I prefer to buy things once, rather than over and over again. Sometimes the cheapest items end up not being the least expensive...
The ethics of "Made in USA" on clones
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That usually is the best decision.
Where I'm personally at is all I use to buy two years ago was the expensive mods. Then I stayed away from the whole vape scene for a year or so and decided to pop in. I seen all these China clones that looked pretty nice and some was getting good reviews. So I did a tad of research and bought a few Chinese mechs and atties. Turns out I was quite surprised by all of them, both performance and the aesthetics. Sadly they perform better than some of my mods that cost 4 times as much. Granted I can't sell them for $600 like some of the the mods that cost me $200, but at least I have some very satisfying vape setups that I don't have to be so .... about them.
But there's no doubt that nothing beats holding a rare, brand new, top of the line mod that costs an arm and a leg.
I'm not a fan of the fraud aspect of Chinese clones. Boyfriend has a great collection of both originals and clones.
While I would love to only support original manufacturers, we will still likely buy clones from time to time because:
1. He is almost equally excited when he gets a clone to test out, as when he has a much more expensive model. The reward to $ ratio is fairly even in this regard.
2. Wanting a new toy to play with but waiting for a specific original to come out (provari 3, and waiting for the DNA30s to come down in price a little.)
3. I'm a klutz, but I don't even care when I drop something so I don't really consider myself a klutz, so let's just say gravity and I get along together REALLY well.
I don't need Boyfriend getting mad at me dropping a $200+ unit rather than a $15 one (though he'd still be miffed. He clearly doesn't have as close of a relationship
with gravity as I do. I think he's just jealous.)
4. Theft, or forgetting. This will likely happen sometime. His or my day won't be ruined by something that's only worth $15 getting lost or stolen. The RDA/RBA though is another story
5. Boyfriend is not adverse to buying original if he likes the clone, so original companies might actually make money where they wouldn't normally.
6. He can .... around with his own "modding" without worrying too much about ruining an investment (he's likely going to try blue-patina-ing a copper mod I got him.)
7. Giving things away-- in terms of paying it forward, online or in real life, I do feel that it's easier to help someone else get introduced to vaping (or help along their vaping if they're broke) with clones.
While my boyfriend is his own person, and makes his own decisions, I know I do have an influence over what he buys and what he feels is "worth it."
I would absolutely have no problem with him buying another provari, buzzpro, or dna-incarnation (but I also don't want them just sitting around looking pretty either.)
With clones he can fulfill the occasional monthly gimme-gimmes by ordering something by mail.
While I would love to only support original manufacturers, we will still likely buy clones from time to time because:
1. He is almost equally excited when he gets a clone to test out, as when he has a much more expensive model. The reward to $ ratio is fairly even in this regard.
2. Wanting a new toy to play with but waiting for a specific original to come out (provari 3, and waiting for the DNA30s to come down in price a little.)
3. I'm a klutz, but I don't even care when I drop something so I don't really consider myself a klutz, so let's just say gravity and I get along together REALLY well.
I don't need Boyfriend getting mad at me dropping a $200+ unit rather than a $15 one (though he'd still be miffed. He clearly doesn't have as close of a relationship
with gravity as I do. I think he's just jealous.)
4. Theft, or forgetting. This will likely happen sometime. His or my day won't be ruined by something that's only worth $15 getting lost or stolen. The RDA/RBA though is another story
5. Boyfriend is not adverse to buying original if he likes the clone, so original companies might actually make money where they wouldn't normally.
6. He can .... around with his own "modding" without worrying too much about ruining an investment (he's likely going to try blue-patina-ing a copper mod I got him.)
7. Giving things away-- in terms of paying it forward, online or in real life, I do feel that it's easier to help someone else get introduced to vaping (or help along their vaping if they're broke) with clones.
While my boyfriend is his own person, and makes his own decisions, I know I do have an influence over what he buys and what he feels is "worth it."
I would absolutely have no problem with him buying another provari, buzzpro, or dna-incarnation (but I also don't want them just sitting around looking pretty either.)
With clones he can fulfill the occasional monthly gimme-gimmes by ordering something by mail.
Well, I don't quite get what exactly "made in thr usa" means these days since 85% of the electronics and 40% of the raw materials involved in making of an american car come from China... But yeah, I see the point.
You haven't been to China in a while, have you? Today's China is not the China Nixon visited.
True, capitalism and "want-ism" are certainly growing, but there's still a few generations to go. Kinda like the old timers in Russia that still miss Stalin.
I think we can reach a diplomatic solution.
As the US has a long tradition of cloning city names from European cities... in some cases slapping a New in front...
I think the Chinese can keep up their practice if they put a "Made in New USA" on their clones.
As the US has a long tradition of cloning city names from European cities... in some cases slapping a New in front...
I think the Chinese can keep up their practice if they put a "Made in New USA" on their clones.
It would be great if some of these bigger companies would really flip the switch on suing US vendors for carrying clones with trade make infringements.
The idea of "well If I don't carry it someone else will" is BS.
Yeah clones, can't stop um. China has always been shady, unscrupulous and doesn't give two craps about our laws or even if their products work properly.
But when a US vendor carries a China clone with logo infringements and made in the USA stamped on it... They are after nothing more than money. A quick buck at someone else's expense.
The idea of "well If I don't carry it someone else will" is BS.
Yeah clones, can't stop um. China has always been shady, unscrupulous and doesn't give two craps about our laws or even if their products work properly.
But when a US vendor carries a China clone with logo infringements and made in the USA stamped on it... They are after nothing more than money. A quick buck at someone else's expense.
Some of you may want to watch this, really makes you think.
Death By China Documentary
Vape On
Burnie
Death By China Documentary
Burnie
I buy American when I can - too many things aren't made here anymore. I don't have a problem with stuff that is made elsewhere for the most part. What I do have an issue with is when one person or company - from anywhere on the planet - creates something, invests their time, sweat, and cold hard cash into developing it, and some other person or company steals the idea, copies it, and sells it.
That is why the clones are cheaper.
To me, it's no different than plagiarism. It's a form of theft. I'm not blaming people who buy the stuff... I just don't think they're aware of what kind of company they're dealing with.
That is why the clones are cheaper.
To me, it's no different than plagiarism. It's a form of theft. I'm not blaming people who buy the stuff... I just don't think they're aware of what kind of company they're dealing with.
If you wish to protect your products, you need to register your trademark or patent your design (if possible). There's no law that provides automatic protection for everything you produce. That's the way it works and no amount of debate on our part will change that. The only thing that we can do is not buy produces that we don't feel good about.
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Trademarks can be established just by first use in a marketplace. Registering it is the smart thing to do, a lot easier to prove later; but what are you trying to say? If you don't register the TM then it's your own fault??
Not how that works.
If that's true, I did not know that. I wouldn't use the word fault.
I have stayed out of the "Clone wars", but the above statement is simply not true. My first Gibson Les Paul was a 1978 Gibson Les paul Standard, Tobacco Sunburst...since then I've owned many les Pauls, with my last three being from the Gibson Custom shop, a Historic 1957 Gold top, a 1959 Iced tea, and a 1960 Eric Clapton Les Paul. The quality of the tonewoods, thin nitro finishes, long tenon neck, and just "feel" can not compare to the mass produced Epis or other asian "Les Pauls" with their crappy tone woods, and Poly finishes.
I purchased a Epi Les paul for my 16 yr old nephew...ok guitar...after decent set up, replacing the hardware and a good set of Bare knuckles pick ups not bad ...but not even close to my Gibsons.
and yes...with a Name like Blues Bishop I'm a 50 year old blues and classic rock player, and also play only thru vintage Marshalls and Fender Amps ...I'm all about tone...and for my nephew playing metal thru a Modeling amp...all the subtleties of a fine Les paul and vintage Amp will be lost..a cheap guitar will be fine for him....but for my ears, give me Gibson Custom Shop any day.
Sorry to the OP, didn't mean to derail your thread...just couldn't let that comment go! lol
I'll chime in for the OP of this thread.
1.) I don't care what others buy(clone or original).
2.) I think that counterfeiting where a product is made is wrong and those who do it should be prosecuted
to the full extent of the law and the business should be shutdown, period.
3.) America has no claim to quality but I live in this country and, when possible, buy American to support my
economy.
4.) Economics rules my life and so I chase quality over cheaply priced products.
It just so happens that 2 of the most reliable and well built products that I use are made in America(REO and Provari). Although European countries, in my humble opinion, are a gold standard but with a hefty price that is usually too steep for my budget.
Honors go to Totally Wicked's Odyssey...it's a lovely and well built instrument and Russia/Germany collaboration on the Kayfun lite (original).
My opinions only and I just can't afford to try them all...I'm only one consumer.
I just want to add that simply knowing that the cloning of where a product is made is happening devalues everything's resale value....authenticity is no longer guaranteed and standards our out the window!
1.) I don't care what others buy(clone or original).
2.) I think that counterfeiting where a product is made is wrong and those who do it should be prosecuted
to the full extent of the law and the business should be shutdown, period.
3.) America has no claim to quality but I live in this country and, when possible, buy American to support my
economy.
4.) Economics rules my life and so I chase quality over cheaply priced products.
It just so happens that 2 of the most reliable and well built products that I use are made in America(REO and Provari). Although European countries, in my humble opinion, are a gold standard but with a hefty price that is usually too steep for my budget.
Honors go to Totally Wicked's Odyssey...it's a lovely and well built instrument and Russia/Germany collaboration on the Kayfun lite (original).
My opinions only and I just can't afford to try them all...I'm only one consumer.
I just want to add that simply knowing that the cloning of where a product is made is happening devalues everything's resale value....authenticity is no longer guaranteed and standards our out the window!
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Ethics? That's the last thing that the makers of these counterfeit products has. My distributor showed me some type of device, I believe it was one of those things one places a few drops of their favorite e-juice in & vape away.
Anyway, it was stamped "Made in USA", however he told me it's a Chinese clone. I asked how do they get away with this. Was told that basically there's no regulation, no industry standard, that the Chinese can clone all sorts of devices & walk away clean. These cloned devices (some bearing the Made in USA stamp or etch) aren't made in secret basements & distributed in back alleys, they're mass produced in China & openly sold on the FastTech & other online sites, such as eBay, to dealers & end customers.
Assuming that's even close to the truth, then the original OEM of the devices makes their cash from the first few rounds of releases. By the time clones hits the market, the real OEM's has released a newer model with different or more modern/improved features & the cycle begins again.
And as one of the other members point out, there's many symbolic items that are also imported, such as the American flags we display in the summer. This is a war that we cannot win, due to the economics of things. Our government handed over our jobs abroad, in the interest of "free trade agreements", of which the deck was stacked against the American worker.
It's no wonder, given there's few quality jobs anymore to those w/out the benefit of a good education, that cheap devices of all types, again some bearing Made in USA tags, are sold in huge quantities.
Unless & until the manufacturing base can be brought back home, things won't improve. Because for every genuine mod on the market, there's likely 100 or more clones. Why pay $200+ for a device when the $25 clone works nearly as good, in some cases better.
However I do agree with the ethics of this, the "Made in USA" tags & etching on devices shouldn't be there unless they were built on our soil. If a dealer or supplier sells someone a clone & says it's so up front, I have no issue with this. But to claim it was made here & wasn't, that's clearly wrong on more than one principle.
Cat
Anyway, it was stamped "Made in USA", however he told me it's a Chinese clone. I asked how do they get away with this. Was told that basically there's no regulation, no industry standard, that the Chinese can clone all sorts of devices & walk away clean. These cloned devices (some bearing the Made in USA stamp or etch) aren't made in secret basements & distributed in back alleys, they're mass produced in China & openly sold on the FastTech & other online sites, such as eBay, to dealers & end customers.
Assuming that's even close to the truth, then the original OEM of the devices makes their cash from the first few rounds of releases. By the time clones hits the market, the real OEM's has released a newer model with different or more modern/improved features & the cycle begins again.
And as one of the other members point out, there's many symbolic items that are also imported, such as the American flags we display in the summer. This is a war that we cannot win, due to the economics of things. Our government handed over our jobs abroad, in the interest of "free trade agreements", of which the deck was stacked against the American worker.
It's no wonder, given there's few quality jobs anymore to those w/out the benefit of a good education, that cheap devices of all types, again some bearing Made in USA tags, are sold in huge quantities.
Unless & until the manufacturing base can be brought back home, things won't improve. Because for every genuine mod on the market, there's likely 100 or more clones. Why pay $200+ for a device when the $25 clone works nearly as good, in some cases better.
However I do agree with the ethics of this, the "Made in USA" tags & etching on devices shouldn't be there unless they were built on our soil. If a dealer or supplier sells someone a clone & says it's so up front, I have no issue with this. But to claim it was made here & wasn't, that's clearly wrong on more than one principle.
Cat
On the topic of ethics and the number of participants in a good dance of Tango.
Very true, but some of the late Norlin-era and early Henry-era instruments were definitely not up to that level of quality.
Ethis in the world are teriible, A clone maker can make 10000 made in the USA lies but the next Einstein's life can be ruined for holding a joint on the way to particle physics class.
Not to mention the made in the usa dealers slavewagery.
Not to mention the made in the usa dealers slavewagery.
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