The Elephant in the Room
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Ideally, I believe vapor products should have their own category and guidelines.
Barring that, using the TCA regulations, supposedly showing that an e-liquid is not more harmful than something that came before it should be sufficient, if you ignore all the nonsense about not leading users to use this product instead of quitting altogether.
I'm sure the FDA could do that if they wanted to. I also don't believe that they want to. They'd rather compare vaping with already approved NRTs, and argue that vaping is more dangerous than something that came before it, instead of comparing vaping with smoking. The reason is simple: BT and BP currently pump more money into campaign contributions and lobbying than the vaping industry does. To make them change their minds, what's really required is a couple of truly massive vaping companies, on the scale of BT or BP, to outspend on lobbying. Unfortunately, no such companies exist at the present time.
I think NJOY is the closest thing we have. SFATA and the other one(can't remember the name, starts with an A) have the potential, but will probably never be big enough to compete on a money/lobbying scale as BT and BP. CASAA, being a consumer group, works within the realm of public awareness/opinion, which is great but doesn't necessarily earn them a seat at the table with the FDA. It's depressing.
BTW, NRTs have no mitigating benefits either, if you consider the fact that they aren't effective at producing the results they are supposedly marketed to produce. BP sure does have a lot of money to pay those application fees though.
This has been going on so long I'm beginning to doubt my memory, but believe the FDA is not allowed to call it (vaping) a medical device due to them losing in court.
Hey, you're preaching to the choir
I tried all of them but Chantix, and none of them worked for me. But the important part is not whether they're effective or not, the important part is that the FDA has been "convinced" that they're effective. The fact that "convincing" the FDA had more to do with lobbying and paying application fees than it did with scientific evidence is something we should be mindful of when we're discussing what regulations on the vaping industry are likely to be forthcoming.
To state it bluntly: In America, people get the regulation they're willing to pay for.
Referring to the NJOY video, sure we can split hairs about the ppm or ppb.... What I find interesting is that the company who has been in this a while and has a large stake in the game is openly disclosing, talking about, and willing to produce test results. And they've successfully challenged the FDA and won one already. They aren't trying to avoid the issue, and I am pretty certain they market based on 18 plus. The discussion was insightful on a lot of levels. Collectively the e liquid companies need this level of professionalism, experience, and political pull.
At the 11 minute mark, notice that a former Surgeon General of the US and vocal opponent of BT is on NJOYs board of directors. Think about that for a minute. That brings serious legitimacy to their cause and hopefully to the cause of the broader community.
At the 11 minute mark, notice that a former Surgeon General of the US and vocal opponent of BT is on NJOYs board of directors. Think about that for a minute. That brings serious legitimacy to their cause and hopefully to the cause of the broader community.
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If traditional NRT systems didn't work for enough people, the companies selling them wouldn't spend so much money developing and marketing them. Products which don't work generally don't stay in the marketplace for long...
Some studies say that NRTs are between 50% and 70% effective. Other studies say the numbers are closer to 15%, which is about the same rate as a motivated quitter on a placebo. Basically, if your scientists are sufficiently motivated, most of them can produce whatever numbers you want them to produce, just by altering sample sizes and compositions, excluding or selecting members from particular groups, and generally fudging the data. The fact that some percentage of NRT users permanently switch from cigarettes to NRTs, and never quit NRTs means that there's a steady revenue from those products. Lots of people spend lots of money on holistic medicines every year, even though there's conflicting evidence about whether they're effective or not. All that's needed for a product to stay in the marketplace is for enough people to buy it every year.
How long has the patch been around? Don't think they give a damn about how well it works as long as they are making a bundle off it.
FlamingoTutu,
PM sent on the NJOY vid. I am running out the door....but thanks for posting it in here. It was an eye opener for me.
PM sent on the NJOY vid. I am running out the door....but thanks for posting it in here. It was an eye opener for me.
I found this article comparing the effectiveness of quitting cold turkey to NRTs to be tremendously interesting, and you might as well.
They do work well for some. For some they work so well, they use them every time they quit.
if it didn't work for enough people, they would find themselves without customers after a while...
Not everyone had a sincere desire or the internal fortitude to quit...
If you have the sincere desire and/or internal fortitude, cold turkey is actually more effective, according to the article PapaSloth posted.
You're also ignoring the fact people start smoking every day, so there is a near limitless supply of those wanting to quit, who are willing to try anything, regardless of its effectiveness. If NRTs were as effective as people seem to think they are, smoking would be near extinction by now, given how long they've been on the market.
People are trying to quit every day. I bought the patch and gum. Neither worked. Seems like half the people here have tried them with no luck. Some use them to hold them over on plane trips. They seem to sell just fine, just not work so well for most people. Three cheers for the 15% (if that high) that quit. How many people go back to smoking after a couple of years. My only point is they will last as long as enough people buy them to make a good profit.
I smoked while using the gum and patch. So yeah, I found them completely useless. Vaping is the ONLY thing that has gotten me completely off cigarettes.
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