Disclaimer: No questions here just a post describing my experience with DIY and was created right after finding my own first mix that was an ADV candidate for me. Hence the rambling, was pretty excited at the time......
I *just* started to mix my own ejuice seriously this week. I dabbled in it and ordered a bunch of flavors in the past but everything I mixed was HORRID. Not horrid flavor wise but the vape was just not satisfying as in the store bought stuff, didn't have the same smooth flavor and would definitely get tired of it after a few ml's (usually chucking the rest because it is so lacking in what I seek).
I threw out all my old flavorings and started from scratch. Came up against the same wall, I would mix a juice and it would be vapable but lacked the smooth soul-filling, mouth-coating, deep rich smoothness that I get in some store bought liquids. The three recently that stand out for me is Kings Cream, Sweet Tooth Jaw Busters and Vapor Jedi's Blue Moonshine. The flavors seem so balanced but there *is* something in those that I have never been able to achieve in my own juice. Until TODAY!
I have not read all the relevant posts in their entirety on here yet (holy s$#$ the amount of info btw) but I have digested a good chunk of it. The internet makes mixing juices confusing because I run across as many people saying that additives like EM and such are of no use and others that say they are a staple in their mix.
My current journey is trying to make a peaches and cream type of flavor, and I will refer to my development of this flavor as I traveled through the internet time machine.
I suppose my current situation is due to circumstance. You can't undo something IRL, once you try one of these good store bought vapes you will now know what your missing if you don't have the same thing. I used to really like a fuzzy peach ring vape but it is un-vapable for me today because once I discovered the "full" flavor dimension this one falls flat.
I can kind of make out two camps from what I have been reading:
The Au Natural route -> non bad chemical flavorings mixed straight up. Avoid the usage of any additives or modifiers as much as possible to keep the flavor "pure". Maybe I am confusing this with beginner recipies that do not know how to use the modifiers correctly but I have run across a couple of basic recipes and they call for juicy peach and sweet cream. I mixed them up and same thing, it is a cream and peach taste but its "shallow" and not satisfying.
The Refined Palate method -> Same as above but subtle tweaks and modifications made to fill out the flavor and provide the correct mouth feel / inhale-exhale flavor and feel profile. After reading a ton of recipes and advice I started tweaking the above recipe adding in things such as caramel, sour, tart & sweet, butterscotch pudding etc to see what the additions would do to the flavor profile (and importantly for me: "mouth-feel"). I was very surprised to see that even though you add something CrAzY like butterscotch pudding if you do it in the right proportions you can't taste it, it is only a modifier for the more prominent flavors.
I chalk this up to the whole subjective taste preference thing and that is fine, whatever floats your boat. But which profile fits me? That is what I had to figure out first and I definitely like the creams and the sour/sweet/tart. I think the creators of the 5 star reviewed basic 2 ingredient recipe above either have not tried the modified version or their palate rejects the additions of tart/sweet/sour etc to give that different flavor profile and mouth feel.
SUMMARY:
- All the posts talking about knowing your PG/VG/Nic/flavor taste profiles including at different concentrations are spot on. Also investigating how very small amounts of flavors affect the flavor profile of the more prominent flavors is something you must do on your own. After you get past mixing in more than 2 or 3 flavors the number of possibilities is impossible to generalize and explain. Experiment and then experiment some more.
- Figure out your preferred modified flavor profile. The two peaches and cream types of recipes outline above would determine whether you are yay or nay on the additives. ie prefer clean flavors or amplified sweet/tart/sour/candy (in the case of fruits)
- Figure out how to modify the mouth feel using tart/sweet/sour/creams/champagne/EM/etc.
- Figure out how the pH is being changed and pro actively change it using the above. pH is supposed to be very important in taste from what I understand. Although a large part of this is covered by experimentation - things with the right pH taste better. As you mix stuff up that tastes better you are going in the right direction. Would be easier to know ahead of time though that this set of flavorings will have a more basic pH and will need to add something acidic to offset that.
The final result of my experiment is probably more along the lines of a peach rings and cream flavor rather than a peaches and cream flavor but I am OK with that because I can't stop vaping it and it is the best peachy/creamy flavor that I have tasted yet. (Probably with a healthy dose of bias/placebo due to the circumstances)
I think the stages for developing a flavor for me for now is:
- Figure out the primary flavor profile (peach, cream)
- Figure out the modifiers based on previous experience and experimentation - how to tweak the peach and cream notes using things like other creams/other crazy flavors. Do this by mixing up a batch of base (peach, cream, PG, VG) then distribute in 10mL bottles. Add drops of other things and taste test different combos and ratios. As you try different stuff and see notes appear that are favorable try adding multiples of these together to see if it blows up or blends nicely.
- Kind of in parallel to the above but modify for mouth feel. To me the sour/tart/sweet/EM seems to change it into a candy flavor a bit, but has more of an effect on the mouth feel especially during exhalation. Considering that I would have a more "bitter" tasting liquid at the end of the last step knowing I am going to be adding this in, which should bring the final flavor close to what I want.
- Modify the specific heat capacity of the liquid using distilled water? (this latest version had a touch of water added and really seemed to change the flavor profile to be "cleaner" but this requires more investigation, could just be the sour/tart/sweet changing this as well)
- Since for me I typically use drops (not accurate) I will have a rough idea of the ratios/amounts. After making progress then mix up an accurately measured batch and refine that.
- It is easier to add than it is to remove, so when testing always ramp up the number of drops and test as you go. Can better understand how the flavor is being modified gradually.
I have literally mixed LITERS of very meh liquid and until doing the above finally found the first thing I could ADV. Which was due to the advice on here so thank you all for your advice and guidance!
While writing this I diluted the mix by about half since I was adding so many different flavors and it is now much more peaches and creamy, a light cream but I think tweaking this starting point might lead somewhere......
The internet makes this whole thing confusing because there are lots of opinions and a bit of science behind the mixology. I have read arguments for/against every point of contention which then means I can't even read half of the stuff because I have to go try it myself to see what works for me. The only thing I have really seen a solid consensus on is the bad chemicals to avoid, they are known scientifically to be bad. But even there is a grey area since what is the dosage that starts to cause trouble and how much *exactly* is in the flavors we are using? I have read posts referring to scientific articles suggesting that we are way below AND at the same time way above the safe limits.
It is also confusing since there are tons of recipes out there to try and I stayed on the pure flavor path for so long because of early on reading the argument that you do not need anything exotic and can get amazing flavors from just base flavors. I have tried mixing peaches and cream every which way without the "extras" and it never even came close to this latest version. I think the key was adding in sour/tart/sweet. The flavors present before the additions seem to balance out since I do not get the perception of tart or sour when vaping it. The only thing that really changed was a slightly more candy taste and a "smooth" feel now. True, for some people these would be amazing but for me, not so much. I am sure all the people putting the plain recipes out there and really enjoying them would really dislike my mix.
Anyways, just another day as a n00b, and although all of this is probably "duh" for anyone with quite a bit of experience, I thought this might give other beginners a different perspective though (written by a beginner to beginners at the moment of discovering something ADV'able).......
(I mixed this up by dripping different flavors in the 10mL bottle to experiment and did not keep track of anything. If I ever refine this and measure it out I will post the modified recipe) (Version of original I am talking about: TFA Peaches Cream E-Juice Recipe - 99Juices)
I *just* started to mix my own ejuice seriously this week. I dabbled in it and ordered a bunch of flavors in the past but everything I mixed was HORRID. Not horrid flavor wise but the vape was just not satisfying as in the store bought stuff, didn't have the same smooth flavor and would definitely get tired of it after a few ml's (usually chucking the rest because it is so lacking in what I seek).
I threw out all my old flavorings and started from scratch. Came up against the same wall, I would mix a juice and it would be vapable but lacked the smooth soul-filling, mouth-coating, deep rich smoothness that I get in some store bought liquids. The three recently that stand out for me is Kings Cream, Sweet Tooth Jaw Busters and Vapor Jedi's Blue Moonshine. The flavors seem so balanced but there *is* something in those that I have never been able to achieve in my own juice. Until TODAY!
I have not read all the relevant posts in their entirety on here yet (holy s$#$ the amount of info btw) but I have digested a good chunk of it. The internet makes mixing juices confusing because I run across as many people saying that additives like EM and such are of no use and others that say they are a staple in their mix.
My current journey is trying to make a peaches and cream type of flavor, and I will refer to my development of this flavor as I traveled through the internet time machine.
I suppose my current situation is due to circumstance. You can't undo something IRL, once you try one of these good store bought vapes you will now know what your missing if you don't have the same thing. I used to really like a fuzzy peach ring vape but it is un-vapable for me today because once I discovered the "full" flavor dimension this one falls flat.
I can kind of make out two camps from what I have been reading:
The Au Natural route -> non bad chemical flavorings mixed straight up. Avoid the usage of any additives or modifiers as much as possible to keep the flavor "pure". Maybe I am confusing this with beginner recipies that do not know how to use the modifiers correctly but I have run across a couple of basic recipes and they call for juicy peach and sweet cream. I mixed them up and same thing, it is a cream and peach taste but its "shallow" and not satisfying.
The Refined Palate method -> Same as above but subtle tweaks and modifications made to fill out the flavor and provide the correct mouth feel / inhale-exhale flavor and feel profile. After reading a ton of recipes and advice I started tweaking the above recipe adding in things such as caramel, sour, tart & sweet, butterscotch pudding etc to see what the additions would do to the flavor profile (and importantly for me: "mouth-feel"). I was very surprised to see that even though you add something CrAzY like butterscotch pudding if you do it in the right proportions you can't taste it, it is only a modifier for the more prominent flavors.
I chalk this up to the whole subjective taste preference thing and that is fine, whatever floats your boat. But which profile fits me? That is what I had to figure out first and I definitely like the creams and the sour/sweet/tart. I think the creators of the 5 star reviewed basic 2 ingredient recipe above either have not tried the modified version or their palate rejects the additions of tart/sweet/sour etc to give that different flavor profile and mouth feel.
SUMMARY:
- All the posts talking about knowing your PG/VG/Nic/flavor taste profiles including at different concentrations are spot on. Also investigating how very small amounts of flavors affect the flavor profile of the more prominent flavors is something you must do on your own. After you get past mixing in more than 2 or 3 flavors the number of possibilities is impossible to generalize and explain. Experiment and then experiment some more.
- Figure out your preferred modified flavor profile. The two peaches and cream types of recipes outline above would determine whether you are yay or nay on the additives. ie prefer clean flavors or amplified sweet/tart/sour/candy (in the case of fruits)
- Figure out how to modify the mouth feel using tart/sweet/sour/creams/champagne/EM/etc.
- Figure out how the pH is being changed and pro actively change it using the above. pH is supposed to be very important in taste from what I understand. Although a large part of this is covered by experimentation - things with the right pH taste better. As you mix stuff up that tastes better you are going in the right direction. Would be easier to know ahead of time though that this set of flavorings will have a more basic pH and will need to add something acidic to offset that.
The final result of my experiment is probably more along the lines of a peach rings and cream flavor rather than a peaches and cream flavor but I am OK with that because I can't stop vaping it and it is the best peachy/creamy flavor that I have tasted yet. (Probably with a healthy dose of bias/placebo due to the circumstances)
I think the stages for developing a flavor for me for now is:
- Figure out the primary flavor profile (peach, cream)
- Figure out the modifiers based on previous experience and experimentation - how to tweak the peach and cream notes using things like other creams/other crazy flavors. Do this by mixing up a batch of base (peach, cream, PG, VG) then distribute in 10mL bottles. Add drops of other things and taste test different combos and ratios. As you try different stuff and see notes appear that are favorable try adding multiples of these together to see if it blows up or blends nicely.
- Kind of in parallel to the above but modify for mouth feel. To me the sour/tart/sweet/EM seems to change it into a candy flavor a bit, but has more of an effect on the mouth feel especially during exhalation. Considering that I would have a more "bitter" tasting liquid at the end of the last step knowing I am going to be adding this in, which should bring the final flavor close to what I want.
- Modify the specific heat capacity of the liquid using distilled water? (this latest version had a touch of water added and really seemed to change the flavor profile to be "cleaner" but this requires more investigation, could just be the sour/tart/sweet changing this as well)
- Since for me I typically use drops (not accurate) I will have a rough idea of the ratios/amounts. After making progress then mix up an accurately measured batch and refine that.
- It is easier to add than it is to remove, so when testing always ramp up the number of drops and test as you go. Can better understand how the flavor is being modified gradually.
I have literally mixed LITERS of very meh liquid and until doing the above finally found the first thing I could ADV. Which was due to the advice on here so thank you all for your advice and guidance!
While writing this I diluted the mix by about half since I was adding so many different flavors and it is now much more peaches and creamy, a light cream but I think tweaking this starting point might lead somewhere......
The internet makes this whole thing confusing because there are lots of opinions and a bit of science behind the mixology. I have read arguments for/against every point of contention which then means I can't even read half of the stuff because I have to go try it myself to see what works for me. The only thing I have really seen a solid consensus on is the bad chemicals to avoid, they are known scientifically to be bad. But even there is a grey area since what is the dosage that starts to cause trouble and how much *exactly* is in the flavors we are using? I have read posts referring to scientific articles suggesting that we are way below AND at the same time way above the safe limits.
It is also confusing since there are tons of recipes out there to try and I stayed on the pure flavor path for so long because of early on reading the argument that you do not need anything exotic and can get amazing flavors from just base flavors. I have tried mixing peaches and cream every which way without the "extras" and it never even came close to this latest version. I think the key was adding in sour/tart/sweet. The flavors present before the additions seem to balance out since I do not get the perception of tart or sour when vaping it. The only thing that really changed was a slightly more candy taste and a "smooth" feel now. True, for some people these would be amazing but for me, not so much. I am sure all the people putting the plain recipes out there and really enjoying them would really dislike my mix.
Anyways, just another day as a n00b, and although all of this is probably "duh" for anyone with quite a bit of experience, I thought this might give other beginners a different perspective though (written by a beginner to beginners at the moment of discovering something ADV'able).......
(I mixed this up by dripping different flavors in the 10mL bottle to experiment and did not keep track of anything. If I ever refine this and measure it out I will post the modified recipe) (Version of original I am talking about: TFA Peaches Cream E-Juice Recipe - 99Juices)
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