the FDA was going to let continue to sell in this way? At this point, you should be spending some of that profit to be hiring a lawyer for a class action suppliers suit against the FDA. And trust me boys and girls, the defense on that one won't hesitate to mention how you people had been doing this. Have any of the owners of these businesses actual been to a business ethics class? There are reasons why the FDA was given authority to do things like this.

I for one think that they have not made any comment as to whether or not this is going to be non-profit because it won't be. There will be many ways to get around any FDA ban to market these as a re purposed unit and the juice as a not for human consumption product, as I plan on doing if I ever actually find the time to invest in something like this. Consumers will be able to get these products as long as china is willing to make them. The FDA is not making them illegal to import for personal use. I think we should all be focusing or efforts and money into helping advance the research on these so that we may market these in suitable ways. We should be supporting things like that. We should be collaborating with manufacturers on this one and a non-profit organization should be at the helm helping to raise and distribute the man-power and monetary funds that are donated.

This looks to be just another lobbyist group. A wolf in a sheep's clothing. There is a reason that the new administration is trying their best to castrate all the lobbyists. These are businesses trying to secure their profits while trying to increase overhead as little as they can. I mean, seriously, starting up a business and reaping 200%+ markup on merchandise with as low of overhead you can possibly get is something I would be trying to secure as well.

 

[Malicedoll]

ok.. i have a question.. is the ECA working with the FDA to help prevent a ban of liquid nicotine and ele-cigs if certain criteria are met with regards to the product? Ex - no health claims, childproof caps and proper lables?

Does the ECA have an agenda to set up meetings with the FDA or other government agency to help gather resources regarding testing or other data necessary to help assist with keeping the product available?

Don't get me wrong.. i think the safety issues and all that are excellent ideas and should be addressed.. just curious what is on the agenda other than.. "we'll get non-profit status and then everyone can send in money that we will use for.... something eventually"

 

[ApOsTle51]

Original post:



Hey guys and gals. This is X from "some suplliers website", and I want to let you all know that the future of vaping is indeed in jeopardy. Please follow the link below for more information on the matter, and help us (and yourselves) FIGHT FOR OUR RIGHT TO VAPE!

link below is link to their website, which give you this:

Bloog Facts:



Feels Exactly Like Smoking!


Choices of Zero to full nicotine.

NO Tar

NO Known Carcinogens

Equal or less than the cost of Cigarettes

Inhale Mostly Water (vapor)

NO Risk of fire related accidents while Blooging.
NO Second hand smoke!

NO Unpleasant odor in the air, or on clothes - hair - breath

NO Yellow teeth or fingers

NO Bans on where you can Bloog anywhere in the USA!
No cigarette butts, ashes, air pollution - NO carbon monoxide released into the atmosphere



"I bought the Bloog on the shear hope that it could live up to its promises. Being a pack a day smoker for 13 years by the age of 28, I had many doubts that anything could satisfy me the way cigarettes did...However my first day with the bloog I only smoked 6 real cigarettes...without even trying! I was smoking the Bloog, but there was no fire?! It was so cool that right away i wanted to just throw my regular cigs out! You want to smoke the bloog...it feels the same but tastes better! by the end of my first week i was completely done with regular cigarettes!!! in fact now they turn me off when i smell then. When i feel the need to smoke I just pick up my Bloog and am comforted to know that my lungs are now healthy....Bloog you have literally

saved my Health!!!!"
- Toni - NYC read more



MY REACTION:

How can you claim these things?

YES the future of vaping is in jeopardy due to your claims!





Added by "X" after my reaction:



edit: forgot to add the forum link Now is the Time To Act! I am Serious!



----------------------------------------------------------------

I still stand for my reaction. This kind of irresponsible business practice and the claims made is cause for FDA to ban the device, it's liquids and cartridges.



Think twice before you use the fear of a ban that reigns on this forum for your marketing techniques!

Is bloog your site nycsublimegirl ? If it is , seems strange your orchastrating this whilst the above is linked to your site....

 

[strayling]

Good luck, I think a trade association of some form is an excellent idea.

Having said that, if you plan to use the post from the top of the thread as a basis for communicating with legislators I'd like to suggest a couple of changes.

[FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]The Electronic Cigarette Association (ECA) is comprised of international manufactures, suppliers, resellers and consumers who are dedicated to the advancement of electronic smoking ... [/FONT]

Ok, stop right there. This is *not* smoking and that should be made clear at the outset.
[FONT="]
[/FONT][quote="ECA, post: 202228"][FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]We have every intention of working hand in hand with the FDA, but would like to be considered a self-regulating industry, just as the homeopathic industry has done.[/FONT]
[/quote]

Any comparison with homeopathy is going to set a lot of scientists and doctors against you. Could you find a different role model?
[FONT="]
[/FONT][quote="ECA, post: 202228"][FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]We have a short amount of time, but everything we have in our arson will need to be used. [/FONT]
[/quote]

 

[Kate]

A trade association would be great, lets hope this turns into one.

There is a little bit of background discussion about this here also for anyone interested - http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/e-cigarette-suppliers-forum/8877-future-ecigs.html

 

[Retina_Burn]

"Dues" and "Fees" should have been on everyone's radar. What real activist group would charge people to be a member. Encouraging people to donate manpower and money is the only way. Donations of this to a non-profit. It's the same rule I use when helping any cause.

 

[Caesarea]

Strayling wrote:

"Originally Posted by ECA
We have a short amount of time, but everything we have in our arson will need to be used.
"


Yes : No smoke without fire....

 

[nycsublimegirl]

"I apologize, I had no right to speak for the association, and therefore, will not post anymore. As soon as the association is formed we will let everyone know our full intentions"

 

[Lika]

I've been trying to get traders to co-operate with RtV for a while now Lika and not one has responded to a simple question - http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...8400-association-manufacturers-suppliers.html

They are a group of vested interests but think they are a campaign group - this thread is on the campaign forum.

Not once did they consult the community about what they should be doing and now they have taken on anything and everything ... at least as far as the US is concerned ... we are supposed to sign up and do what we're told?

No, I agree with you Kate 100%. I was being a bit sarcastic as I'm sure you know

I'll take it a step further and say... Us Americans like to take control. We're big, no we're bigger than big. We are GOD himself because our dollar is in his trust. Everything we do do affects the entire world. We like being on top (haha) while everone else takes a knee or preferably bends over. Most of that is done via "business as usual" in other words it has become the expected.

Our pockets are so deep we can refinance failed financiers at the drop of a hat so they can go buy a new shiny private plane and jet off to some exotic location to bask in the lifestyle of the greedy and infamous. But money really means nothing to us. Our dollar value has plummeted and we owe other countries more money than can ever be paid back. Yet they still sell to us piling on the debt. Why? Because we are it, the top dog, and everyone does what we say. We don't care if we owe trillions because if you try to collect we'll nuke your .... It's all about attitude, baby.

Heck, we Americans have even taken over by mass alone and influenced this forum. Smokey Joe said it himself and has appeared to cave in to the ECA before he even knows if they have a leg to stand on.

Guess I'm not feeling very patriotic today - sorry. Now what were you saying, Kate?

 

[nycsublimegirl]

Is bloog your site nycsublimegirl ? If it is , seems strange your orchastrating this whilst the above is linked to your site....

That was a testimonial ....not a marketing claim...however yes many have felt by choosing to post it is marketing....and i can't really disagree that is why we have choosen to remove it ...we are launching a new site monday or tuesday of this comming week where it will no longer appear....

I have left that thread up in my forum.... I do not want to hide anything....

 

[strayling]

A trade association would be great, lets hope this turns into one.

Speaking as a customer, not a supplier, I wish them well.

A unified voice to represent the industry to government is needed IMO, but let's remember that with the best will in the world it will still be representing the *industry*, not necessarily the industry's customers.

 

[nycsublimegirl]

ok.. i have a question.. is the ECA working with the FDA to help prevent a ban of liquid nicotine and ele-cigs if certain criteria are met with regards to the product? Ex - no health claims, childproof caps and proper lables?

Does the ECA have an agenda to set up meetings with the FDA or other government agency to help gather resources regarding testing or other data necessary to help assist with keeping the product available?

Don't get me wrong.. i think the safety issues and all that are excellent ideas and should be addressed.. just curious what is on the agenda other than.. "we'll get non-profit status and then everyone can send in money that we will use for.... something eventually"

edit: "I apologize, I had no right to speak for the association, and therefore, will not post anymore. As soon as the association is formed we will let everyone know our full intentions"

 

[Kate]

That's one of my points Stray, they are vested interests but seem to think they can run a charity.

It's early days yet and hopefully they will represent their own interests and not try to imply they can do everything.

I'm sure they will be welcomed at RtV if they want to join the rest of us.

EDIT
Lika, it's not an unusual attitude for powerful countries, the British imperial machine was pretty much the same. In the end it will be dismantled, it's unsustainable and exclusive. China is predicted to be the next main world power apparently.

 

[nycsublimegirl]

"Dues" and "Fees" should have been on everyone's radar. What real activist group would charge people to be a member. Encouraging people to donate manpower and money is the only way. Donations of this to a non-profit. It's the same rule I use when helping any cause.

No one is forced to become a member... any consumer member or non-member alike can participate with the ECA and their sponsored community group under formation Web hosting, domain name registration and web services by 1&1 Internet

You can be a member and pay dues or simply a supporter with a donation of money or time... or just participate in the goings on like several "vape-in's" / vapathons that are in the works...

 

[OutWest]

The idea is to work in tandem with the FDA ... to simply find the CORRECT classification....

We would not be opposed to following any reasonable standards.

Not to hijack, or even sidetrack the thread, but I still cant help but think we need to get ecigs classified as a tobacco product and thus keep it out of the hands of the FDA.

 

[nycsublimegirl]

A word about SJ...

He has been kind enough to have grant us a forum.....it has been private from the public while were in the process of forming as I am sure you can understand ... there is more then likely going to be a public ECA forum...the board just has to finalize the vote on that....

but that being said he has been privy to the "behind the scenes" goings on...so he is a little more informed then you may be giving him credit for.

 

[ApOsTle51]

A word about SJ...

He has been kind enough to have grant us a forum.....it has been private from the public while were in the process of forming as I am sure you can understand ... there is more then likely going to be a public ECA forum...the board just has to finalize the vote on that....

but that being said he has been privy to the "behind the scenes" goings on...so he is a little more informed then you may be giving him credit for.

Who is actually on "the board" ? I'd like to know exactly who are those that are trying to influence my spending habits.

btw. I'm Glad Jason @ totally wicked isn't on that suppliers list. He's the first guy that's been doing all this testing , Packaging and chip compliance and he certainly didn't need any Association telling him to do it.

 

[bizzyb0t]

No one is forced to become a member... any consumer member or non-member alike can participate with the ECA and their sponsored community group under formation Web hosting, domain name registration and web services by 1&1 Internet

You can be a member and pay dues or simply a supporter with a donation of money or time... or just participate in the goings on like several "vape-in's" / vapathons that are in the works...

Oh no, you guys are using 1&1

Just want to say that I have used them in past and they SUUUUUUCK. I much prefer

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or

GeekStorage.com - Web Hosting For Geeks, By Geeks

 

[Lika]

Please excuse my rant on US big government and big business. It was not meant towards ECA but just a reference that the attitude does tend to trickle down to small business as well. Even my own. I don't deny it.

I do have a question for ECA though. Why have you not contacted RTV? That group has been trying to form an organization for a while now. Don't you think it might be best to join forces rather than take a sole interest in both the seller and the consumer sides of the coin. The more validated organizations on one side of the fence the more clout any initiative holds. Ideally there would be a trade organization as well as a consumer organization. Do you not agree?