The ethics of "Made in USA" on clones

[edyle]

I bet this thread makes at least 200 replies. Any takers? Some days it seems like there's more talk about ethics than vaping.

My , since I'm already posting is, I don't really like it, but I think it's "slightly" different when someone is replicating something that says "USA" on it, compared to stamping "Made in the USA" on a product in an attempt to mislead people. I've bought one clone, so far, but I would think twice about buying one that says "Made in the USA."

I'd like to point out that kayfun clones, sometimes say, "Made in Germany" on them and no one has complained yet on these. Do we have a double standard here in the US?

Oh! Thanks for mentioning that; I had no idea;
I was a bit interested in the 'hana modz' style clone on fasttech but no way will I consider it - because it comes with the Hana Modz logo. I even opened a presale ticket with ft because of that.
And there are kayfun style cones on fasttech that have the SvoeMesto logo on them - again, that's a dealbreaker for me.

I wish Tobeco, Hcigar and EHPro would stamp their own logos on their products.

On the other hand, I guess alot of what we call manufacturing today to in the future going forward, at the end product stage, is almost just packaging/assembly.

 

[edyle]

Maybe we should ask: Why do so many Chinese manufacturers feel it is necessary (or even desirable) to misrepresent their products?

Because they don't understand English?
I mean maybe to most of em it's just lines and squiggles,,,,,,,,,right?

It's a former Communish country, ,, how many of them even know what a Trademark is?

 

[edyle]

The makers of the clones should not be blamed for etching 'made in USA' (or whichever country) on the clones, consumers (from all over the globe) request a CLONE of the original, warts 'n' all.
If the original MOD design (etchings, logos etc) contains 'made in the USA' then the clone, if a 1:1 copy should therefore contain those same markings.

You only have to look at the forums/discussions on fasttech to see that people cry bloody murder if the clone offered is anything less than 100% accurate to the original.

If the original has it then so should the clone.

The cloners would receive complaints and remove it from the clone design if it caused outrage to the buying public and stopped people from getting the MOD...

Even it that were correct (which is not the case)

by that logic

the hitman should not be blamed for the murder because the consumer requested the hit.

 

[edyle]

Unless they're trying to pass them off as authentics, they aren't "misrepresenting" anything. They're perfectly clear about the products they make being clones.

If individuals r vendors choose to sell these off as authentics, then there is misrepresentation, but it's not on the part of the people who make them.

If you stamp "Made in USA" on your product when it is made in China, then obviously that is misrepresentation.

 

[edyle]

This is what people who yap on about the "unethical" nature of clones don't get. The manufacturers aren't creating demand, they're filling it. If original modders could supply the demand for MODs, then clones wouldn't exist (or certainly not in their large numbers). Metting demand would also necessarily mean lower prices. It's very simple economics.

People demand a product. Company A (the company who originally built it) makes them, but they can only produce 1 for every 50 people who wants one. It's only natural that some other company will fill the void.

I agree with that point; to stop the manufacturers from misrepresenting their products, the consumers have to stop supporting them.

 

[edyle]

I'm sorry, but that's bull excrement. A product name marked on a product is a representation that the named entity made the product (and got some of the money). "Made in [whatever country]: marked on the product is a representation on where it was in fact made. When a clone manufacturer puts someone else's name on the product and marks it (or the packaging that it's in) with a country of origin that's false, that IS misrepresentation by the manufacturer. Now your local B&M might not be misrepresenting it if they tell you, "That's a Chinese-made clone", but to say that the manufacturer isn't misrepresenting it is akin to saying "That depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."

Seems as clear as day to me.

 

[edyle]

Chinese manufacturers are perfectly clear about what they're making. They aren't misrepresenting anything so long as they sell their wares as clones or replicas or whatever they call them. So long as they are open about them NOT being authentic, they're in the clear.

However one chooses to think on it, I've had my say. I'm not going to get in to a long, protracted argument again with the same people over and over.

Stamping "Made in USA" on your product when you are making it it China is a clear misrepresentation.

That's the question: is that item Made in USA or not.
That serial number 3891, if you made a claim on that serial number, is the company going to tell you that you have a fake product or not. That's the question.

 

[edyle]

So it seems once again, there will be no consensus.

Some feel that it is unethical to put false labels on fakes.

Some feel that the demand for fakes makes it acceptable to copy everything.

"Oh, East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet."
-- Kipling

Couterfieting is a money making activity; it's in the interest of counterfieters to justify it my trying to muddle it together with cloning.

 

[edyle]

TidBit from Fasttech:

Please note: The Chinese-made atomizer will may be stamped with the words "Designed in Russia, Made in Germany" on the bottom of it.

Suckered myself into posting this thread in the first place. Think I'm done with it. Seven (7) Days off and I have no intention of spending it arguing/hating with online characters that know they are as right as me - lol.

Have a GREAT end of week/weekend everyone and..................

VAPE ON!!!!!!

That's a step in the right direction by Fasttech, who no doubt only posted that in response to complaints from us the consumers.
It is something we do have to do; we do need to point out to fasttech when they advertise counterfiet products; and hold off buying other items as a result.

 

[edyle]

I'm looking for that brass king mod clone on Advanced Vape Gear - On9Stop.com and so far I cannot locate the one with the Made in USA on it.

I do see others without the Made in USA on it:

It's just a mech mod anyway, so it's even possible that the one shown in the OP is actually Made in USA for all I know.
The url for the pic does state "clone".

 

[SourKing]

I have a king clone that had made in USA on the bottom and I know that is not true so brushed off the entire logo on the bottom. And I feel like the title of this thread should be are you a patriot

 

[Ed_C]

I'm looking for that brass king mod clone on Advanced Vape Gear - On9Stop.com and so far I cannot locate the one with the Made in USA on it.

I do see others without the Made in USA on it:

It's just a mech mod anyway, so it's even possible that the one shown in the OP is actually Made in USA for all I know.
The url for the pic does state "clone".

Now if they would just get rid of that .... ugly logo!

 

[classwife]

Be mindful of the Forum rules in here please.



Thank you !

 

[bsoplinger]

I just checked on a recently purchased clone. Came in an incredibly cheap box that clearly identified it as being made in China. Now if one posits that they're offering reproductions of the original mod, even to the text made in USA, but the box says made in China, then it's no harm no foul.

Only problem here is that things that are genuine reproductions have some little writing on the box or packaging that says licensed by xxx who was the original designer because they're getting paid for their designs to be used and they agreed to having a copy made.

Since all these Chinese mod clones aren't licensed, it seems to me that one particular bit of text being copied or not shouldn't be an issue at all. The idea that made in USA gets copied makes it somehow different has no basis in logic.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Xparent Purple Tapatalk 2

 

[Jeffk123]

I think they could leave off the country of origin personally, I love my clones you wouldn't catch me dropping over $100 for a metal tube I could make in my garage for $50 if I don't charge myself labor. I remember seeing hcigars taifun clone they copied that thing down to the box I thought wow that was a step too far imo. Unethical probably but people demand it and the market supplies it.

 

[EBates]

Yes, because even poor people should have fancy mech counterfeits....

Some of us care about quality and American jobs...

America (US Govt, and Businesses) doesn't care about American quality or jobs. That's why "cheap" foreign labor is used for most of the "Made In America" products. And jobs like your Dad had are no longer available. Every thing is outsourced to what ever third world operation that can do it cheaper. So, in large part "Made in the USA' is the same whether stamped on a Chinese, Indian, Indonesian, etc product. There are no American manufactured goods. Thank You US Government for shipping Our Jobs Overseas.

 

[Rossum]

America (US Govt, and Businesses) doesn't care about American quality or jobs.

Well, some of us still do. I own a business and I go out of my way to have as much of my stuff made here as possible.

There are no American manufactured goods.

I beg to differ with you. There definitely are still some. But when people find it acceptable for foreign manufacturers to stamp 'Made in USA' on their stuff, it makes it somewhat harder to figure out which ones really are.

 

[stevegmu]

America (US Govt, and Businesses) doesn't care about American quality or jobs. That's why "cheap" foreign labor is used for most of the "Made In America" products. And jobs like your Dad had are no longer available. Every thing is outsourced to what ever third world operation that can do it cheaper. So, in large part "Made in the USA' is the same whether stamped on a Chinese, Indian, Indonesian, etc product. There are no American manufactured goods. Thank You US Government for shipping Our Jobs Overseas.

Really? I work in manufacturing. In my field- re-enforced thermoplastics hydraulic hose for oil and gas , the military, automotive, trucking, beverage, medical...industries, made in America means everything. We charge a premium and customers are more than willing to pay for our quality, because it is unsurpassed worldwide. We have more business than we can handle and have been working 13 days on and 1 day off for the past 2 years...
I guess you know something I don't...

 

[edyle]

I think they could leave off the country of origin personally, I love my clones you wouldn't catch me dropping over $100 for a metal tube I could make in my garage for $50 if I don't charge myself labor. I remember seeing hcigars taifun clone they copied that thing down to the box I thought wow that was a step too far imo. Unethical probably but people demand it and the market supplies it.

I don't get how you jump from you "think they could leave off the country of origin personally " and "copied the thing down to the box.. a step too far", to "people demand it".

Who's the people demanding it?

The major demand for counterfiet would be from vendors hoping to sell fakes at a high profit.
The end user certainly doesn't care if the clone comes in a cheap box, but somebody looking to profit by selling fakes cares a lot.

It's not the end $user$ that wants counterfiets; the end user what's cheap clones.

 

[Coelli]

There are no American manufactured goods.

Well, except for the originals of the two mods I used as examples in the OP, or my Penny mod and its topper, or the Provari, or IBTanked tanks... That's just off the top of my head in the vaping world. There are plenty of American manufactured goods, unless you do most of your shopping at a dollar store or Wal-mart., and even there you'll find a few things that actually are made here. I got a bunch of glasses at Target on clearance recently to use for glass etching - .33 each, and labeled Made in the USA. I was really happy to see that (after I bought them).

So that aside, again, it's not about quality or snobbery or anything else; it's about misrepresentation.