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The Final Count Down -- Are You Ready?

Discussion in 'General Vaping Discussion' started by Rossum, Aug 11, 2019.

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  1. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    NE FL
    NINE
    That's the number of months we have left until the new PMTA deadline.

    Personally, I've been ready for a bit over three years. This thread is mostly intended for people who realize they aren't ready yet but would like help getting there, who aren't willing or able to wade though 23,000+ posts in the Deeming Regulations thread or 24,000+ in the Stocking Up thread.
     
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  2. HigherStateD

    HigherStateD Ultra Member

    Mar 11, 2019
    No. Still need nic in storage, as cracking open juul pods and harvesting doesn't sound appealing.

    A good mosfet or mech squonker would be nice too...
     
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  3. Doffy

    Doffy Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 15, 2014
    Australia
    I am not in the USA. For me, flow on effect is enough to have me worried.

    But mostly, USA is the only country that produces WTA. I can extract it myself. But it is much nicer when cleaned up by expensive lab equipment.

    I've written to manufacturers, about their PMTA plans. Nothing reassuring has resulted. I've requested looking into production to Chinese nic suppliers. Had promised in 2015 one would look into it. Nothing since.
     
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  4. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    NE FL
    Nicotine

    IMO, the single most important thing to ensure you can continue to vape, come what may, is that you have nic base. Nicotine is the obvious choke point for the FDA to control vaping. The EU got their own "TPD" regulations a couple of years ago. These aren't as draconian as what our Deeming regs, but they do restrict the sale of any liquid containing nicotine to bottles no bigger than 10 ml and strength of no more than 20 mg/ml. People who stocked up nicotine base are still vaping pretty much whatever they want, while people who didn't are regretting it.

    That said, I recommend not ordering a bunch of nicotine right now. It's not at all good for it to sit in 100+F trucks during shipment to you. I hope I don't regret giving this advice, but wait until the weather cools off -- so until this fall or this winter.

    In the meanwhile, make space in your freezer, or start looking for a dedicated freezer. 2 - 3 cubic feet is plenty of space for a lifetime's worth of nicotine. You can get something like this or this for $150-$200. Check Home Depot and Lowes too.

    Do I really need to keep my nic base in a freezer?
    You need to keep it cold. IMO, the colder the better. See this thread (only about 650 posts right now). A fridge is almost certainly better than room temperature, but we don't know whether that's good enough over the long term, and we do know that nicotine properly stored in a freezer will still be good as new for after 5+ years (personal experience), and close to 10 years (some other reports). This leads me to believe that it will remain good more-or-less indefinitely when stored properly.

    But I don't DIY my own juice!
    Don't worry about it. You can learn. If you can mix a drink, you can make vapable juice. Initially, you may not like it as much as whatever vendor juice you're vaping now, but you'll get used to it, and it will almost certainly be good enough to keep you from reverting to smoking. Even if you don't feel comfortable mixing yourself, there are plenty of people who do, and would probably be willing to help, if you bring your own nicotine.

    How much nicotine should I buy?
    A liter of 100 mg/ml nic base will last most people three to five years. How long do figure you'll live?
    If you wish to get more precise than that, there's a "Vapocalypse Calculator" here. This was derived from a spreadsheet originally created by our own @mikepetro

    PG, VG, and Flavorings:
    I wouldn't worry too much about those for now. They have plenty of other uses and as long as they're not sold "for vaping", I don't think the FDA can do much to restrict our ability to purchase them.
     
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  5. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    NE FL
    The WTA makers are too small to have any prayer of filing a PMTA. If I were you, I'd stock up on the stuff.

    I found WTA very helpful early on, and still enjoy a bit of it here and there, but I doubt I'll ever go through the couple of hundred ml of 24 and 36 mg that I have squirreled away, and a lack of it wouldn't have me reverting to smoking at this point anyway.
     
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  6. Doffy

    Doffy Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 15, 2014
    Australia
    I very much would revert, even now after nearly 6 years.

    I buy about $400 worth, every thanksgiving (sales) but maxing out at 36mg means it takes much more space than 200mg nicotine. And is more expensive.
     
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  7. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    NE FL
    Have you tried weaning off the WTA very slowly?
     
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  8. Letitia

    Letitia Citrus Junkie ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2017
    West Frankfort, IL
    @mikepetro has a handy equation for figuring out how much you would need to last for ?# of years. I have it at home on my computer, I'll try to link here tonight.
     
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  9. DeloresRose

    DeloresRose Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Apr 25, 2014
    toledo ohio
    @Rossum I agree. Get your nic supply this fall/winter and worry about how to diy later. It’s not that hard. And even bad juice is better than none. I know I would gladly help anyone who wanted to learn, but do not bother to ask me to share my stash. If I’d been stockpiling to share, it would have been with the intention of going black market and gouging the living tar out of buyers.

    Same goes for my gear. I am continuing to buy stuff for my use. At this point I plan to vape until I die, and that might be another 30-40 years.
     
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  10. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    NE FL
    Stand by, I'll add a link to the Nicotine post.
     
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  11. Doffy

    Doffy Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 15, 2014
    Australia
    no

    i was a wreck prior to it, don't want to return to that

    it manages my mentally interesting brain

    really hoping a company in europe, or asia start

    or aroma, om etc stay in business (they are allowed to export indefinitely, just not locally) but unsure if non USA market would fund that for them
     
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  12. Doffy

    Doffy Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 15, 2014
    Australia
    same

    i'm 40, and jealouf of all these 60+ year olds who buy 1 litre to see them out

    a litre lasts me 1 year, and i might keep going 30 years or more
     
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  13. Doffy

    Doffy Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 15, 2014
    Australia
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  14. Letitia

    Letitia Citrus Junkie ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2017
    West Frankfort, IL
    Me too. There are 3 of us I mix for and this fall we will be upping my nic stash to match what we'll need for life. I'm thinking you'll eventually need a permit to buy nic at higher mg.
     
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  15. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    NE FL
    Hardware
    Yes, chances are that very little (if any!) open-system hardware will pass muster with the FDA.

    I'm still far less worried about that than nicotine. Most of the hardware (mods & tanks or atties) that people use these days are made in China. China makes this stuff for a world-wide market and isn't going to stop due to regulations in one country. I also think that it will be nearly impossible to kill the flow of hardware sold by Chinese retailers to individuals in the USA.

    That said, if you already know what hardware you like, it couldn't hurt to buy some backups for it now.

    Personally, I'm settled on and happy with mechanical squonkers that will last a lifetime, but I realize they're not for everyone.
     
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  16. ShowMeTwice

    ShowMeTwice Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jun 28, 2016
    Milwaukee, WI
    Nice thread Rossum. :thumb:

    I'm mostly set. Come fall I'll place my final NN armor order. That will be backup nic for my current life stash. I do think it best to have plenty of extra nic and IMO more than one thinks they'll need.

    I've been picking up extra gear knowing this was coming. The way I see it the only way to secure how I choose to vape is to have backups for the backups. And extra backups beyond those. There will always be a way to DIY so I'm not so concerned there and I have plenty of stash for that too.

    Be very prepared, check your stash and then prepare more.
     
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  17. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    NE FL
    We'll see how this goes. I can always pull the "headline" posts I've written here into a blog.
     
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  18. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    NE FL
    Well, I turned 60 a couple of months ago, and I have rather more than just 1 liter. :D
    (No, don't ask exactly how much I've got. Let's just say I'm confident I won't run out).
     
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  19. englishmick

    englishmick Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Sep 25, 2014
    Naptown, Indiana
    I've got nic. Now I'm worrying about it all being in one place. I need a second backup stash.

    I have buckets full of tanks picked up from clearance sales. Quite a few mods, but you can't rely on regulated mods lasting forever even unused in storage. I have a few mechs and lots of reusable fuses and hot springs. Guess I could get by.

    Now people are talking about whether batteries will be available. Not sure how real that concern is. Even if they develop a new type of battery that is a different size there would still be a lot of flashlights out there sized to take 18650's

    Guess there will always be stuff to worry about.
     
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  20. Letitia

    Letitia Citrus Junkie ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2017
    West Frankfort, IL
    Batteries are the one thing I don't worry about honestly.
     
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