Pretty much the same here. I put all the ingredients on the right of me and as I add them I put them on the left so I do not miss anything. For like flavors I even use the same syringe rinsing in warm water between flavors. Only one bottle open at a time. My pg/vg is already mixed, what pg/vg is in the flavors makes no difference to me as I am not Jonas Salk making vaccine. for some flavors I just use drops instead of the syringe. Works for me.
The Flavor Apprentice Flavoring Thread
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Fair enough point about Stumpy, but if he is playing with that fire, he has bigger problems than mixing by weight 
Even by volume, he better be measuring by microliter with full protective gear.
Yes, VG from different manufacturers have different weights per ml, and even different batches from the same manufacturer have different weights per ml. And their results only apply at the specific temperature and atmospheric conditions where it was tested. And if I were mixing something that needed to be a precise volume to the hundredths of a ml or it would kill me, I would a) not use the equipment I have, and b) certainly not use weight.
Andria - specific gravity just means that it is the relative density of a liquid compared to water. One ml of water, at 4C and one atmosphere (earth sea level) weighs 1 gram. Supposedly one ml of my VG under the same conditions would weigh 1.26 grams. It's not 4C here nor is it exactly one atmosphere, which is why ItTechy is making fun of me
and calling me an idiot.
So, let me also say that if it is -45C and I am mixing while scuba diving in the Mariana Trench (although I am only rated for 100 feet, so this is only a theoretical), I will weigh my nic by volume so I don't have to take temperature and atmospheric pressure into account to avoid poisoning myself. I don't think that the calculator takes temperature and atmospheric pressure into account. Can someone get on that?
Believe it or not, I understand your point. Just like I know why if you are baking, you should weigh flour instead of using volume.
But in this case, I think you are pointing out a technicality that is not going to have much of a real-world impact in normal conditions, except for Stumpy. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that if we made the same recipe, our finished products would be indistinguishable, and if you were to chemically analyze them there would be more error from inaccurate measuring than the whole volume/weight argument. But I say that from my equipment, my 10 ml syringes only show 1/5 ml and my graduated cylinder only shows ml. Maybe you use more exact equipment.
Oh, and Stumpy better know the correct way to read volume with his stuff too. He is going to have to have a level handy, and know to read the bottom of the meniscus, and how to correctly clean and dry everything.
Even by volume, he better be measuring by microliter with full protective gear.Yes, VG from different manufacturers have different weights per ml, and even different batches from the same manufacturer have different weights per ml. And their results only apply at the specific temperature and atmospheric conditions where it was tested. And if I were mixing something that needed to be a precise volume to the hundredths of a ml or it would kill me, I would a) not use the equipment I have, and b) certainly not use weight.
Andria - specific gravity just means that it is the relative density of a liquid compared to water. One ml of water, at 4C and one atmosphere (earth sea level) weighs 1 gram. Supposedly one ml of my VG under the same conditions would weigh 1.26 grams. It's not 4C here nor is it exactly one atmosphere, which is why ItTechy is making fun of me
and calling me an idiot.So, let me also say that if it is -45C and I am mixing while scuba diving in the Mariana Trench (although I am only rated for 100 feet, so this is only a theoretical), I will weigh my nic by volume so I don't have to take temperature and atmospheric pressure into account to avoid poisoning myself. I don't think that the calculator takes temperature and atmospheric pressure into account.
Can someone get on that?Believe it or not, I understand your point. Just like I know why if you are baking, you should weigh flour instead of using volume.
But in this case, I think you are pointing out a technicality that is not going to have much of a real-world impact in normal conditions, except for Stumpy. I would bet dollars to doughnuts that if we made the same recipe, our finished products would be indistinguishable, and if you were to chemically analyze them there would be more error from inaccurate measuring than the whole volume/weight argument. But I say that from my equipment, my 10 ml syringes only show 1/5 ml and my graduated cylinder only shows ml. Maybe you use more exact equipment.Oh, and Stumpy better know the correct way to read volume with his stuff too. He is going to have to have a level handy, and know to read the bottom of the meniscus, and how to correctly clean and dry everything.
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Fair enough point about Stumpy, but if he is playing with that fire, he has bigger problems than mixing by weight
Yes, VG from different manufacturers have different weights per ml, and even different batches from the same manufacturer have different weights per ml. And their results only apply at the specific temperature and atmospheric conditions where it was tested. And if I were mixing something that needed to be a precise volume to the hundredths of a ml or it would kill me, I would a) not use the equipment I have, and b) certainly not use weight.
Andria - specific gravity just means that it is the relative density of a liquid compared to water. One ml of water, at 4C and one atmosphere (earth sea level) weighs 1 gram. Supposedly one ml of my VG under the same conditions would weigh 1.26 grams. It's not 4C here nor is it exactly one atmosphere, which is why ItTechy is making fun of me
So, let me also say that if it is -45C and I am mixing while scuba diving in the Mariana Trench (although I am only rated for 100 feet, so this is only a theoretical), I will weigh my nic by volume so I don't have to take temperature and atmospheric pressure into account to avoid poisoning myself. I don't think that the calculator takes temperature and atmospheric pressure into account.
Believe it or not, I understand your point. Just like I know why if you are baking, you should weigh flour instead of using volume.
Because I often make very small quantities, especially when trying out new recipes, I have a large quantity of 1ml syringes, which are marked for .1ml measurements -- with these eyes, it can be tricky to make sure I'm at the correct tenth, but I wear my readers and squint and do the best I can.
I actually do have a graduated cylinder, which I bought when I first started; I haven't taken it out of the cabinet in probably over a year, because of the exact problem you mentioned, the viscosity of the juice makes getting the full quantity out of the cylinder a real challenge, and pouring from a cylinder into a bottle is just one more opportunity for this clumsy person to make a very big mess. I mix in the bottle, and save a lot of distress, time wasting, dishwashing, and potential mess.
Right now the largest bottles I have are 60ml, but that's ok, I want to start vaping it anytime from immediately to within a few days of mixing, and I don't want it to change drastically, sitting in the bottle, and 60ml lasts me about 2wks-ish. Then I'll mix some more.
Andria
Nope. You use the bottle that you are going to keep the liquid in. You use tare to zero out the weight of the bottle, and then any added ingredients.
While I don't "like" the absence of Bill, he's a veritable fountain of DIY knowledge, I certainly understand it. I've never understood why some need to make a big project out of mixing, using all sorts of weird flasks and stirrers and whatnot.My procedure is,
1) check recipe, make sure everything's at the level I want for this particular mix; if not, go online to my calculator, fix whatever, and get a fresh printout;
2) get out everything I'll need -- all the flavors, the WTA, the nicotine, the PG and VG, and a bottle for whatever size mix I'm doing, and several syringes of various sizes, with variously sized needles, because VG, cold nicotine, and WTA need fatter needles;
3) make sure there's enough in each bottle for the requirements of the recipe; if not, fix that in whatever way;
4) starting with PG (because it's usually nearly half of my total mix), mix all the base elements; then add all the flavors, going down the recipe in order so I don't flub it up;
5) shake vigorously for several minutes; as soon as I don't see anymore bubbles, do it again; and finally
6) rinse and clean all syringes, and put everything away.
It's not rocket surgery.
Andria
Andria,
It never ends, just because some Einstein put up a Youtube video, it has to be TRUE!
Even if you had the specific gravity and densities of components, common!
I have a full lab, refractometers, spectrometers, you name it!
To get the accurate specific gravity of any liquid you have to have a calibrated hydrometer; calibrated for THAT liquid, how does one do that...too much to post, and about $10,000.00 worth of analysis lab equipment!
No one measures liquids by weight for that very reason; I mean do you think pharmaceutical companies or pharmacists measure ANY liquids by weight, well take that back, ok when Pharma "A" is making a compounds for production, they do have the proper equipment to KNOW that ingredients "x" weight ratio to liquid, because as I mentioned previously they're mixing ULTRA large quantities, thousands of gallons!
"Ah excuse me sir, I would like to buy a gallon of grapes, and a pound of orange juice! sheesh!
When was the last time your pharmacist mixed up your codeine cough syrup elixir by weighed it!
Ah NEVER!
I'm done...
Bye Bye!
If any of y'all need me, most have my email...
You can't leave! all the plants'll die!
Andria
Hmmm Techy I think you are hung up on this because you are a chemist, and you think I don't understand because I am not. I don't think pharmeceutical companies or pharmacists measure liquid by weight, because their acceptable margin of error is much less than ours. I don't think in your day job, you should be measuring liquid by weight.
I am just saying that if it easier (for me at least), and any error due to inaccuracies in specific gravity is inconsequential, why would I not do it? Without the calibrated hydrometer, tell me, as a chemist, how far off do you think their measurements are for specific gravity? 1%? 10%? I ask not to be combative, I'd really like to know. Are you actually saying that, with the specific ingredients we are using, for our purpose, measuring by weight is dangerous (barring Stumpy level stupidity)? Not pharmacists, not chemists making observations that need to be precise, but making e-liquid. Or are you just annoyed because as a chemist you know to always measure liquid by volume?
In order to make it dangerous, like Stumpy you would have to jump through hoops and ignore any advice and acquire dangerous concentrations of nicotine. For us? Oh no, my 3mg juice might be 3.2 mg, or even 4mg! Heaven forbid! Ignoring the fact that, as a non-chemist, I might make that mistake with volume as well, and even if it were 30mg nicotine it would just give me a headache and nausea. But that is unlikely, since I am not going to put 15 ml of 60mg nicotine into a 30ml bottle no matter what my scale tells me.
I am just saying that if it easier (for me at least), and any error due to inaccuracies in specific gravity is inconsequential, why would I not do it? Without the calibrated hydrometer, tell me, as a chemist, how far off do you think their measurements are for specific gravity? 1%? 10%? I ask not to be combative, I'd really like to know. Are you actually saying that, with the specific ingredients we are using, for our purpose, measuring by weight is dangerous (barring Stumpy level stupidity)? Not pharmacists, not chemists making observations that need to be precise, but making e-liquid. Or are you just annoyed because as a chemist you know to always measure liquid by volume?
In order to make it dangerous, like Stumpy you would have to jump through hoops and ignore any advice and acquire dangerous concentrations of nicotine. For us? Oh no, my 3mg juice might be 3.2 mg, or even 4mg! Heaven forbid! Ignoring the fact that, as a non-chemist, I might make that mistake with volume as well, and even if it were 30mg nicotine it would just give me a headache and nausea. But that is unlikely, since I am not going to put 15 ml of 60mg nicotine into a 30ml bottle no matter what my scale tells me.
You could not be more wrong.I did not even read your post!
I have a BS in applied chemistry, and I KNOW what the duck I'm talking about here!
There are a good many new people into DIY and they do not need to be confused by trying to make gold out of lead!
DIY mixing has enough inherent risks without adding anything!
Well I did read part of it, but here's my point, so you are using 3%, well along comes Stumpy who for whatever reason is buying 500 or 1000mg /ml which IS available as is 99.97% pure (if you want to play with fire)!
So Stumpy decides he is going to use dry measure, well it's off, off enough his mixes of nic are off in large percentages!
Not to mention the density of VG from one manufacturer to another is NOT the same!
My advice is stay clear of dry measure for liquids, ANY LIQUIDS!
Let me ask you this:
When was the last time you bought a pound of milk or a gallon of bacon....!
Just myworth, but hey I don't know nothin!
To state your opinion as absolute fact is very misleading and takes away a lot of credibility from your posts.
I don't mean to insult you in any manner and I hope you don't take it that way.
Bill nor myself need to prove anything to anyone!
Bill is a master mixologist and I'm a certified chemist, both of us with degrees.
All we care about is helping new and existing DIY with recipes, and proven, sound methods, nothing more nothing less.
When you start getting onto symantecs or generalizations, or even rationalizations when working with highly toxic and deadly compounds you are asking for trouble!
I started out vaping @ 48 - 50% nicotine, now if you start jerking around with your measurement system at these levels, YES errors in the wrong direction can make you very sick, or worse!
I have been vaping since 2007, and am a highly educated professional for over 30 years and I won't argue, debate, "D" any of the above.
In science and dispensing / applied chemistry there are NO ABSOLUTES, there are however accepted methods and practices that have been proven reliable, accurate and safe!
Likewise liquid measurement of liquids yields consistent and highly accurate results that result in consistency of the end product.
Matter of fact this is the TFA recipe thread, why don't go start your own thread for solid / weight measurements of liquids?
I will say that both Bill and myself will offer NO advice in weight measuring calculations for any DIY liquid formulas in this forum, and Bill is well aware I'm posting this.
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It was a very informative rant and I, for one, am glad you explained the reasons to use weight for mixing.
I think everybody should be able to do it the way they feel comfortable without any condemning. I appreciated knowing why he weighed things and perhaps others did too.
It is always such a shame when the fighting starts on a thread. This is a very valuable thread and I have learned so much by being here. And I am not going anywhere. I mostly lurk, but I learn.
I appreciate the information on measuring by weight. Fine for those who want to do it that way. I, personally, use volume because that is how I learned and that is what I am comfortable with (and equipped for). It is nice to read other methods, but bottom line is, do what works for you.
I hope this thread does not fall apart because of an argument about methods. My NETty Awards thread kind of fizzled because of arguments. It is still going, but not like I hoped and it has in the past. Man, do I understand the frustration from trying to just give fellow vapers a good resource, only to have it blown up by some silly detail.
I appreciate the information on measuring by weight. Fine for those who want to do it that way. I, personally, use volume because that is how I learned and that is what I am comfortable with (and equipped for). It is nice to read other methods, but bottom line is, do what works for you.
I hope this thread does not fall apart because of an argument about methods. My NETty Awards thread kind of fizzled because of arguments. It is still going, but not like I hoped and it has in the past. Man, do I understand the frustration from trying to just give fellow vapers a good resource, only to have it blown up by some silly detail.
Personally I think that how you go about things is quite irrelevant. Since most recipes are (or should be) posted in percentages, how you measure those percentages is your own private and personal choice dictated by what equipment is available to you, how confident you personally feel about your accuracy and how convenient it may be for you - all personal choices that should not matter to anyone else. There is a reason why we post in percentages - simply because they are the only absolute and abstract measurement applicable in all circumstances.
So you guys put everything behind you - stick to percentages and everyone's happy.
In the meantime I would like your opinion on post 9791 on page 491, which I posted last night, and may have been overlooked in the ongoing argument.
So you guys put everything behind you - stick to percentages and everyone's happy.
In the meantime I would like your opinion on post 9791 on page 491, which I posted last night, and may have been overlooked in the ongoing argument.
Hi guys - haven't been in here for a while.
Right now I am vaping something I made June 10th and which I forgot all about . I called it Creamy RY4D and it's made with
10% TFA RY4 Double
5% TFA Caramel Candy
5% TFA Bavarian Cream
in a 50/50 base at 6mg. I'm dripping it in my Magma.
It's yummy nice even though I don't usually like tobacco vapes all that much. Now I don't know whether I should post this question here and really don't know whether you would know anything about it but I do have a large 100ml bottle of Molinberry RY4. Do you think it could replace the TFA RY4 Double, perhaps with the addition of some sweetener since by all accounts the TFA Double is very sweet?
Gosh it's so good I could drink it!
I don't have an answer for you Pap, but thought I would try to help by bringing your post forward.
I am sort of offended at the recent activity in this thread.
If, in fact, Bill took off because he was tired of explaining things I find that reasonable. He did explain a lot over and over again and I am sure that must get tiring.
I think there is always many ways to do things and I do not think anyone should insult or take jabs at another just because one likes one way and another likes another.
I think most of us have enough to sense to decide which technique, weight or measure works for us and will not confused and blow ourselves up.
I am new around here so my input my not be much but I think everyone should be respectful and KIND
I hope the kind, helpful people in this thread stay so I can continue on my journey of learning this.
If, in fact, Bill took off because he was tired of explaining things I find that reasonable. He did explain a lot over and over again and I am sure that must get tiring.
I think there is always many ways to do things and I do not think anyone should insult or take jabs at another just because one likes one way and another likes another.
I think most of us have enough to sense to decide which technique, weight or measure works for us and will not confused and blow ourselves up.
I am new around here so my input my not be much but I think everyone should be respectful and KIND
I hope the kind, helpful people in this thread stay so I can continue on my journey of learning this.
I for one will not indulge in any more discussions about mixing by weight vs volume.
I did not realize the grammers were so touchy.
I did not realize the grammers were so touchy.
Here's a little something that I picked up from one recipe thread or another and modified to suit me. I think the original recipe was posted as a clone of "Strawberry Clouds" if I remember correctly. Anyway, here's my version.
My mix is 45/55 @5mg nic
TFA Strawberry Ripe 7.5%
Capella Sweet Strawberry 7.5%
TFA Bavarian Cream 10%
TFA French Vanilla Deluxe 5%
TFA Sweetener 5%
Very good right out of the box...gets even better in 24-48 hours...not much change after that (mine never lasts more than a week anyway)
My mix is 45/55 @5mg nic
TFA Strawberry Ripe 7.5%
Capella Sweet Strawberry 7.5%
TFA Bavarian Cream 10%
TFA French Vanilla Deluxe 5%
TFA Sweetener 5%
Very good right out of the box...gets even better in 24-48 hours...not much change after that (mine never lasts more than a week anyway)
Gonna try this for sure. It kind of reminds me of Andrea's shisha strawberries recipe a bit.
I was thinking that, too. Maybe I should get some of the TFA Ripe Strawberry to mix with the Capella Sweet, since I'm trying to get a strawberry flavor that's a) sweet, and b) won't contribute to so much coil-gunk.
But I really prefer the Vanilla Swirl to the French Vanilla... the Swirl is sweeter; always a plus with me!
Andria
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