The Really Big RY4 Roundup (long)
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Hi Bill, thanks again for the treats you sent. That was very nice of you. I hope you had a nice and relaxing Xmas. I've been very busy due to the holidays so this is a little late, sorry. I noticed your A and B picks have really changed this go around. All of your higher picks are my go to juices so it was kinda funny to read. The only juice that I thought would have gotten a higher grade is the vapers knoll. Their ry4 has really gotten good with age. I hope you have a great New Years and I can't wait to read more of your reviews this coming year.
For everyone who has asked over the past couple years on the thread for help in finding an RY4 that is similar to or at least approximates the now-defunct and long-lamented BackwoodsBrew RY4, Ive come up with a DIY recipe worth trying.
As far as I can tell, BWB RY4 used a synthetic tobacco, and its flavor profile emphasized vanilla more than caramel. The secret to BWB RY4, however---the mystery ingredient that made it so special---was pine flavor. I dont know what source Don used for the pine flavor in his BWB RY4 recipe, and what I will suggest here is almost certainly not it. In my years of DIYing, however, Ive come across only a couple pine flavorings. The one I chose for my Faux BWB RY4 recipe is Pine Nut from Flavors Express, a line of Chinese flavoring concentrates that are available from EcigExpress.
I still have 10ml of authentic BWB RY4 in my stash, and I developed the Faux BWB RY4 recipe doing a head-to-head comparison with the real thing. My DIY recipe isnt perfect, of course, but its definitely in the ball park, and close enough for horseshoes.
Below is my DIY recipe for Faux BWB RY4:
All the component flavorings are available from EcigExpress. The three TFA flavorings are also available elsewhere, but the FlavorsExpress Pine Nut can be gotten only from EcigExpress.
Try it and see what you think.
As far as I can tell, BWB RY4 used a synthetic tobacco, and its flavor profile emphasized vanilla more than caramel. The secret to BWB RY4, however---the mystery ingredient that made it so special---was pine flavor. I dont know what source Don used for the pine flavor in his BWB RY4 recipe, and what I will suggest here is almost certainly not it. In my years of DIYing, however, Ive come across only a couple pine flavorings. The one I chose for my Faux BWB RY4 recipe is Pine Nut from Flavors Express, a line of Chinese flavoring concentrates that are available from EcigExpress.
I still have 10ml of authentic BWB RY4 in my stash, and I developed the Faux BWB RY4 recipe doing a head-to-head comparison with the real thing. My DIY recipe isnt perfect, of course, but its definitely in the ball park, and close enough for horseshoes.
Below is my DIY recipe for Faux BWB RY4:
10-12% RY4 Double flavoring (TFA)
2-3% Pine Nut (Flavors Express)
1% Vanilla Bourbon (TFA)
1% Acetyl Pyrazine (TFA)
A week or two of steeping after mixing the DIY juice will allow the flavorings to meld and more closely approximate BWB RY4. Even fresh, however, it tastes pretty close.2-3% Pine Nut (Flavors Express)
1% Vanilla Bourbon (TFA)
1% Acetyl Pyrazine (TFA)
All the component flavorings are available from EcigExpress. The three TFA flavorings are also available elsewhere, but the FlavorsExpress Pine Nut can be gotten only from EcigExpress.
Try it and see what you think.
Bill, can you objectively give Billwoods Brew RY4 a grade? Would it be in the B+ to A range?
dude,
That's a tough one. First off, BWB RY4 itself is/was one of those unique but odd juices that nearly defied grading, since it was so, well, unusual. Almost downright weird. Sort of like a person who isn't good-looking but is nonetheless compelling and attractive. In addition, my own bottle of 'Billwoods Brew RY4' hasn't had sufficient steeping time yet. I regard it as "still cooking."
Any "objectivity" I can muster in grading RY4s comes from my ability to accurately compare a given RY4 to many other RY4s. BWB RY4 and Billwoods RY4 don't lend themselves to any easy comparisons (except to each other). The only other RY4 I've ever vaped that had a pine-flavor component was the 2010 Janty RY4 that KentC sent me, but the flavor there was pine seed rather than pine needle, and it too is long gone from the marketplace.
Right now, I guess I'd give Billwoods Brew RY4 a B. Ask me again in a week or two.
specs: The 50ml bottle of Pirate RY4 I purchased from FastTech contains an amber-colored transparent liquid at 10mg nic. (I also purchased a 50ml bottle of zero nic Pirate RY4, which is almost clear and colorless.) FastTech titled the juice Ruyan 4, but the labels of both my bottles read Pirate RY4. FastTechs product page claimed a 70PG/30VG base blend, but, given the thick viscosity of the liquid and copious vapor production, Im inclined to think thats incorrect. This juice is either all or mostly VG. The liquid has a lightly sweet scent that is pleasing. Testing was done first by dripping into a JoyeTech 1.5 ohm LR510 atomizer powered by a Vision Spinner clone battery set to 3.8 volts, then using a 1.5 ohm SmokTech dual-coil 510XL carto powered by a Buzz Pro set to 4.7 volts.
Ive vaped and reviewed Classic RY4s, both retail and DIY, from most of the major Chinese manufacturers---Dekang, Hangsen, JoyeTech, Keemer---both under their own brand names and as re-labeled RY4s sold by many American vendors. As conspicuous examples, Jantys RY4s, Smokeless Image Volt RY4, and Bloog RY4 are all made in China, although I dont know for sure which major Chinese eliquid manufacturer supplies each retailer.
Ive also vaped and reviewed numerous other Chinese-made Classic RY4s---Health Cabin, Greenhouse One, and various no-name brands. Since Pirate RY4 was so cheap from FastTech---only $3.65 shipped for a 50ml bottle---I figured it was worth a shot.
Classic (Chinese) RY4s are more similar than different. Distinctions exist, of course, and some are tastier than others, but as a group, they all fall within a fairly narrow range in terms of flavor profiles. All Classic RY4s are light in color and have a bright and crisp taste when vaped, with more emphasis on the treble than the bass. Designed to be generally pleasing to most people (i.e., inoffensive), their main flavor components are synthetic tobacco, caramel, and vanilla. Thats true of all RY4s, both Classic and Custom. unlike Custom RY4s, however, where each of the three major flavor components can be identified as individual flavors, Classics are very well-blended, offering a single unified flavor experience that we recognize as RY4. That holds true for Pirate RY4.
So, how good is this off-brand Chinese retail RY4 that costs a mere 7¢/ml? Id say pretty good. I mean, its a Classic RY4 thats not too sweet (which is a plus; Hangsen RY4 sometimes goes over the line for me). As for flavor, let me put it this way: About three out of four tokes of Pirate RY4 are quite tasty to my palate. One toke out of four makes my brain say, Wait, this flavor profile is a little odd. Please understand, even that last toke out of four isnt bad. Its just ever-so-slightly odd, as if the flavors had combined a little differently than with Dekang, Hangsen, or JoyeTech RY4s. The other three tokes are delicious, while the fourth is just OK. On balance, I could be quite happy vaping Pirate RY4 if I had no others. After awhile, I wouldnt even notice that fourth slightly eccentric toke. In addition---and this is important---I could vape a lot of this juice without tiring of it. I cant say the same about a fair number of other RY4s.
What impresses me most about Pirate RY4 is its performance. Vapor production is stellar---full and thick---with great mouthfeel, and my particular bottle of Pirate RY4 has more kick than Id expect for being only 10mg nic. The throat hit is definitely part of the enjoyment.
All in all, Pirate RY4 is a good Classic Chinese RY4---not quite superb---but a nice vape and a definite bargain. Hard to go wrong with this one.
Pirate RY4 grade: B
link to purchase: Pirate RY4 (from FastTech)
[Note: FastTech doesnt list Pirate RY4 by brand, but simply as Eliquid for Electronic Cigarette, and each bottle size and nic strength has its own product page. The link here is to a FastTech search for Ruyan 4 Eliquids. The only two brands are Hangsen and Pirate, so it's any juice on that page that doesn't say Hangsen.]
Ive vaped and reviewed Classic RY4s, both retail and DIY, from most of the major Chinese manufacturers---Dekang, Hangsen, JoyeTech, Keemer---both under their own brand names and as re-labeled RY4s sold by many American vendors. As conspicuous examples, Jantys RY4s, Smokeless Image Volt RY4, and Bloog RY4 are all made in China, although I dont know for sure which major Chinese eliquid manufacturer supplies each retailer.
Ive also vaped and reviewed numerous other Chinese-made Classic RY4s---Health Cabin, Greenhouse One, and various no-name brands. Since Pirate RY4 was so cheap from FastTech---only $3.65 shipped for a 50ml bottle---I figured it was worth a shot.
Classic (Chinese) RY4s are more similar than different. Distinctions exist, of course, and some are tastier than others, but as a group, they all fall within a fairly narrow range in terms of flavor profiles. All Classic RY4s are light in color and have a bright and crisp taste when vaped, with more emphasis on the treble than the bass. Designed to be generally pleasing to most people (i.e., inoffensive), their main flavor components are synthetic tobacco, caramel, and vanilla. Thats true of all RY4s, both Classic and Custom. unlike Custom RY4s, however, where each of the three major flavor components can be identified as individual flavors, Classics are very well-blended, offering a single unified flavor experience that we recognize as RY4. That holds true for Pirate RY4.
So, how good is this off-brand Chinese retail RY4 that costs a mere 7¢/ml? Id say pretty good. I mean, its a Classic RY4 thats not too sweet (which is a plus; Hangsen RY4 sometimes goes over the line for me). As for flavor, let me put it this way: About three out of four tokes of Pirate RY4 are quite tasty to my palate. One toke out of four makes my brain say, Wait, this flavor profile is a little odd. Please understand, even that last toke out of four isnt bad. Its just ever-so-slightly odd, as if the flavors had combined a little differently than with Dekang, Hangsen, or JoyeTech RY4s. The other three tokes are delicious, while the fourth is just OK. On balance, I could be quite happy vaping Pirate RY4 if I had no others. After awhile, I wouldnt even notice that fourth slightly eccentric toke. In addition---and this is important---I could vape a lot of this juice without tiring of it. I cant say the same about a fair number of other RY4s.
What impresses me most about Pirate RY4 is its performance. Vapor production is stellar---full and thick---with great mouthfeel, and my particular bottle of Pirate RY4 has more kick than Id expect for being only 10mg nic. The throat hit is definitely part of the enjoyment.
All in all, Pirate RY4 is a good Classic Chinese RY4---not quite superb---but a nice vape and a definite bargain. Hard to go wrong with this one.
Pirate RY4 grade: B
link to purchase: Pirate RY4 (from FastTech)
[Note: FastTech doesnt list Pirate RY4 by brand, but simply as Eliquid for Electronic Cigarette, and each bottle size and nic strength has its own product page. The link here is to a FastTech search for Ruyan 4 Eliquids. The only two brands are Hangsen and Pirate, so it's any juice on that page that doesn't say Hangsen.]
came across this RY4 in a pound shop, first time I've seen full ingredients on label,
vanillin
dimethyl
pyrazine
acetyl pyridine
furanone
cyclopenten
plus p/g v/g nic "IS IT SAFE TO VAPE"
vanillin
dimethyl
pyrazine
acetyl pyridine
furanone
cyclopenten
plus p/g v/g nic "IS IT SAFE TO VAPE"
I've been vaping Pirate RY4 for the past couple days off-and-on, and I've really warmed to it.
Pirate RY4 is impressing me as the brightest, most sparkly, almost "effervescent" Classic RY4 in my stable. It's brighter than Dekang, Hangsen, or Joyetech by a considerable margin, and yet just as flavorful. Whether it's me or the juice (most likely it's me, although I suppose just having opened the bottle recently could have allowed some steeping transformation through oxygenation), the caramel element seems to have taken hold and pushed the flavor profile in a direction I really like. I wouldn't call Pirate RY4 "caramel-rich," since it's clearly a Classic RY4 and has the characteristic unified, well-blended, balanced taste of Chinese RY4s, but the flavor profile is making me very happy.
What I wrote in my review about the "fourth toke" being slightly odd has faded away entirely. I'm not sure what that says about my brain, but it's quite pleasing. As a result, I'm upping my grade for Pirate RY4 from a B to an A-. Pretty darn good for an off-brand Chinese RY4. Go figure.
Pirate RY4 is impressing me as the brightest, most sparkly, almost "effervescent" Classic RY4 in my stable. It's brighter than Dekang, Hangsen, or Joyetech by a considerable margin, and yet just as flavorful. Whether it's me or the juice (most likely it's me, although I suppose just having opened the bottle recently could have allowed some steeping transformation through oxygenation), the caramel element seems to have taken hold and pushed the flavor profile in a direction I really like. I wouldn't call Pirate RY4 "caramel-rich," since it's clearly a Classic RY4 and has the characteristic unified, well-blended, balanced taste of Chinese RY4s, but the flavor profile is making me very happy.
What I wrote in my review about the "fourth toke" being slightly odd has faded away entirely. I'm not sure what that says about my brain, but it's quite pleasing. As a result, I'm upping my grade for Pirate RY4 from a B to an A-. Pretty darn good for an off-brand Chinese RY4. Go figure.
I found this and got some coming to see if it has some sage lol....
Flavoring :: Tobacco :: Tribeca Concentrated Flavoring
and thanks for the heads up Bill on the RY4 from FT don't know how that slipped past me im on Ft everyday ....
Flavoring :: Tobacco :: Tribeca Concentrated Flavoring
and thanks for the heads up Bill on the RY4 from FT don't know how that slipped past me im on Ft everyday ....
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passer,
Interesting. FlavorEnvy apparently makes their own proprietary flavor concentrates, so the Tribeca is obviously a clone flavoring . I'm curious enough to see how close it is to Halo's original that I ordered a bottle, along with their RY4.
Thanks for the heads-up!
I searched this thread and could find no reference to Space Jam Eclipse. It is described as a Cavendish tobacco with vanilla. It doesn't mention caramel so I'm not sure if it considered an RY4.
I have only been vaping for 1 month and it the only juice I have tried but I am trying to find something similar but cheaper.
I have only been vaping for 1 month and it the only juice I have tried but I am trying to find something similar but cheaper.
I'll go out on a limb and speculate that the Tribeca DIY flavoring won't be very close to Halo's retail Tribeca. Just a hunch.
I was kinda worried at first but they finally decided to send me a tracking number, I pretty much got all the tobaccos since the cost was cheap, I was thinking clone also and the Dekang and RY4 just had to be tried 
.. Its kinda odd they have RY4 and Tribeca unless its just a custom RY4 and not a clone. These vendors crack me up when they don't have descriptions.
.. Its kinda odd they have RY4 and Tribeca unless its just a custom RY4 and not a clone. These vendors crack me up when they don't have descriptions.
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Well to me and some could argue the fact but RY4 is caramel, vanilla, tobacco ( with some additives)...that's it....
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I favor new Custom RY4s coming to the market. Perhaps it will be a good one.
Rocketman,
Eclipse by Space Jam is a synthetic Cavendish pipe tobacco flavor mixed with vanilla custard. It may be yummy, but it's definitely not an RY4.
Specs: The 10ml bottles of RY4 and RY4 Extra I purchased from SmugJuice contain caramel-colored transparent liquids at 12mg nic content that use naturally-extracted tobacco flavoring (from macerations) in an undisclosed base blend. From the viscosity of the liquids, I'd guess that the blends are more VG than PG. Since these are made-to-order NET-based RY4s, I let them steep with the bottle caps removed for three days. They might benefit from longer steeping. I couldn’t detect any scent. Testing was done by dripping into a JoyeTech LR510 1.5 ohm atomizer powered by a Vision Spinner clone set to 4.1 volts (11 watts).
Compared to other NET-based Custom RY4s---including MOV FFV RY4, QnJ ouR whY q4ttro, and GeJ GJ4, all of which are highly-rated---SmugJuice RY4 doesn't fare so well. To me, it’s not nearly as good as any of the other three. I’m not entirely sure where the problem is---whether in the tobacco extract, the caramel and vanilla flavorings, the recipe proportions, or the interaction of the flavoring ingredients. Whatever the cause, the end result is somewhat more a miss than a hit, at least to my palate. I think it might be the caramel and vanilla that don’t play together particularly well. This happens with RY4s. We can’t just take any old tobacco, caramel, and vanilla flavorings and get a great RY4 by combining them, since wide variations exist in the taste of different flavorings within each category. Obviously, different tobaccos vary in flavor, but vanilla is not just vanilla, and caramel is not just caramel. The particular concentrates used, while possibly fine on their own, have to be sympathetic to each other. Even in a Custom RY4, where each flavoring element can be perceived separately, they must play well together in ensemble. In SmugJuice RY4, the three prime flavorings don't combine into something delicious. Instead, their combination is slightly unsatisfying. If I had not vaped other NET-based retail Custom RY4s, SmugJuice RY4 would be OK, but only so-so, and certainly nowhere close to superb. As it is, when compared to other very good NET-based RY4s, the juice falls decidedly short of the competition.
I hope I’m not premature or unfair in that judgment. Perhaps steeping will improve this RY4. Relatively fresh, however, I wouldn’t vape it and can’t recommend it, since I have so many NET-based Custom RY4s---both retail and DIY---that are far superior.
SmugJuice RY4 Extra is the same as their RY4, but with extra natural tobacco extract to boost the tobacco element in the flavor profile, and that makes a big difference. The stronger tobacco in the mix improves the juice significantly over SmugJuice RY4. This makes me think that the tobacco---which is relatively neutral, although easily recognizable as a macerated natural extract---is the tastiest of the three flavorings when combined in a single juice, and supports the idea that the caramel and vanilla used may not harmonize as well as in other, better RY4s.
SmugJuice RY4 Extra is actually quite good and will probably improve from long-term steeping over time, since in almost all NET-based liquids, steeping time brings out more of the tobacco flavor. Here that would be an improvement and something to look forward to, versus many other NET-based retail Custom RY4s, where I prefer the juices fresh rather than well-steeped, because the tobacco eventually overwhelms the caramel and vanilla. This is particularly true of VapeRite VR4, GeJ GJ4, and QnJ ouR whY q4ttro, all of which are terrific fresh but less so as they age. In RY4 Extra, elevating the tobacco over the caramel and vanilla is a good thing to be desired.
Because the flavor and balance of SmugJuice RY4 Extra are so much better, I can recommend it without reservation. SmugJuice’s “regular” RY4, however, does not pass muster for me, at least not when fresh. YMMV, of course. I will revisit SmugJuice RY4 in a couple months and amend my grade if it has improved, which it might. For now, though, it is what it is---not ready for prime time.
SmugJuice RY4 grade: C-
SmugJuice RY4 Extra grade: B+
Links to purchase:
RY4 from SmugJuice
RY4 Extra from SmugJuice
Compared to other NET-based Custom RY4s---including MOV FFV RY4, QnJ ouR whY q4ttro, and GeJ GJ4, all of which are highly-rated---SmugJuice RY4 doesn't fare so well. To me, it’s not nearly as good as any of the other three. I’m not entirely sure where the problem is---whether in the tobacco extract, the caramel and vanilla flavorings, the recipe proportions, or the interaction of the flavoring ingredients. Whatever the cause, the end result is somewhat more a miss than a hit, at least to my palate. I think it might be the caramel and vanilla that don’t play together particularly well. This happens with RY4s. We can’t just take any old tobacco, caramel, and vanilla flavorings and get a great RY4 by combining them, since wide variations exist in the taste of different flavorings within each category. Obviously, different tobaccos vary in flavor, but vanilla is not just vanilla, and caramel is not just caramel. The particular concentrates used, while possibly fine on their own, have to be sympathetic to each other. Even in a Custom RY4, where each flavoring element can be perceived separately, they must play well together in ensemble. In SmugJuice RY4, the three prime flavorings don't combine into something delicious. Instead, their combination is slightly unsatisfying. If I had not vaped other NET-based retail Custom RY4s, SmugJuice RY4 would be OK, but only so-so, and certainly nowhere close to superb. As it is, when compared to other very good NET-based RY4s, the juice falls decidedly short of the competition.
I hope I’m not premature or unfair in that judgment. Perhaps steeping will improve this RY4. Relatively fresh, however, I wouldn’t vape it and can’t recommend it, since I have so many NET-based Custom RY4s---both retail and DIY---that are far superior.
SmugJuice RY4 Extra is the same as their RY4, but with extra natural tobacco extract to boost the tobacco element in the flavor profile, and that makes a big difference. The stronger tobacco in the mix improves the juice significantly over SmugJuice RY4. This makes me think that the tobacco---which is relatively neutral, although easily recognizable as a macerated natural extract---is the tastiest of the three flavorings when combined in a single juice, and supports the idea that the caramel and vanilla used may not harmonize as well as in other, better RY4s.
SmugJuice RY4 Extra is actually quite good and will probably improve from long-term steeping over time, since in almost all NET-based liquids, steeping time brings out more of the tobacco flavor. Here that would be an improvement and something to look forward to, versus many other NET-based retail Custom RY4s, where I prefer the juices fresh rather than well-steeped, because the tobacco eventually overwhelms the caramel and vanilla. This is particularly true of VapeRite VR4, GeJ GJ4, and QnJ ouR whY q4ttro, all of which are terrific fresh but less so as they age. In RY4 Extra, elevating the tobacco over the caramel and vanilla is a good thing to be desired.
Because the flavor and balance of SmugJuice RY4 Extra are so much better, I can recommend it without reservation. SmugJuice’s “regular” RY4, however, does not pass muster for me, at least not when fresh. YMMV, of course. I will revisit SmugJuice RY4 in a couple months and amend my grade if it has improved, which it might. For now, though, it is what it is---not ready for prime time.
SmugJuice RY4 grade: C-
SmugJuice RY4 Extra grade: B+
Links to purchase:
RY4 from SmugJuice
RY4 Extra from SmugJuice
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Mine are 'Out for Delivery.' ...any clue as to mixing percentages on these?
I did about 6% just to shake and vape, it made need around 10% for steep time...
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