The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread

[stonebrew43]

Have you considered using NET'?

While these have inherent issues with particulate residue as they are extracts, however they yield the most accurate tobacco flavors and accents.

You also do not have use a lot to get "that" tobacco flavor, usually no more than 5% at the very most...

I have considered it, I actually just started researching it. definitely want to give it a try. Just trying to figure out what the best extraction method would be, and how to filter out the finished product. In the mean time, I'll keep trying to get the most out of the flavors I have. I'm usually a shake & vape mixer but I guess you have to be a bit more patient with tobaccos. I'll try a lower flavor mix and give it time to steep.

 

[Papillon61]

my shipping was less than $6.00. seems reasonable considering I'm getting a dozen 125 ml bottles and 9 15 ml bottles of flavors. but, I have no idea what shipping to Malta would be.

Yes that is reasonable. But you live in Indiana and I live 6000 miles away. I don't live in the US. The cheapest of the cheapest shipping to me from the US is a minimum of $23, and that's not even tracked.

 

[ItTechy]

I have considered it, I actually just started researching it. definitely want to give it a try. Just trying to figure out what the best extraction method would be, and how to filter out the finished product. In the mean time, I'll keep trying to get the most out of the flavors I have. I'm usually a shake & vape mixer but I guess you have to be a bit more patient with tobaccos. I'll try a lower flavor mix and give it time to steep.

NET' do not require you to do any filtration, as the size of the particulate generally is microscopic.

Naturally Extracted Tobacco, llc

They are one of many places that does hot and cold extractions and have a very nice variety of tobacco blends.

The issues with ANY extract, even flavorings is the particulate, which leaves a gunky residue ,which occurs quite often in most vape gear.

Unfortunately there is no DIY filtration gear that would offer any improvement in the end product.

I'm an avid believer in the temp control as with the DNA 40 and some of the Chinese chip sets when using ni200 wire.

I have noticed that when I keep the temp control around 400-420 degrees my BVC' or even home made builds never burn and I get a lot more life out of my BVC' than I ever did without the temp control.

 

[Call Me Chuck]

Can someone tell me what TOBACCO ABSOLUTE is? Sometimes it sounds like a TFA flavor, but TFA has nothing by that name at its site. Does Mt Baker or Wizard Labs sell it? If so, under what name?

 

[ItTechy]

Can someone tell me what TOBACCO ABSOLUTE is? Sometimes it sounds like a TFA flavor, but TFA has nothing by that name at its site. Does Mt Baker or Wizard Labs sell it? If so, under what name?

Here is a definition of Tobacco Absolute:

True Tobacco Absolute is a form of NET, usually from semi cured / cured tobacco leaves from one strain / type of tobacco leaf.

It is a very thick liquid (almost a paste) and can be a bit difficult to work with when you first start experimenting mixing with it.

Originally and to this day Tobacco Absolute was never intended to be used in vape concoctions.

The other NET' specifically for vaping which are readily available tend to be much easier to work with as they are usually blended with VG /PG and fully cured and blended tobacco leaves to give a specific tobacco flavor from them; in other words most NET' you would buy as "extracts" to mix in your own recipes, and they are already lets say a "Bourbon Blend Cigar" net, or a "Marlboro cigarette blend".

Below is the breakdown from Eden Botanical' who offers a lot of organic essential oils and extracts.

• Botanical Name: Nicotiana tabacum
• Origin: Bulgaria
• Process: Solvent Extracted Absolute *
  
• Plant Part: Leaves
• Cultivation: Cultivated
• Use: Natural Perfumery
• Note: Base Note
• Aroma: Sweet, slightly smoky, rich aroma reminiscent of fine pipe tobacco
• * These solvents used while not affecting the aroma do affect the taste if vaped!

Historically Tobacco Absolute is used in perfumes for an accent fragrance, vapers starting using it as a tobacco flavor substitute.

There are also naturally inherent possible health risks involved when using Tobacco Absolute in vaping mixtures as the various chemicals used in extraction are generally unknown and do not fall under any FDA regulations because it is not considered for human consumption, this is one reason TPA / TFA does not sell it anymore. If they do it is under the TPA site.

Hope this helps a bit.

 

[Jason Duvall]

It's not greater than 10%


Perfumer's Apprentice
Perfumer's Apprentice

Exactly what I was going to say. I read on their website somewhere that they make their cotton candy as 10% EM diluted in PG. That's why I buy the pre-made.. it saves more time than the little bit of extra money is worth.. imo

 

[john333]

Yes that is reasonable. But you live in Indiana and I live 6000 miles away. I don't live in the US. The cheapest of the cheapest shipping to me from the US is a minimum of $23, and that's not even tracked.

Yeah, wouldn't want to pay that. So I imagine Malta is a beautiful place to live. Do you have vape shops and is it easy to get supplies from say Italy? Indiana is going to put a lot of restrictions on e-liquid starting July 1st this year. I will have to DIY all my liquids and wont be able to buy online. How are the laws there?

 

[b.m.]

I have considered it, I actually just started researching it. definitely want to give it a try. Just trying to figure out what the best extraction method would be, and how to filter out the finished product. In the mean time, I'll keep trying to get the most out of the flavors I have. I'm usually a shake & vape mixer but I guess you have to be a bit more patient with tobaccos. I'll try a lower flavor mix and give it time to steep.

There are several methods people use for extraction,but the one i have found to be the easiest is a simple cold soak.Put a tobacco of your choice in a jar,cover it with pg,let it sit for roughly a month,and you have your extract.As for filtering,same thing,alot of people use different techniques,i use a piece of cheese cloth for the first strain to get the bigger stuff removed,then i take a large syringe,pull the plunger out and stuff some cotton into the bottom.Fill the syringe with liquid,put the plunger back in and push the liquid through the cotton.I get some gunking on my coils using this method,but it's not as bad as some others have gotten on theirs.

 

[chanelvaps]

I have considered it, I actually just started researching it. definitely want to give it a try. Just trying to figure out what the best extraction method would be, and how to filter out the finished product. In the mean time, I'll keep trying to get the most out of the flavors I have. I'm usually a shake & vape mixer but I guess you have to be a bit more patient with tobaccos. I'll try a lower flavor mix and give it time to steep.

I have just started to make NETS. I use the heat extraction process and this filter McMaster-Carr

 

[chanelvaps]

I have just started to make NETS. I use the heat extraction process and this filter McMaster-Carr

If you decide you want to try this PM me and I can help you with the filter as I bought huge piece and will not use it all in my lifetime

 

[hittman]

ItTechy, I wasn't aware that there were NETs available in concentrate for mixing. I might look into that myself. Do you happen to have a link?

 

[chanelvaps]

ItTechy, I wasn't aware that there were NETs available in concentrate for mixing. I might look into that myself. Do you happen to have a link?

3Crown Extract
more than $1 a ml YIKES

 

[chanelvaps]

3Crown Extract
more than $1 a ml YIKES

Extracts
better link

 

[Papillon61]

Yeah, wouldn't want to pay that. So I imagine Malta is a beautiful place to live. Do you have vape shops and is it easy to get supplies from say Italy? Indiana is going to put a lot of restrictions on e-liquid starting July 1st this year. I will have to DIY all my liquids and wont be able to buy online. How are the laws there?

To reply to all you asked will take a volume so I'll try to be brief.

Yes Malta is a very beautiful little island, at least I think so but maybe you can judge for yourself from the hundreds of videos you'll find on Youtube. There aren't many vape shops here no, partly because there aren't that many vapers to start with and also, because of the economy of scale, stuff tends to be a little expensive. That of course, could be a vicious circle... not many people vape so things are expensive or things are expensive because not many people vape so shops can't buy in huge quantities.

Shipping is more or less the same price within the EU. Unless I am buying from Fasttech - because of good prices and free shipping - I mostly get my stuff from the UK. I do buy Nicbase, VG and PG and some flavours from Molin in Poland though. This has mostly to do with legislation - Poland is one of the few places where I can still get Nicbase cross border. Most UK sites are already selling Nicbase only within the UK.

That brings us to the infamous EU Tobacco Products Directive which includes electronic cigarettes as tobacco products even when they are not. Once this idiotic directive comes into force in May 2016 vaping is going to be very restricted, possibly too expensive to even consider. Juices have to undergo sever testing which will be too expensive for small to medium firms. All new equipment has to be presented to the relative authority at least 6 months before it is marketed.. imagine what that is going to do to innovation. Vaping equipment and juices containing nicotine cannot be sold online cross border - Paypal already is refusing any of my orders from anywhere if my order contains the word Nautilus. Within the domestic market, e-cigs can only be sold in containers that cannot leak... so we might actually be going back to something like Green Smoke? .. and the nicotine content cannot exceed 20mg. Whether vaping equipment and/or juice is taxed like tobacco products is left to the individual states to decide. Italy tried it and the excessive tax has been ruled as unconstitutional by the Italian Constitutional Court. So everything is very fluid at the moment, though nonetheless scary. And that's the reason why I have already spent over $2000 in the space of 2 months to stock up on just about everything.

 

[hittman]

Thanks for the links chanel. There are a ton to choose from.

 

[AndriaD]

Here is a definition of Tobacco Absolute:

True Tobacco Absolute is a form of NET, usually from semi cured / cured tobacco leaves from one strain / type of tobacco leaf.

It is a very thick liquid (almost a paste) and can be a bit difficult to work with when you first start experimenting mixing with it.

Originally and to this day Tobacco Absolute was never intended to be used in vape concoctions.

The other NET' specifically for vaping which are readily available tend to be much easier to work with as they are usually blended with VG /PG and fully cured and blended tobacco leaves to give a specific tobacco flavor from them; in other words most NET' you would buy as "extracts" to mix in your own recipes, and they are already lets say a "Bourbon Blend Cigar" net, or a "Marlboro cigarette blend".

Below is the breakdown from Eden Botanical' who offers a lot of organic essential oils and extracts.

• Botanical Name: Nicotiana tabacum
• Origin: Bulgaria
• Process: Solvent Extracted Absolute *
  
• Plant Part: Leaves
• Cultivation: Cultivated
• Use: Natural Perfumery
• Note: Base Note
• Aroma: Sweet, slightly smoky, rich aroma reminiscent of fine pipe tobacco
• * These solvents used while not affecting the aroma do affect the taste if vaped!

Historically Tobacco Absolute is used in perfumes for an accent fragrance, vapers starting using it as a tobacco flavor substitute.

There are also naturally inherent possible health risks involved when using Tobacco Absolute in vaping mixtures as the various chemicals used in extraction are generally unknown and do not fall under any FDA regulations because it is not considered for human consumption, this is one reason TPA / TFA does not sell it anymore. If they do it is under the TPA site.

Hope this helps a bit.

Or, you can select a Tobacco Absolute made by one of the flavor brands that IS meant for vaping -- Inawera has several varieties; I've only tried the Virginia Tobacco Absolute, and it's quite mild. In the Inawera thread, one can find more info.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

There are several methods people use for extraction,but the one i have found to be the easiest is a simple cold soak.Put a tobacco of your choice in a jar,cover it with pg,let it sit for roughly a month,and you have your extract.As for filtering,same thing,alot of people use different techniques,i use a piece of cheese cloth for the first strain to get the bigger stuff removed,then i take a large syringe,pull the plunger out and stuff some cotton into the bottom.Fill the syringe with liquid,put the plunger back in and push the liquid through the cotton.I get some gunking on my coils using this method,but it's not as bad as some others have gotten on theirs.

Nice to know it could be that easy! I don't generally care for most tobacco flavors any longer, but you never know, I might take a wild hair one day...

Andria

 

[ItTechy]

3Crown Extract
more than $1 a ml YIKES

I'm off and on so I'm playing catch up....

Yes his extracts are a bit high, but remember I won't recommend something unless I've tried it and it's good!

Their tobacco extracts are superb, as are their pre-mixed tobacco NET juices!

Personally speaking I intensely dislike tobacco blends or flavors, but as having had been a cigar smoker and have tried several of his cigar extracts, this is where I would go for any NET!

Remember; Quality is not expensive, it's priceless!

If you really want some great, awesome, superb, "D" all of the above NET', you won't be disappointed!

 

[b.m.]

Nice to know it could be that easy! I don't generally care for most tobacco flavors any longer, but you never know, I might take a wild hair one day...

Andria

Yes,it can be very easy,some tobacco will take a bit longer,but i just dip my finger in and taste it every once in a while until it gets where i want it,i let my last ones go for 2 months and they are great.As for price,my last extract i made cost me roughly $10 in materials,and i got about 150ml of extract.The tobacco i used was like $6 a pouch,then about 180ml or so of pg i figure roughly $4,and i still have enough of the tobacco to make another 1000ml at least,possibly more haha.I don't care much for straight tobacco flavors with the exception of cigars which i have 6 as extracts,but i like some of the pipe tobacco blends,and flavored tobacco.I have one going now that is a coffee and vanilla flavored tobacco.

 

[Papillon61]

The tobacco i used was like $6 a pouch,

So you just use a pouch of RYO tobacco? I thought this involved getting the actual leaves which I suppose would be just as easy for you being in America. We don't grow tobacco here. But if it is just a pouch of tobacco I'm off to find some Cavendish tobacco. I've been looking for that flavour everywhere without luck.