The ethics of "Made in USA" on clones

[crxess]

Funny thing...........and All I will say on the Clones subject.

The very Few times I have heard complaints of Possibly getting Taken, i.e. original turned out to be a clone/replica/whatever -
It was always some Home Grown AMERICAN Running a SCAM to pawn off something he/she Bought as a clone.

Pssst want to buy a cheap Bridge

 

[Coelli]

Okay, but we're still veering off the topic. The originals are stamped USA because they ARE made here. The clones are copying that country of origin statement. So now you have a Chinese item that states it's made in the USA. Why is that okay?

 

[B1sh0p]

I've read quite a few posts where the poster went to a B&M and saw counterfeits for sale as if they were genuine...

Links? Prove it. I've been lurking on this site since 12/12 and haven't seen it.

 

[B1sh0p]

Okay, but we're still veering off the topic. The originals are stamped USA because they ARE made here. The clones are copying that country of origin statement. So now you have a Chinese item that states it's made in the USA. Why is that okay?

Because they're sold as clones or replicants. There's no deception.

 

[edyle]

I've read quite a few posts where the poster went to a B&M and saw counterfeits for sale as if they were genuine...

Recently there were examples of aerotanks, and nautiluses that came with duplicate scratchoff security codes.
When you buy an "Kanger" aerotank in what looks like a genuine kanger box, you ought to get a genuine kanger.
When you buy a product stamped "Made in USA", it should be made in USA.
When you buy a gold coin stamped 1 ounce 99% gold, you should get 1 ounce 99% gold.

 

[B1sh0p]

Recently there were examples of aerotanks, and nautiluses that came with duplicate scratchoff security codes.
When you buy an "Kanger" aerotank in what looks like a genuine kanger box, you ought to get a genuine kanger.
When you buy a product stamped "Made in USA", it should be made in USA.
When you buy a gold coin stamped 1 ounce 99% gold, you should get 1 ounce 99% gold.

We're talking about mods though. It's a completely different market. There is a following for high quality clones. There is deception in the clearomizer market, but that's the Chinese cloning their own products.

 

[icemanistheking]

Okay, but we're still veering off the topic. The originals are stamped USA because they ARE made here. The clones are copying that country of origin statement. So now you have a Chinese item that states it's made in the USA. Why is that okay?

Why does it really matter where it's made? Part of what I love about vaping and being into mods is that I get to use products from all over the world with someone's personal touch put into them. The fact that I can converse with the maker from Greece or Poland on a forum, then use and love the product that they designed, is just awesome to me. And not to mention all the international vapers we get to share a hobby with.

The whole "Made in USA" debate is a bit inappropriate in a vaping context, simply because Americans are not being passed up for modding jobs in favor of international modders willing to work for less pay. Granted, I still see how it would be annoying given the fact that it's a false claim, but in no way do I think it's made worse by the fact that the US is the country the claim is being made about.

 

[icemanistheking]

Links? Prove it. I've been lurking on this site since 12/12 and haven't seen it.

Vxla oni mod

The VXLA Oni "authentic" mod is an EHPro Nzonic being sold as a legit high end mod. Also, up until very recently, the stores Activape and Egovape (VXLA, Activape, and Egovape are all the same company) were selling clones labeled as authentic mods. I'll find the links on those too if you want.

Common sense dicates that with the thousands of B&Ms in the US alone combined with the number of unscrupulous people in the world, at some point some seller is going to try and take advantage of people not in the know.

 

[Coelli]

I have bought vaping gear from By Leo and GR Modders, both in Greece, and I'm interested in the Youde mech and the new 26650 by Hcigar. The issue isn't whether something is better or worse for having been made in China or somewhere else. It's that it has a permanent engraving claiming to be made in the USA when it's not. It's misleading, hence the ethics question.

 

[B1sh0p]

Vxla oni mod

The VXLA Oni "authentic" mod is an EHPro Nzonic being sold as a legit high end mod. Also, up until very recently, the stores Activape and Egovape (VXLA, Activape, and Egovape are all the same company) were selling clones labeled as authentic mods. I'll find the links on those too if you want.

Common sense dicates that with the thousands of B&Ms in the US alone combined with the number of unscrupulous people in the world, at some point some seller is going to try and take advantage of people not in the know.

I actually do remember the Oni case. That was a case of Americans rebranding a clone and trying to sell it as their own. Americans trying to pass off rebranded Chinese clones off as an original design iirc.

There are going to be some exceptions, but generally clones are made and sold as clones. Clones themselves have become collector's items. It's far different than the typical counterfeit market, which was my point.

 

[edyle]

Vxla oni mod

The VXLA Oni "authentic" mod is an EHPro Nzonic being sold as a legit high end mod. Also, up until very recently, the stores Activape and Egovape (VXLA, Activape, and Egovape are all the same company) were selling clones labeled as authentic mods. I'll find the links on those too if you want.

Common sense dicates that with the thousands of B&Ms in the US alone combined with the number of unscrupulous people in the world, at some point some seller is going to try and take advantage of people not in the know.

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but that just sounds like a case of rebranding.

 

[B1sh0p]

The best part of the Oni case was that the Chinese made a clone of the Oni!

 

[crxess]

I have an Idea.

When you see something you really don't like - per the topic, why not just walk away? Why come here looking to see how many people agree and how many do not agree.
Every one of these threads goes the same way. It starts about the Mods and ends in alienating fellow Vapers.

You want someone to blame - same thing I said a year ago - BLAME the U.S. VENDERS that Buy And Pawn these items off on AMERICAN customers.

 

[Bimini Twist]

Vendors get some of the blame, but I blame the cloners first and foremost for lying about the products they're making. If you don't make products with false claims etched in steel, no vendors of ANY nationality will "Buy And Pawn" them off on ANY customers.

It seems to me that if nobody cares about truth in advertising/labeling, maybe we should repeal all such laws and start buying snake oil remedies that cure all our ailments.

Why all the America bashing in this thread? Do you think these fakes are sold only in the U.S.? I think it's just as bad to falsely claim that products were made in Germany, Greece, Israel, Mars, and . . . China.

And even stranger, it seems to be Americans doing all or most of the American bashing.

 

[icemanistheking]

Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but that just sounds like a case of rebranding.

Ultimately, it's a mod worth about $30 being sold for about $200. The mod being rebranded was originally (and is actually) an Nzonic clone. So clone being sold as legit.

And Activape and Egovape were selling normal clones as authentics.

 

[icemanistheking]

I have bought vaping gear from By Leo and GR Modders, both in Greece, and I'm interested in the Youde mech and the new 26650 by Hcigar. The issue isn't whether something is better or worse for having been made in China or somewhere else. It's that it has a permanent engraving claiming to be made in the USA when it's not. It's misleading, hence the ethics question.

Okay, so it's not specifically that it says "USA" that bothers you? Because that's how the OP comes off, honestly, and I think others took it that way as well.

Then my point becomes one already mentioned earlier, when every aspect of a design is stolen, is it not a moot point that the engravings are forged as well, including the "Made in"?

 

[icemanistheking]

Vendors get some of the blame, but I blame the cloners first and foremost for lying about the products they're making. If you don't make products with false claims etched in steel, no vendors of ANY nationality will "Buy And Pawn" them off on ANY customers.

It seems to me that if nobody cares about truth in advertising/labeling, maybe we should repeal all such laws and start buying snake oil remedies that cure all our ailments.

Why all the America bashing in this thread? Do you think these fakes are sold only in the U.S.? I think it's just as bad to falsely claim that products were made in Germany, Greece, Israel, Mars, and . . . China.

And even stranger, it seems to be Americans doing all or most of the American bashing.

I see very little to no "America bashing" in this thread...the fact that you take it like that is somewhat telling.

 

[icemanistheking]

I have an Idea.

When you see something you really don't like - per the topic, why now just walk away? Why come here looking to see how many people agree and how many do not agree.
Every one of these threads gos the same way. It starts about the Mods and ends in alienating fellow Vapers.

You want someone to blame - same thing I said a year ago - BLAME the U.S. VENDERS that Buy And Pawn these items off on AMERICAN customers.

Most of the interesting topics are a result of things that people don't like.

 

[crxess]

Vendors get some of the blame, but I blame the cloners first and foremost for lying about the products they're making. If you don't make products with false claims etched in steel, no vendors of ANY nationality will "Buy And Pawn" them off on ANY customers.

It seems to me that if nobody cares about truth in advertising/labeling, maybe we should repeal all such laws and start buying snake oil remedies that cure all our ailments.

Why all the America bashing in this thread? Do you think these fakes are sold only in the U.S.? I think it's just as bad to falsely claim that products were made in Germany, Greece, Israel, Mars, and . . . China.

And even stranger, it seems to be Americans doing all or most of the American bashing.

Truly Nieve thinking. If you think the Venders......As well as co-op buying groups are Not the cause you are sadly mistaken. Maybe it has come to the point of automatically duplicating any new release(maybe) but this all started by Customer Request.

It has been and continues to be supply and demand.
There would be no CLONE supply if there Was no Demand for More/Cheaper

Oh, and I agree - Not just American. Mods Marked Made in USA or Made in Germany or anything else are done for Free markets world wide. Americans tend to keep our noses higher than most others. Sorry.

Oh, and Clone Manufacturers make no false claims. They simply make cheap copies to original designs.
Counterfeiters Claim originals and ask high prices.

Here I said I wouldn't get involved again.
I am not saying - Right or Wrong
I am Saying people get some strange ideas of what is what.

We all know, or at least should know - Originals:
Original Mods are Normally High Quality, Hand built, Limited availability Mods. Each normally goes through several QC inspections in machining and final fit/assembly. Defects are (Normally) Rejected and destroyed.
Originals are normally only offered by a Select Few AUTHORIZED Venders in amy given country and Verified by the original Designer as such.

 

[Bimini Twist]

I have an Idea.

When you see something you really don't like - per the topic, why not just walk away? Why come here looking to see how many people agree and how many do not agree.
Every one of these threads goes the same way. It starts about the Mods and ends in alienating fellow Vapers.

You want someone to blame - same thing I said a year ago - BLAME the U.S. VENDERS that Buy And Pawn these items off on AMERICAN customers.

I see very little to no "America bashing" in this thread...the fact that you take it like that is somewhat telling.

No?

OK, bashing Americans rather than America. There IS a difference these days.

I did say Americans in my little footnote.