The misinformed teaching our youth

[dotma]

So we were invited to a lovely dinner at my granddaughter's other grandparents house. Good news, I got 3 smokers to try my Lavatube. Bad news, the last one to try it was their daughter's boyfriend (he is either in his last year of high school or just finished high school). He tried it and said he liked it but then he says -- e. cigs are worse for you than regular cigarettes. My response -- Oh no theyre not! (very mature). I said -- there are 4,000 chemicals in cigarettes. He says -- there are more in e. cigs. Me: Where did you hear that?? Him: My health teacher. Me: What is this guys name and where can i find him?

 

[Kind Head]

Yeah, it's a shame. To be honest I believed the false truth myself before I started vaping. I had a couple people tell me ecigs were worse for you. They said it's been "scientifically proven". I just believed what they told me, never asked for any proof, or what source they got their info from. I really wish I had known more at the time, so I could have called them out, and explained to them the truth.

There is a lot for false propaganda out there. Big tobacco is spreading lies.

 

[dotma]

Yeah i mean i really wonder what part they think is worse for you? He really couldnt tell me anymore than what he said but i would love to have somebody expound on that for me.

 

[Running Wolf]

Realistically.... and according to some health teachers per-martial sex will cause you to become a deformed blind pervert who stalks the adult toy stores....

Amazing that they do not bother to teach kids to think rationally. If you look up tree octopus you will the case in point. Most people today are sheeple, who will blindly follow anything they are told by someone who claims to be an authority.

Two cases of people not thinking critically followed a natural and man made disaster. When Mt. Saint Helen's blew up people were saying the area would be devastated for decades. No one looked at the data in a critical light, they just spouted the same BS they heard someone say. Chernobyl is another case in point. Anti-nuke "authorities" were saying there would be a dead zone around the city for thousands of years.... Come to find out that the levels of radiation actually caused the local animal populations to breed a better resistance to radiation. It is also an area that (now) has some of the highest concentration of endangered species in Europe.

The whole problem is tests in schools are mean for a person to regurgitate facts instead of think. Why bother thinking when you can look something up on line? Why bother looking at a problem and thinking about it after gathering the facts when it is so much easier to just puke out what someone said?

 

[dotma]

Realistically.... and according to some health teachers per-martial sex will cause you to become a deformed blind pervert who stalks the adult toy stores....

Sorry, I can't see this -- and I need to go shopping for umm supplies . . . .

 

[dotma]

No i totally agree with you. No thinking, no reasoning, just regurgitation. But am I doing the same thing by regurgitating "facts" that I have learned through researching on the internet and heard from others on this forum? Although I know the scientific data thus far has proven how bad cigarettes are. And reasoning tells me that sucking in burning chemicals is probably not good. And I have never made my own cigarette, but I have made my own e. juice and if there are over 4,000 chemicals in that stuff, well then im definitely missing something.

 

[Running Wolf]

Exactly... and "harm reduction". What the term they use in business? "Risk analysis".

I've been inhaling 4000+ chemical additives in cigarettes for 27 years. Hmmm, PG inhalation has been studied and is used in hospitals for lung transplant patients. The flavorings and VG are an unknown at this time (for long term inhalation effects). After looking at it like that I have to think that the 5 or 6 chemicals in the flavoring and the VG would have less effect on my body than the 4000+ chemicals the cigarette manufactures don't want to know about.

Granted that inhaling a heated vapor into your body is not good for you it also stands to reason that it is better than inhaling a hotter burning plant material with more chemical additives.

I did look into things when I started vaping, and still look into them. From the info I have digested it seems like all the hype is coming from one FDA report that had a flawed methodology. For the most part most other studies say that in moderation the chemicals in juice are safe in moderation but warn that no long term studies have been done.

Seems the FDA analysis is as flawed as the study that is famous for saying that ......... causes brain cells to die. That study didn't have air holes in the masks that the primates were wearing. They were basically given a huge dose of only smoke to breath. They died of asphyxia which causes brain cells to die. People just wanted to cling to the results they wanted instead of looking into the methodology of the experiment.

Oh man do I need to go back to school and get a gig as a scientist

 

[DeadPerfect]

he needs to get his ... beat.

 

[DaveP]

The teacher who propagated that information needs to be held to the truth. In a career, thousands of kids could be filled with opinionated information spewed by an uniformed source. There's no telling what other disinformation that teacher has disseminated.

 

[nopatch]

. He says -- there are more in e. cigs. Me: Where did you hear that?? Him: My health teacher. Me: What is this guys name and where can i find him?

The health teacher was right.Eliquid has more quantity of "added chemicals" than cigarettes.Quantity wise it is about 100 times more.
Also the ecig vapor has about 100 times more concentration of added chemicals than cigarette smoke.

 

[nopatch]

Exactly... and "harm reduction". What the term they use in business? "Risk analysis".

I've been inhaling 4000+ chemical additives in cigarettes for 27 years. Hmmm, PG inhalation has been studied and is used in hospitals for lung transplant patients. The flavorings and VG are an unknown at this time (for long term inhalation effects). After looking at it like that I have to think that the 5 or 6 chemicals in the flavoring and the VG would have less effect on my body than the 4000+ chemicals the cigarette manufactures don't want to know about.

Granted that inhaling a heated vapor into your body is not good for you it also stands to reason that it is better than inhaling a hotter burning plant material with more chemical additives.

I did look into things when I started vaping, and still look into them. From the info I have digested it seems like all the hype is coming from one FDA report that had a flawed methodology. For the most part most other studies say that in moderation the chemicals in juice are safe in moderation but warn that no long term studies have been done.

Seems the FDA analysis is as flawed as the study that is famous for saying that ......... causes brain cells to die. That study didn't have air holes in the masks that the primates were wearing. They were basically given a huge dose of only smoke to breath. They died of asphyxia which causes brain cells to die. People just wanted to cling to the results they wanted instead of looking into the methodology of the experiment.

Oh man do I need to go back to school and get a gig as a scientist

That 4000+ chemical additives in cigarette is a myth.Additives in cigarettes are miniscule and there never was 4000 additives to begin with.

Little fact check

 

[mekks]

Another little fact check here a list of 599 additives have been submitted for cigarettes, correction on the 4,000 chemicals are produced with a "burning" cigarette.

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hc-ps/tobac-tabac/fact-fait/combustion-eng.php
List of additives in cigarettes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
599 Ingredients added to Cigarettes

Also expect to experience almost every withdrawal symptom with e-cigs with exception of extreme mood swings and depression and if your lucky maybe a few more. Also do expect cravings but not nearly as bad as when using the patch/gum or inhaler. Which i'm sure anyone who has given an honest go at vaping can speak from some experience.

*Side note* People that can't efficiently use google to ensure they preach the facts right really urk me. As the original poster said the misinformed teaching our youth.

 

[AfterFX]

It's pretty sad. I was a closet smoker, now I've become a closet vapor. To my smoking friends I push it. However, to my non smoking friends (those that have never smoked), I've learned quickly just to say "I quit". If I am confronted, I let them know, everything in this, with the exception of nicotine, is in most of the processed junk you eat and drink.

 

[jpracing]

This is interesting. Could you expound on that?
Not here to try and discredit you. Just want to have lots of info.

The health teacher was right.Eliquid has more quantity of "added chemicals" than cigarettes.Quantity wise it is about 100 times more.
Also the ecig vapor has about 100 times more concentration of added chemicals than cigarette smoke.

 

[TonyTT]

No i totally agree with you. No thinking, no reasoning, just regurgitation. But am I doing the same thing by regurgitating "facts" that I have learned through researching on the internet and heard from others on this forum? Although I know the scientific data thus far has proven how bad cigarettes are. And reasoning tells me that sucking in burning chemicals is probably not good. And I have never made my own cigarette, but I have made my own e. juice and if there are over 4,000 chemicals in that stuff, well then im definitely missing something.

To be fair, when I looked up the tree octopus, I had my doubts, and if you think critically, you can see the humour. But I had no way of knowing. So I read more, but to confirm the hoax, I used Wiki...and I'm not to happy with that either.

I ended up just using common sense, but the reality is, There is no way for me to confirm the existance or non-existance of a tree octopus...

We could focus more on only using credible sources of information (peer-review credible journals and studies), but at the end of the day everyone just has to make their own judgement call.

I think the best you can hope for is to gather all the information you can, and make as informed a decision as possible.

 

[dotma]

I have looked at the links that people have put up, interesting. I think it is more important what is in the smoke (as the links from Mekks show) as opposed to just additives in the cigarettes themselves. If you just talk about the additives without the combustion part, well that does not really compare to smoking a cigarette, but maybe more to eating one.

 

[mekks]

It's pretty sad. I was a closet smoker, now I've become a closet vapor. To my smoking friends I push it. However, to my non smoking friends (those that have never smoked), I've learned quickly just to say "I quit". If I am confronted, I let them know, everything in this, with the exception of nicotine, is in most of the processed junk you eat and drink.

My vaping experience is the smokers are skeptics, the non-smokers surprisingly supportive. Even a few of the hard core non-smokers at work encourage me to use the e-cig and don't mind it in the office. They would rather that then I head outside for a real ciggie.

I have looked at the links that people have put up, interesting. I think it is more important what is in the smoke (as the links from Mekks show) as opposed to just additives in the cigarettes themselves. If you just talk about the additives without the combustion part, well that does not really compare to smoking a cigarette, but maybe more to eating one.

I had to LOL at the eating one, the additive list might be good if your into chewing tobacco but not for the vast majority of us light up when we smoke. Plus the 599 additives are what was submitted by a few companies, still leaves the question was something left out and if so what. I'd rather take my chances on the PG, VG, nicotine and flavoring used in the E-cigs and deal with reputable companies. My gut tells me they would have much more luck listing their ingredients on a package then any tobacco company will have.

 

[jpracing]

Scratch that....
NoPatch: Of your 90 posts, the majority tends to be on threads that discuss e-cig issues with regard to safety, research, doctors opinions, and so forth. You even argue that the vapor we inhale should me labeled as mist.
Are you here to enlighten us or to discredit others?
Because, as far as I have read, you haven't given anything as proof as much as you ask of others.
Just a question based on your posts so far.

 

[nopatch]

This is interesting. Could you expound on that?Not here to try and discredit you. Just want to have lots of info.

Quantity of chemicals in cigarette are less than 2%.Coming to cigarette smoke vs vapor(Or Mist) the actual chemical content in ecig vapor is much much higher compared to cigarette smoke.Cigarette smoke is harmful because it contains carcinogens, particulate matter(Tar etc) and carbon monoxide.Chemical additives are of little concern.About 90% of cigarette smoke is air, carbon dioxide and water and of the remaining 10% only co(Carbon monoxide) is in higher quantity(About 5%).reference for cigarette smoke analysis:Table A2. http://legacy.library.ucsf.edu/documentStore/k/e/c/kec34a00/Skec34a00.pdfRegarding the approved list of 599 plus additives.They are just that; approved list. Total chemical additives in cigarette are less than 0.05% if you disregard pg and vg added by some manufacturers like marlboro(Philip morris).

Coming to evapor; it contains from 10_30% pg or vg. A simple calculation can give minimum pg or vg concentration.Taking single puff as 35 ml and one ml of ejuice giving 200 puffs(This is actually unrealistically high estimate; the number of puffs) minimum 15% of vapor contains VG or Pg.

weight of 15 ml puff = 15mg Approx.

Total weight of 200 puffs 200 *15 mg =7 grams
weight of 1ml pg/vg = 1gram Approx.
percentage of vg/pg in a single puff= 1/7 *100 i.e 15%.

Since 1ml practically gives only 60-70 puffs one can see the vg/pg percentage going up to 40%.High voltage and manual devices obviously give still higher percentage vg/pg in vapor.If flavoring ingredients like pyrazines are taken in to account some eliquids(chinese) contain about 2% pyrazine while marlboro has less than 0.03% pyrazines(All variants).Most of the 8000 chemicals generated in cigarette smoke are in very small quantities.Number of chemicals in cigarette smoke is not the problem but the major harm delivered by a small percentage of carcinogens and Particulates.

 

[36tinybells]

Alright, nopatch, riddle me this: why, after visiting the doctor following switching to pv for 6 months did I have such a remarkable checkup? Why do I no longer cough every day and WHY did I get through November and December and January without the annual Bronchitis that I have had for 3 months every year for the last 6 years?

Maybe you are just wrong. I believe in the little science experiment I conducted on my body for about 30 years and the one I started last April because I have medical proof. What on earth on you even here for if you think vaping is so bad?