The Final Count Down -- Are You Ready?
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Based on some careless archeological review of the closet, I started stockpiling in @2012 (better known back then as too lazy to pif or sell, thankfully). @Uncle , the nursing home nic cartel is a jab at my poor mathing skills, not using the nic calculator till recently, and forgetting I have nic in more than one freezer 
. I’ll be dragging two freezers to the nursing home someday if at all possible!
. I’ll be dragging two freezers to the nursing home someday if at all possible!
I see you are a MTL vaper, no way I could go 10%, 2% is really good imo
Bulk Apothecary.
Yeah, once in row ... tomorrow it'll be Hulking Box to Carry, or Polka Socks & Fairies, or Costco
It probably has been said in one of the dozens of pages, but does the title of this thread make you start singing the Europe song "its the final countdown"?Europe as in the band, not the continent (for you younger, older, or middle of the road people like me that just forget things). Others may know it as the Progressive Insurance song
That was a good time. I got a lot of those EhPro clones. Mostly for $10, even got a couple for $5. With a little bag of insulators and pins, and a big bag of plastic tank sections. I have 19 of them and they are what I mostly vape. Along with some Lemo Drops that I got for $5 and some Royal Hunters for 75c.
I wish they would start selling off STM's cheap. Quite like those. I have a couple but never saw them going cheap.
When I went to Tractor Supply to buy a gallon of PG, I found they also carried gallons of VG. This is in New Braunfels, TX.
I say Rossum starts an 8 MONTHS ARE YOU READY thread we can all describe our nicotine babies progression. You know, the VG is starting to vibrate a little bit, the coils are multiplying, the O rings are beginning to form.
Or whatever. At one point in my life I TOTES knew how babies developed but I've kind of forgotten.
I know cells split. The heartbeat develops. Eventually they hiccup INSIDE you the little monsters gulping down amniotic fluid. I have no idea WHEN.
I HAVE sort of been craving a little one lately. This is pure proof I am insane. I didn't even tell the husband much about it I don't think, he would KILL me.
Also *I* make the money and it's not like *I* would want to have the husband caring for it. I mean he does well-- sometimes. But then the dog runs away and he leaves it with me for punishment.
I think HE is a bit too stressed, and I am just feeling the pangs of my "OH GOD HOW MANY GOOD eggs do I have LEFT?"
The answer has always been, "None, Anna you had ONE good egg, and you got lucky with the kid."
LOL I am like certifiably insane and credentialing weekends are no time to make decision.
EXCEPT about the 8 month thread, that is a GOOD idea.
Anna
Or whatever. At one point in my life I TOTES knew how babies developed but I've kind of forgotten.
I know cells split. The heartbeat develops. Eventually they hiccup INSIDE you the little monsters gulping down amniotic fluid. I have no idea WHEN.
I HAVE sort of been craving a little one lately. This is pure proof I am insane. I didn't even tell the husband much about it I don't think, he would KILL me.
Also *I* make the money and it's not like *I* would want to have the husband caring for it. I mean he does well-- sometimes. But then the dog runs away and he leaves it with me for punishment.
I think HE is a bit too stressed, and I am just feeling the pangs of my "OH GOD HOW MANY GOOD eggs do I have LEFT?"
The answer has always been, "None, Anna you had ONE good egg, and you got lucky with the kid."
LOL I am like certifiably insane and credentialing weekends are no time to make decision.
EXCEPT about the 8 month thread, that is a GOOD idea.
Anna
The Pumper is much more comfortable than holding the Luna and I happen to like the looks of the Pumper than the Luna. I’m planning on selling 2 of my Luna’s at some point. Never used them. I’m just not into squonking.
Eh.... It all works out anyway, my wife needs
She only has 7 mods!!! I’m having heart palpitations just thinking about having only 7 mods!!!!
When I started vaping, I was buying e-juice, online, from the same company that made the eGo/CE4 combo that I was using at the time. I would buy 2 30mls of the two flavors that I liked, and they would throw in 3 or 4 10 ml bottles of similar flavors. Free samples! If I reviewed or commented on the 'sample flavors', they would continue adding 'samples' based on whether I liked or disliked the previous ones. The company is TastyPuff DOT com if anyone is interested. I don't know if they still do this or even if they're still in business as I haven't bought anything from them in ~3 years.
Quoting Kurt Kistler the University Chemistry Professor:
"I think your freezer should be just fine at -18C. This is about 0 F, and cooler than my freezer (10F). I have only limited data from freezing a VG-nic juice with 20% water, from years ago, but it did not separate or have solid ice in it...it just got thicker. It was only one attempt at this, but it makes sense to me from a chemistry view: through cross H-bonds, the water solvates completely with the VG, and cannot recombine back into pure water with cold.
As for those that are obsessed with purging headspace air from the stored bottle with a gas like Ar, let's do a little calculation. Let's assume 4 mL of headspace in a bottle of nic. If O2 is 25% of the air (rough estimate) that is 1 mL of O2. We will ignore vapor pressure of VG or water. If we assume 1 atm pressure and 25 C (298K), we can use standard PV=nRT high school chemistry math, where n is moles, and R is 0.0821L-atm/mol-K. So 0.001L O2 is
0.001L x 1 atm/(0.0821L-atom/mol-K * 298K) = 4.08x10^-5 moles of O2.
If one mole of O2 reacts with one mole of nicotine (it is in fact a 1:1 molar ratio in the reaction), then 4.08x10^-5 moles of nicotine will react if all that O2 reacts. Molar mass of nicotine is 166.22 g/mole, so
4.08x10^-5 moles nic x 166.22g/mole x 1000 mg/g = 6.8 mg of nic oxidizing if ALL the O2 in 4 mL headspace reacts.
I think I may have overstated the importance of O2 from added water some years ago here. O2 solubility in water at room temp and 1 atm is about 8 mg/L (0.008g/L). Suppose we add 20% water to 100 mg VG-nic, and we are storing 50 mL of the mixed base in a glass bottle. mg of nic that will oxidize if all the O2 reacts from the added water (10 mL) will be
0.008 g O2/L * 0.010L * 1mole/32g * 1mole nic/1 mole O2 * 166.22 g/mol * 1000 mg/g = 0.4 mg nic oxidized if all the O2 in the water reacts with nic. Less than 1 mg.
O2 solubility in VG is about 2 mg/L. In our 50 mL bottle of VG-nic with 20% water, we have 40 mL of VG (about, there is nic too, but to make it simple). This will lead to oxidation of nic of:
0.002 g O2/L * 0.040L * 1mole/32g * 1mole nic/1 mole O2 * 166.22 g/mol * 1000 mg/g = 0.4 mg nic oxidized if all the O2 in the VG reacts. Same amount as from the 10 mL added water. O2 solubility in PG is about the same as in VG.
Thus, if no O2 gets into the VG-nic from outside, the intrinsic O2 present in the headspace, 20% water and VG will oxidize less than 8 mg of nic total in a 50 mL bottle with 4 mL headspace. Might be enough to give a very slight yellow, but most probably not enough to detect in a DIY e-liquid made from it. And even at room temp, this will take some time.
You cannot remove this intrinsic O2. But it is certainly not enough to be worried about even if it all reacts. Most plastics we use are fairly porous to O2 transport through it from the atmosphere, but while glass is virtually impervious to O2, the plastic caps are not, although they are better than typical dropper bottle plastic (LDPE). This is why even at room temperature, VG-nic in sealed glass bottles lasts a long time without significant coloration. But probably not years. So we cool the nic to slow any reaction from O2 invading through the cap to almost zero. Shrink wrap or electrical tape around the cap might help some, but maybe not much. I don't know, but I don't do this myself.
I store undiluted VG-nic mostly at 100 mg/mL for space reasons, and only in glass. For my VG-nics stored cold after 6.5 years there has been no change. I don't know why one batch of PG-nic I had years ago oxidized to deep yellow-orange after about a year, but to be honest it was not as pure as the nic we generally use today, and might have been oxidized somewhat upon getting it (2009 Totally Wicked Red Label). It was in a deep amber glass 30 mL dropper bottle (rubber surrounding) with child-proof cap that might not have been good at keeping O2 out. Rubber is not good at blocking O2 transport. Other purer PG-nic I have had in better sealed glass did fine for the couple of years I stored it. I haven't had PG-nic in my possession as long as my VG-nic, since I don't vape PG-nic. But others here that have stored pure PG-nic have had good results for multiple years in glass in the freezer.
Conclusion: no matter the DIY-nic you get, get it into well-sealed glass, give a bit of headspace for possible expansion (VG/PG expands with heat), put it in the freezer, and worry about it no more."
"I think your freezer should be just fine at -18C. This is about 0 F, and cooler than my freezer (10F). I have only limited data from freezing a VG-nic juice with 20% water, from years ago, but it did not separate or have solid ice in it...it just got thicker. It was only one attempt at this, but it makes sense to me from a chemistry view: through cross H-bonds, the water solvates completely with the VG, and cannot recombine back into pure water with cold.
As for those that are obsessed with purging headspace air from the stored bottle with a gas like Ar, let's do a little calculation. Let's assume 4 mL of headspace in a bottle of nic. If O2 is 25% of the air (rough estimate) that is 1 mL of O2. We will ignore vapor pressure of VG or water. If we assume 1 atm pressure and 25 C (298K), we can use standard PV=nRT high school chemistry math, where n is moles, and R is 0.0821L-atm/mol-K. So 0.001L O2 is
0.001L x 1 atm/(0.0821L-atom/mol-K * 298K) = 4.08x10^-5 moles of O2.
If one mole of O2 reacts with one mole of nicotine (it is in fact a 1:1 molar ratio in the reaction), then 4.08x10^-5 moles of nicotine will react if all that O2 reacts. Molar mass of nicotine is 166.22 g/mole, so
4.08x10^-5 moles nic x 166.22g/mole x 1000 mg/g = 6.8 mg of nic oxidizing if ALL the O2 in 4 mL headspace reacts.
I think I may have overstated the importance of O2 from added water some years ago here. O2 solubility in water at room temp and 1 atm is about 8 mg/L (0.008g/L). Suppose we add 20% water to 100 mg VG-nic, and we are storing 50 mL of the mixed base in a glass bottle. mg of nic that will oxidize if all the O2 reacts from the added water (10 mL) will be
0.008 g O2/L * 0.010L * 1mole/32g * 1mole nic/1 mole O2 * 166.22 g/mol * 1000 mg/g = 0.4 mg nic oxidized if all the O2 in the water reacts with nic. Less than 1 mg.
O2 solubility in VG is about 2 mg/L. In our 50 mL bottle of VG-nic with 20% water, we have 40 mL of VG (about, there is nic too, but to make it simple). This will lead to oxidation of nic of:
0.002 g O2/L * 0.040L * 1mole/32g * 1mole nic/1 mole O2 * 166.22 g/mol * 1000 mg/g = 0.4 mg nic oxidized if all the O2 in the VG reacts. Same amount as from the 10 mL added water. O2 solubility in PG is about the same as in VG.
Thus, if no O2 gets into the VG-nic from outside, the intrinsic O2 present in the headspace, 20% water and VG will oxidize less than 8 mg of nic total in a 50 mL bottle with 4 mL headspace. Might be enough to give a very slight yellow, but most probably not enough to detect in a DIY e-liquid made from it. And even at room temp, this will take some time.
You cannot remove this intrinsic O2. But it is certainly not enough to be worried about even if it all reacts. Most plastics we use are fairly porous to O2 transport through it from the atmosphere, but while glass is virtually impervious to O2, the plastic caps are not, although they are better than typical dropper bottle plastic (LDPE). This is why even at room temperature, VG-nic in sealed glass bottles lasts a long time without significant coloration. But probably not years. So we cool the nic to slow any reaction from O2 invading through the cap to almost zero. Shrink wrap or electrical tape around the cap might help some, but maybe not much. I don't know, but I don't do this myself.
I store undiluted VG-nic mostly at 100 mg/mL for space reasons, and only in glass. For my VG-nics stored cold after 6.5 years there has been no change. I don't know why one batch of PG-nic I had years ago oxidized to deep yellow-orange after about a year, but to be honest it was not as pure as the nic we generally use today, and might have been oxidized somewhat upon getting it (2009 Totally Wicked Red Label). It was in a deep amber glass 30 mL dropper bottle (rubber surrounding) with child-proof cap that might not have been good at keeping O2 out. Rubber is not good at blocking O2 transport. Other purer PG-nic I have had in better sealed glass did fine for the couple of years I stored it. I haven't had PG-nic in my possession as long as my VG-nic, since I don't vape PG-nic. But others here that have stored pure PG-nic have had good results for multiple years in glass in the freezer.
Conclusion: no matter the DIY-nic you get, get it into well-sealed glass, give a bit of headspace for possible expansion (VG/PG expands with heat), put it in the freezer, and worry about it no more."
Based on some careless archeological review of the closet, I started stockpiling in @2012 (better known back then as too lazy to pif or sell, thankfully). @Uncle , the nursing home nic cartel is a jab at my poor mathing skills, not using the nic calculator till recently, and forgetting I have nic in more than one freezer
Okay - I just thought "We" ALL were going / could go somewhere special when the time came, especially if "We" were in NEED . . .
Oh Yea - BTW: Just like "You" I already went through that closet of "Stuff" from 2011 + (Cig-a-like's and the like) a couple of years ago Sold a lot of "Stuff" and PIF most everything else . . . AND - I really NEED to do the same again, especially with all the "Stuff" in there I'm not using and never will use to make room for all that huge stockpile of E-Liquid I'm getting . . . Just Sayin' . . .
Guess I should look for a "Tractor Supply" around here . . . BTW: How much was it per gallon - Was it inexpensive ? ? ?
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I'm game for somewhere special.Okay - I just thought "We" ALL were going / could go somewhere special when the time came, especially if "We" were in NEED . . .
[emoji38] [emoji38] [emoji38]
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