The Mythology of Steeping Part I

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RobertNC

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Now that I have your attention, lol, in searching for something else on the Web I encountered the same thing over and over again, and then again on various people's blogs. What I had always thought was simply very poor use of terminology seems to be based on several widely expoused "theories" that are nothing more than mythology with no credible basis. This leads to poor and potentially damaging misuse of terminology - for example it easily implies to the greater scientific community (who mostly get their terminology right at least) that seemingly all liquids are in fact at some point based on tobacco leaf.

It also leads to confusion about what actually is happening to the liquid over time, which is more why I am posting. FDA is going to do what they are going to do, some zealots will insist that "steeping" in fact is what happens, most people will be too lazy or indoctrinated to change, but it is possibly at least helpful to not attribute mystical processes to what is really going on in your juice.

First to review "steeping" is term which is specific to a process in which a solid is held in contact with a liquid, usually a solid plant based material and usually for purposes of extraction of flavorants, alkaloids etc from the plant. This is exactly what is going on when people extract tobacco leaves by typical WTA or NET processes. If you are working with bottles of flavor you generally should not have solids present. (I've seen a few, I call them "defective" myself).

So here are the two big things I see most often which are just dead wrong:

1) When a compound is dissolved in PG or PGA or PG/VG it in fact takes some days or weeks even for the "solids" to be fully "absorbed" into the liquid, or some such similar nonsense. I will spare you the thermodynamic arguments, this is simply not true. Either you still have solids present, in which case you likely don't have a flavorant you can use yet, or you have a solution, in which case the compound in solution is simply in solution and has no "memory" that it was ever even a solid etc etc etc (BTW in fact many flavorants are actually liquids in pure form, not solids). I can state unequivocably that no such phenomenon of this lengthy "absorption into PG etc" process in fact exists, based more or less on the same fundamental thermodynamic laws that allow me to also say unequivocably that a cup of coffee I've left on the desk all morning will never suddenly spontaneously warm itself back up.

This idea appears to be the root of adopting the term "steeping", but the concepts described are contrary to and precluded by well known scientific facts about the behavior of solutions.

2) Part of the "steeping" process involves the "gradual transfer of flavorants from PG into the more viscous VG over time". Again absolutely false. There is no concept of separate distinct PG or VG phases in PG/VG mixtures, they are miscible and form uniform solutions. Also when you put PG or PGA based flavorants into PG/VG or even VG to make a new solution all you need is either a short time and they will uniformly distribute themselves on their own, or just a good shake or two will do the same thing.

Bottom line is unless you are tossing in a vanilla bean or extracting tobacco leaves and clearly have a solid phase present, the term "steeping" does not even apply, and all these various theories about how things distribute themselves between PG and VG for example have no basis in actual thermodynamic reality.

You are not "steeping" your vape liquid, you are *aging* it. Plain and simple.

The actual changes may not be well understood because we tend to not have the analytical facilities to observe them. But the key phenomenon that are actually occurring are straightforward enough, and I will discuss them in Part II.

In the meantime, look at a can of Budweiser, it is "Beechwood Aged", not "Beechwood Steeped". They have it right. They are even throwing in beechwood chips, so they appear to meet the basic system requirements of a "steeping" process - a solid phase is present. But they are not attempting extract the beechwood, it is a medium to absorb fusel alcohols and other off flavors out of the beer during the carbonation step.

Again, You are aging your liquid, not steeping it.
 
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englishmick

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What you are saying about the use of the word steeping makes sense. Might be one of those things we are stuck with though.

I heard that one of the main reasons for doing it was to allow the alcohol from flavourings to evaporate off, hence top off steeping. Along with some of the other "myths" you mentioned. Thanks for posting this.

Looking forward to part 2.
 

RobertNC

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The liquid is not really e-juice, just liquid.

Exactly. I'm editing my post to reflect that. You have nothing more than solutions in PG/VG, liquids for vaping follow the same thermodynamic laws as any other solution, we should reject bad science and use terminology properly to reflect that what we are doing is no different fundamentally from a host of other formulation processes.
 

Kable

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Good information. Just to play the devils advocate, though, sometimes different disciplines will use the same terminology to mean different things. For example, if you ask a medical professional what a vector is, then you ask a mathematician, you will get two very different answers. In these situations, context is important. I think vapers tend to have their own jargon that borrows terminology from other areas, and it is helpful to understand what terms mean outside of this context. I look forward to reading part II.
 

Visus

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Actually your all wrong with assumption aging does not infer steeping or vice versa..
Steeping is the accepted vaping definition as also some use hot baths to steep in aging a liquid/etc usually is aged at ambient..

definition of steep:
merriam-webster
3steep verb
: to put (something) in a liquid for a period of time
Full Definition of STEEP

transitive verb
1
: to soak in a liquid at a temperature under the boiling point (as for softening, bleaching, or extracting an essence)
2
: to cover with or plunge into a liquid (as in bathing, rinsing, or soaking)
3
: to saturate with or subject thoroughly to (some strong or pervading influence) <practices steeped in tradition>
intransitive verb
: to undergo the process of soaking in a liquid

4steep noun
Definition of STEEP

1
: the state or process of being steeped
2
: a bath or solution in which something is steeped
 

Mr.Mann

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I still have yet to see anyone using an electronic cigarette, but this is ECF. Technically speaking, a cigarette is a small cylinder of finely cut tobacco leaves rolled in thin paper for smoking, so an electronic version of that is not actually represented on a forum that bears its name. And another thing, while the points you made are technically correct, let's not assume that vapers as a whole are unaware of this, for to make that assertion is kinda condescending and discounting the intelligence of a rather bright community. I get the points made and so do most others despite the usage of the term, but it is what it is and terms can change their definition when the usage becomes widespread -- there are myriad words like that, but no I don't mean 'myriad' as in a unit of ten thousand.
 

ckquatt

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I've always used the term "aging". Steeping is what you do with a tea bag in a cup of hot water. Aging is letting a liquid sit in a closed container to mature. Standard definitions and easy to understand.

But I don't get my panties in a wad about how people use the terms. Different strokes for different folks and all that jazz.

Sent from my Atari 2600 using Tapatalk
 

440BB

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As heat, ultrasonic waves and opening the liquid container are used by many to get that full flavor, perhaps we need a more useful term: ripening!

I call on all liquid makers to offer up a graphic indicating level of ripeness, so as not to mislead the average vaper. Here is the scale:

bananastages.jpg
 

Hoosier

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I must admit that was one of the longest versions of the dislike the term steeping I've seen in a few years. Longer ones usually included the dislike for the word Vape and sometimes atomizer.

My family calls the process of simmering stew or soup Steep or Steeping, but they also call a green pepper a Mango. Nice Burn from a family member means you made a very excellent version of a recipe.

But I drive on a parkway and park in a driveway because the language is silly. I do get a chuckle out of attempts to make colloquialism technically correct though so this was good fun.
 

AndriaD

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Again, You are aging your liquid, not steeping it.

I argued this for months after my arrival here, for exactly the same reason -- I'm a tea drinker, so I know what "steeping" *really* is, and it plays no part in ejuice, except, as you say, at the very beginning of some of the processes where tobacco leaves or other solids have their flavors extracted.

But it's a losing battle; no one cares if it's really steeping or just aging; they're going to keep using that term, just as most people continue to use the term "e-cigarette" for something that's 10 inches long and an inch in diameter -- mainly because if you use the terms "mod," "vaporizer," or "PV" to the non-vape-literate, they'll have no earthly idea what you're talking about.

This forum has been going on for about 5-6 yrs now... and they JUST changed the "General Vaping Discussion" forum name from "General E-Smoking Discussion" LAST YEAR, towards the end of the year.

As for the time length... if you use enough flavoring, you can often "mix and vape"... except with tobacco flavors. They *usually* need to sit for some length of time, to be really good -- I say *usually* because I have in fact mixed a tobacco vape that was vapable right from mixing -- but that's rare with tobacco flavors.

I'm still very much in a learning phase, with DIY, but what I've learned so far is that about using high enough percentages to make a good vapable ejuice right from the get-go, BUT, ejuices can and do change their flavor over time, so if you're going to "mix and vape", you either need to do it in small quantities, OR, add citric acid to the mix, which apparently stabilizes it. I haven't tried that latter; since I'm still so new at it, I never mix more than 30ml at a time, which I can vape in about a week or 10 days.

Andria
 

Danbrooks2k

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I thought I was allowing a little evaporation and the different flavorings to continue to break down and be better absorbed into the base liquid making the flavor more dense.

I have been told for two years that this was called steeping.

Hmmm... I think I will probably go with the thousands of e-liquid users that have agreed upon the term steeping. It seems a little silly to try to argue the fact now.

I only looked at this thread to see if there was some new technique i could use to do it better or faster.

Complete and utter waste of time, bandwith and disk space. But have fun... this being a complete waste of time is just my humble opinion.

Gotta run, I have some pre steeped juice to vape.
 
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