The nicotine content of your old brand vs your carts.

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v1John

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The thing is that determining what is over limit is not very clear. Excessive nicotine seems to appear with very similar symptoms found in nicotine withdrawal, if I remember.
But for some reason I think I've heard of nausea as well. What made people drop in the strength of jusice? I mean, what specific symptoms?



I do think that only a small portion gets absorbed by the body. But why? I don't know. The bottles are supposed to be kept in a cool and dark place. But what happens to the nicotine molecules once they are floating near the very hot atomizer?

Other questions I've wondered about: If you puff an ecig. like an analog, and then inhale after one second, is much of the nicotine actually destroyed in the mouth's lining and enzymes, etc.?
 

Burnt-Toast

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Mar 20, 2010
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The thing is that determining what is over limit is not very clear. Excessive nicotine seems to appear with very similar symptoms found in nicotine withdrawal, if I remember.
But for some reason I think I've heard of nausea as well. What made people drop in the strength of jusice? I mean, what specific symptoms?

For quite a few people it's when the nicotine hits your lungs too hard resulting in a cough, gag, or "harsh" hit characteristics. For others it would probably be a head rush. For me, it's if I cough trying to take each hit on the PV it is too high.

But what happens to the nicotine molecules once they are floating near the very hot atomizer?

If it is running very hot then you lose what appears to be about 1-8% of the nicotine strength (as tested on a 510 unit).

Except it looks like a good idea to keep atty coil 'wet & gurgling'
to keep it from starting to glow during a draw, even then > 90% came across.
Source: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...otine-destroyed-during-vaping.html#post779018

Other questions I've wondered about: If you puff an ecig. like an analog, and then inhale after one second, is much of the nicotine actually destroyed in the mouth's lining and enzymes, etc.?

An answer (basically it depends on the PH, and I've only been able to find passing evidence but PG is supposedly 7.0 or higher, as in more effective than most cigarettes. I'm still looking for a more conclusive reference for this though):
The pH of smoke from flue-cured tobaccos, found in most cigarettes, is acidic (pH 5.5–6.0) (Sensabaugh and Cundiff, 1967; Brunnemann and Hoffmann, 1974). At this pH, nicotine is primarily ionized. As a consequence, there is little buccal absorption of nicotine from flue-cured tobacco smoke, even when it is held in the mouth (Gori et al., 1986). Smoke from aircured tobaccos, the predominant tobacco used in pipes, cigars, and some European cigarettes, is more alkaline (pH 6.5 or higher), and considerable nicotine is unionized (Sensabaugh and Cundiff, 1967). Smoke from these products is well absorbed through the mouth (Armitage et al., 1978).
Source: Metabolism and Disposition Kinetics of Nicotine ? Pharmacological Reviews

Still digging :D
 

Desertfremen

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Well lets see. I'm having a hard time here, see the cigs I smoked right before I switched to vaping are not on these lists. Kool *XL* Blues usually but sometimes I had to throw in a pk of greens b/c alot of the times the blues just wouldn't cut it. I'm gonna take a guess but put the avg at 1mg/cig. I smoked about 1.5pks/day (avg) So 30mg/day.

Going by the 40% standard so .4x = 30mg, x= 75mg/day vaping. Sounds about right.

If I do 36s (which I find are much more satisfying) that's just a little over 2 carts/day. When I was trying to use the 24s (which I've recently realised just don't cut it unless I use it as a pacifier) it was a bit over 3 carts/day.

That works out pretty close to what I've been vaping.

As far as nic dependancy falling, nope. I tried to stay on the 24s for about a month but just gave up. I was seriously sucking on 24s and just not getting it so I gave up and went back to 36s. So far 36s are good. I also tried 18s and 11s initially with a bad result: literally getting so tired that I'd just crash even with keeping my caffeine intake up. (which I've had to lower this recently as well too! wah! but that addiction was getting worse than my nic addiction. 3000mg/day! 8-o)

At my worst with smoking I was consuming 78mg of nic/day when I smoked my beloved Kool NFs!
 

Burnt-Toast

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Mar 20, 2010
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Well lets see. I'm having a hard time here, see the cigs I smoked right before I switched to vaping are not on these lists. Kool *XL* Blues usually but sometimes I had to throw in a pk of greens b/c alot of the times the blues just wouldn't cut it. I'm gonna take a guess but put the avg at 1mg/cig. I smoked about 1.5pks/day (avg) So 30mg/day.

Going by the 40% standard so .4x = 30mg, x= 75mg/day vaping. Sounds about right.

If I do 36s (which I find are much more satisfying) that's just a little over 2 carts/day. When I was trying to use the 24s (which I've recently realised just don't cut it unless I use it as a pacifier) it was a bit over 3 carts/day.

That works out pretty close to what I've been vaping.

As far as nic dependancy falling, nope. I tried to stay on the 24s for about a month but just gave up. I was seriously sucking on 24s and just not getting it so I gave up and went back to 36s. So far 36s are good. I also tried 18s and 11s initially with a bad result: literally getting so tired that I'd just crash even with keeping my caffeine intake up. (which I've had to lower this recently as well too! wah! but that addiction was getting worse than my nic addiction. 3000mg/day! 8-o)

At my worst with smoking I was consuming 78mg of nic/day when I smoked my beloved Kool NFs!

Just out of curiosity, even while using 36mg cartridges, do you find that you tend to vape more regularly than you smoked? Or do you tend to use it like a cigarette (6-12 hits then set it down for an hour or two)?

Thanks for the feedback everyone! I've been a bit busy with work, but I think I'm gonna try and make this strength / usage calculator after all. I am just needing some more information, and I have recently gotten 60+ new flavors from V4L I am trying out for a comparative analysis (thats what I'm gonna call it anyways :thumbs:).

If anyone else could share their previous habit -> new habit comfort zone / usage information that will help me make this project a lot more accurate.

After all, I can guess a lot, but it will only be useful and fun if it works right!

Thanks,
 

pianoguy

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I vape a lot more than I smoked - my routine is waaaaaaaay different now. I never smoked in the house, and haven't been able to smoke at the office for years, so I always had to stop and take a break to go out for a smoke. Now I am able to vape at will in my office and at home. I find that when I use a low-mg (like 6) juice, my PV is almost like a pacifier. I noticed the other day that when I was using up one of my stash of 24mg cartos, I was taking a drag much less frequently. At any rate, I never seem to get the old "I need to have a cigarette right NOW" feeling, probably since I am taking in a more consistently regular dose of nicotine.
 

Burnt-Toast

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Very interesting thread! But I have to agree with Gamer on this one, every cig i used to smoke was one less person I wanted to kill ;)
I'm at 18mg on my carts and juice and I feel good with it and I used to smoke ultra lights, but am going to start ordering 11mg soon to see if that cuts it.

Thanks for the feedback!

I've been wanting to post this for a little while but this looks opportune:

In General:
If you want to give trying a lower nic content the best shot possible; here are my suggestions and reasoning. Some of this is fact, some of this is my personal experience:

Note: Don't set yourself up for failure or even make it a pass-fail proposition in your head. There is no such thing as failing at this. Let yourself enjoy your addiction as you weaken it. (I personally think this is the #1 reason why NRT systems fail miserably. People get overwhelmed by their own bodies and the lopsided battle of will vs. addiction + habit to the detriment of the effort it's self. NRT traditionally has us do battle against what we really "want" without much attention to the why we want it part. Seriously, go only as fast as... well... it goes... )

This is a three phase (tease, step, train) system for reducing intake. First we tease your brain into pursuing something tasty in place of something as chemically rewarding to the addiction. Second, we pull a little bit of the chemical addiction rug out from underneath the cravings by stepping down the intake while distracting yourself with some variety and rewards. And third, you train your brain to work off of the now lowered nicotine intake and enjoy more variety without the empty or "missing" feeling common with other ways of doing this.

To go through each phase according to how I am laying it out here you will need to change the ratios of what you consume and when you consume them. I'll try and keep this as simple and memorable as possible.

To start each phase take your current usage for each week (you can pick a longer time frame if you bulk order) and split it into 3 parts:

1/4 "high" = your current strength
1/2 "medium" = the next strength @ one step lower than "high".
1/4 "low" = half of your "high" strength in flavors which you haven't tried yet or you like a lot. Experiment a little

Just remember that "high" goes to the strength you are switching from, "medium" is the strength you are switching to, and "low" is the teaser you are using to distract yourself (and makes the "medium" more chemically rewarding by comparison to the "low"). Avoid using the same flavor for multiple strengths if possible.

Steps:

1.) Choose to do it, but don't set an end-date; only a (single step) start date. Don't even set yourself goals on when you will make the next step down. Treat each step separately and individually. This isn't a race.

2.) Purchase the requisite supplies outlined above. Then forget about it until the morning arrives for you change to your habit a little. Don't try to change anything mid-day or in the evening. It won't work well that way at all. Keep reading for some info on why.

3.) Eat a heavy dinner and drink lots of hydrating (not stimulating or alcoholic) fluids the night before the day you will start switching strengths around. Make it a meal you enjoy and try to have it a little late in the day and relatively close to bedtime by within about an hour (no, this isn't terribly healthy, but it's very helpful). Don't pay much attention to how much nicotine you consume as a direct side effect of the meal and beverages. Just don't take in more than you normally would and don't stay up late or cram caffeine or alcohol (don't fear the next day, it will go fine). Try and get a full night's sleep. This procedure is actually much more important than you think for clearing out as much nicotine as possible while you sleep. This gives you an excellent place to start the next day at.

Daily routine starts below here:

4.) When you wake up the next morning, substitute your high strength for the new low strength as the first step in the morning. You WILL feel slightly under satisfied but that is why you picked a tasty flavor for "low" right? Try to enjoy the flavor a little. Don't wake up and give yourself a big shot of nicotine first thing otherwise your body will expect to maintain that level and rate of increase for the rest of the day. Starting on high strength will mitigate most attempts at changing anything for that day. Potentially expect a little bit of grogginess. If you drink caffeinated beverages don't change your normal intake one way or another.

5.) After you eat, exercise, or get an adrenaline rush and get the "heavier" craving; use the high strength for the next "use" (except breakfast or morning exercise, then use the medium strength for the next use. ). Use your low strength flavors about an hour or two after that surge until you get a normal craving again. Don't try and use a low or medium strength directly after those three activities for at least the first week or two (within 1 hour) and after that until you are comfortable with doing this. The objective is to kill the heavy craving caused by these activities with the "high" strength but then counter it with a 1 hour cool-off (minimum) on the low strength before resuming your new medium strength usage. Try different flavors, it will help make this rather enjoyable.

This lets the nicotine levels in your blood drop a bit from the big surge before using a "medium" strength again. It is very important to try addressing normal cravings NOT caused by eating, exercise, or adrenaline rushes by using "medium" strength supplies at best, not "high". The reason it is important is because those activities increase how fast nicotine is flushed from your system. And if you aren't really flushing it from your system faster than normal (I.E. not eating, exercising or getting your adrenaline up) then you don't want to work against yourself by boosting it up higher than it would normally have been at the same time and suffering from the "crash" afterwards.

6.) Between 1 hr after your after-meal/after-exercise high or medium strength vape until the next meal or activity; use the medium strength for most of your vaping. Try killing a stronger craving with low strength tasty flavors and if that doesn't start to satisfy after a couple of puffs go for 1/2 of your normal routine on the high strength. This isn't a regression or failure unless you abandon your attempt in full. Just kill the craving with the minimum necessary to just get the job done and only as often as it needs to be. Just pay attention to how often you switch up strengths again is all.

7.) Try pushing how long you go until you between use of the medium strength by about 10-20 minutes when you notice it. Don't consciously go much more than that though.

8.) After you no longer have any stronger rogue cravings at various times of day in-between meals or activity and you have become comfortable using medium strength after those activities instead of high; then consider switching all three strengths down 1 notch. It doesn't matter if this takes weeks or not. Who is counting? Let your body get used to it at it's own pace.

9.) Try to watch your idle time you spend vaping out of boredom or just to do something with your hands. this is a PERFECT time to switch to a low strength and taste test.

10.) Don't fight with yourself. If it's not enjoyable or fulfilling a goal of yours then don't do it! Persistence does help though :thumbs:. Repeat until satisfied / comfortable with your consumption!

Side Notes:

I personally should be vaping 24mg carts @ about 2 a day based on my previous habit. But I'm currently using 24mg total per day across (3) 8mg carts only 3 weeks after picking up vaping. This pattern I outlined above has worked to wean me off the excess nicotine while leaving me free to enjoy both vaping and the nicotine I AM consuming while being less concerned about the health effects.

I'm going to be trying to simplify and clarify this system over the next little while to make it as useful as possible. I'm also trying to dig up more information for nicotine so we can all understand it a bit better.

Final thought: Nicotine it's self isn't nearly as harmful as almost any other component of cigarettes. However, because it acts as a blood vessel constrictor and heart rate increases substantially from it I don't think it's healthy to have excessive amounts of it in my system. I do enjoy my nicotine fixes (which is the point after all) but I find that once you are used to a lower level you get the same enjoyment out of it (down to about 4mg or so after getting used to 8mg so far). Personally I use the 0mg carts as pacifiers just to kill the habit part, while I use the 4mg and 8mg for my craving fixes. It's really nice to get a nicotine buzz on such a low dose again. Brings back childhood memories :D

I welcome all constructive input into these thoughts!

Thanks,
 
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