There is not just ONE elephant in the room!

[EBates]

What about the pink elephant??

They're common as dirt, not to worry. DUCK HERE COMES ANOTHER ONE. Didn't know they could fly.

 

[Norrin]

I bought 3 bottles of liquid over the weekend from very reputable B&M stores. 3 different brands (premium brands) and the lack of information on the bottles is scary. I left a bottle on my desk at work today and caught a Co worker checking it out. It smelled great he said, could he taste it. He thought it was some sort of candy. That wouldn't have ended well had he taken a few dropper fulls down his throat.

I see this changing and changing fast. All it takes is One kid to down a bottle of juice that looks like a bottle of candy.

.

Well since nicotine isn't that poisonous what harm would it do?
It's virtually impossible to kill yourself by ingesting nicotine as you would just throw up, that said it would make you ill and YOUNG children don't have the same gag reflex so that is the only real danger. But it's the same as any household cleaner or bleach only a complete ..... would leave it where kids can get it.

I'm all for tamper proof bottles with danger labels and whatever else is needed, but at the end of the day it's the responsibility of the user to keep it in a safe place.

 

[sub4me]

Whatever the elephants in the room may be, uncritically regurgitating ANTZ propaganda and other slurry disguised as "studies" isn't likely to expose them. What we need is a neutral discussion of the evidence, most importantly pruning away conflicted and junk studies gushing from the tobacco control industry and other interests vested in the continuation of the tobacco gravy train.

Then, we need to find realistic problems with vaping and come up with actionable and equitable solutions. Mindless bleating of thoroughly debunked ANTZ lies about "cyanide", "antifreeze", and "children" is not helping improve the safety of vaping. Real problems relate to potential unsafe use of batteries (that's on the user), potentially harmful flavors in juice (see research by Dr. F), materials safety for atomizer construction (wicking, wire, casing, etc.), and investigating vaporization temperature during realistic vaping conditions.

Finally, and in spite of alarmist and unsubstantiated propaganda from conflicted special interest groups, vapor product advertising is not about "appeal to kids" or "making it look cool". Rather, it's informing smokers about an attractive alternative that's 100-1000 times safer than smoking. The ads are necessary to distinguish the highly effective and appealing vaping alternative from the disgusting and ineffective NRT products (which, by the way, are allowed to be aggressively promoted by BP everywhere, including during prime-time on cable networks). Therefore, advertising for vaping should be encouraged and disseminated widely, including via public service announcements.

If vaping becomes a medically accepted smoking cessation device then maybe you will see that. Until then you can keep blaming the TV stations, lol, how silly.

 

[six]

ask the[redacted]sharp implement making making industry.

Wonderful example. And, if you were a sharp instrument aficionado of any sort, you would be well aware that as far as general production sharp instruments, Taiwanese Is way more desirable than Chinese... and Japanese is generally way more desirable than Taiwanese... and German, Swiss, US, and Norwegian are still a cut above (yup - pun intended) that. For custom stuff, well... it gets a little stickier, but that order of desirability largely holds true but for the fact you can add a few origin countries to the "cut above" list.... Your example can be seriously considered very close to e-cig mods in that respect. ... I know you didn't mean it to be, but in all reality it actually is pretty much spot on.

 

[ScottP]

Well since nicotine isn't that poisonous what harm would it do?
It's virtually impossible to kill yourself by ingesting nicotine as you would just throw up, that said it would make you ill and YOUNG children don't have the same gag reflex so that is the only real danger. But it's the same as any household cleaner or bleach only a complete ..... would leave it where kids can get it.

I'm all for tamper proof bottles with danger labels and whatever else is needed, but at the end of the day it's the responsibility of the user to keep it in a safe place.

There has been one single death from ejuice. However it was a suicide and the person injected the liquid directly into their veins. That is not something that could happen by accident.

 

[beckdg]

I'm all for tamper proof bottles with danger labels and whatever else is needed, but at the end of the day it's the responsibility of the user to keep it in a safe place.

LOL (subject matter laugh)

My mother gets my children to open her child proof caps for her. They're 10 and 7 and this has been going on for years.

Sent from my device.

 

[BLUwazoo]

What we need is a neutral discussion of the evidence, most importantly pruning away conflicted and junk studies gushing from the tobacco control industry and other interests vested in the continuation of the tobacco gravy train.
Then, we need to find realistic problems with vaping and come up with actionable and equitable solutions. Mindless bleating of thoroughly debunked ANTZ lies about "cyanide", "antifreeze", and "children" is not helping improve the safety of vaping. Real problems relate to potential unsafe use of batteries (that's on the user), potentially harmful flavors in juice (see research by Dr. F), materials safety for atomizer construction (wicking, wire, casing, etc.), and investigating vaporization temperature during realistic vaping conditions.

Thank you very much to those who provided thoughtful responses to this thread. There were many excellent points made. But I think that this, in particular, is a nice framework for an actionable plan. The propaganda and bad studies are out there and they're going to be discussed. But we can make an effort to be educated on the subject and propose reasonable plans for dealing with any legitimate concerns. Otherwise, I'm afraid the UNreasonable proposals will end up being implemented.

 

[Jman8]

There is the safety issue of the devices themselves. Many of us have probably met the guy who is a complete novice to vaping who nevertheless immediately goes out and gets himself a mech mod and a RDA and probably has no idea how to build a proper coil or even the foggiest idea of how to use an ohm meter. So, he immediately builds himself a bad coil that has a short in it and installs it in his new mech mod with an el-cheapo Chinese battery. He has, essentially, built himself a pipe bomb and doesn’t even know it. You can already Google “e-cig explosion” and see examples of these things blowing up. How fast do you think it will take the general public to have an over-the-top negative reaction when they hear the word “pipe bomb” and realize that these things – in the wrong hands – can literally explode in your face?

There are a lot of complete novices who have bought vaping gear and not had it explode ever, anywhere. If we are being reasonable, we'd compare the statistics of those that have had exploding eCig equipment to those that have not. I reckon from that comparison, we'd see that it is a million to 1 chance that eCig equipment could explode on the user. Now, let's compare that to automobiles, or phones, or TV's, or so on and so forth.

The issue of safety for the devices is between virtually no problem and incredibly rare problem. Still, we could encourage both buyers and sellers to get informed during purchase of new equipment, even while recognizing that there will likely always be exceptions to the extremely low rate of problems with devices.

There is the issue of the absolute lack of quality control in China, which covers everything from the e-juices that are made there to the physical devices that we buy to vape on. There have been e-juices tested that include dangerous chemicals like cyanide and ammonia. How many of these bad e-juices does it take before the whole vaping movement gets slurred by the findings?

In answer to the rhetorical question, I would say a lot more than what has currently occurred. If quality of juice (from China or anywhere) were truly a significant problem, then us vapers would be able to cite several cases and/or likely know people who have been gravely harmed. As it stands, I cannot do this myself and I feel fairly aware of the vaping community. US has zero jurisdiction for quality control in China and yet US vendors that purchase from Chinese companies and sell to American consumers (primarily) realize that they best be checking for quality on items/batches sent to them, or face American justice (read as high potential for lawsuits).

This line of reasoning (that vaping industry lacks quality control and it is a problem) is one I find questionable and that I feel it is most appropriate to have citations provided. Then balance that with the umpteen thousand non-issues that many vapers either experience or are aware of. Imagine if a database existed for every time a vaper finished a bottle of liquid and the quality was deemed acceptable or higher. I reckon it would be another situation of a million to 1 chance that a vaper would be vaping something that is unacceptable.

Much was made in the seminar about the fact that e-cigs could potentially make smoking seem “cool” again, after years of hard work trying to make them less appealing. Some of the ads for e-cigs look very much like the cigarette ads of the 60’s and 70’s, before these kinds of ads started to be banned. Do we really want companies to be allowed to make vaping look “sexy” when it has still yet to be determined that they are truly “safe” in the long term?

Other than products clearly and strictly marketed to kids, it seems very few will not resort to good looking (sexy) people promoting the product to you. What consumer wants to buy a product because it is uncool and mundane to have/use it? Making vaping / vape products appear cool / sexy seems like par for the course when it comes to marketing 101.

And yet, with all that said, I believe if I did google search on "ecig products" - I could find a whole lot of vendors that aren't using sexy people to get the message across about how their products work and why their value is best.