The Really Big RY4 Roundup (long)

[billherbst]

I didn't see it on the list, and it's entirly possible that this is listed under another vendor, but has madvapes Hangsen RY4 been reviewed on this thread? It's the third RY4 I've tried (the first being Tribeca, and second being M+P RY4v2), and it has a flavor that reminds me of Tribeca quite a bit. Unfortunatly the only one I've really liked, and I mean really like I vape this stuff every day, is M+P RY4v2. I keep wanting MV's Hangsen RY4 to be better, but I suppose at the price I paid (less than 4$ for 10ml) I shouldn't expect much. Looking at what I've tried so far, might someone have a suggestion for a better juice to check out?

TommyG,

Hangsen RY4, along with Hangsen RY1-3, were reviewed here in post #755. Those were purchased from Liberty-Flights, so they may or may be the same recipe as the Hangsen RY4 now being sold by Madvapes in its Custom China E-Liquids page. I simply have no way of knowing if they're identical or not.

As for suggestions, you've already picked one I like a lot---Mom&Pop RY4v2. I don't know your palate, however, so making informed recommendations is darn near impossible. These days, especially after comparison-vaping many RY4s over the past four months, I've come to feel that Janty RY4 in either the Classic or Elixir lines, stands out. Despite the hefty price tag, Janty RY4 remains the bonafide original, first-ever RY4, and it's still the reference standard against which all other RY4s can be compared.

 

[billherbst]

I really like Sweet-Vapes tobaccos, but there is something in ALL their juices (I suspect a sweetener) which doesn't agree with me.

Eleanor,

Yeah, that's a drag, but it does happen. I feel the same way about Halo juices---good flavoring ingredients and mixes, but I always react to Halo's signature base with a scrunched-up unhappy face.

V4L's RY4 is a Chinese-made juice, albeit to V4L's own proprietary recipe.

I think it's a fairly safe bet to assume that if a vendor doesn't specify up front (and usually in bold letters) that their juices are made in the USA, they were probably manufactured in China. And, as you point out, some vendors work with Chinese eliquid producers to supply them with juices that are custom-formulated to the vendor's specs.

I don't have a bias against Chinese juices. I don't care where a juice was made. My only negative biases are aimed at juices that are just plain lousy (which is sometimes the same as saying juices I don't like, but not always). LOL.

 

[sandybeach]

AltCig.com is a relatively new juice-only vendor (not to be confused with AltCigs.com, an older vendor now out of business). The central banner on the AltCig home page proclaims: “Premium e-liquid proudly made in the USA by award winning flavorists. Taste the difference. Vape happy.”

Though I’m happy with all six juices I bought during AltCig’s Grand Opening sale, I have to admit that I regard their banner copy as nothing more than typical advertising BS. Premium e-liquid? Is that like the FDA designation of super-premium for ice creams with artery-clogging butterfat content? No, it’s just the same hollow appeal to higher quality “upper class” lineage that lots of other juice vendors make. Made in USA is certainly meaningful to many vapers, but I don’t personally find anything inherently better about juices based on country of origin. And finally, award winning flavorists? Awards? From whom? I must have missed the last gala spectacle of the Flavoring Oscars on TV. Hell, I didn’t even know there were awards for flavorists. It’s bad enough that Hollywood sees fit to engage in the annual ritual of self-important posturing with red carpets, tuxedos, designer gowns, and long-winded acceptance speeches, but I suppose it’s inevitable that the vaping industry will succumb to the same narcissistic vanity of awards ceremonies, even if they’re not televised on major network cable and satellite.

If the banner read: “AltCig sells only the very best juices we can make, and we think they’re great!” that would be---to my way of thinking---accurate advertising. On the other hand, phrases such as “premium” and “award winning” are little more than magical invocations of superiority.

Please understand, I have no axe to grind against AltCig. It’s just that they are among many vendors who apparently subscribe to the marketing notion that hype is justified to sell products. I know I’m swimming against the tide here, but that always rubs me the wrong way.

Enough of my ranting about how things are in the real world. What about AltCig RY4?

specs: The 15ml bottle of AltCig RY4 I purchased is a medium-caramel colored transparent liquid made with a 50/50 PG/VG base at 24mg nic strength. This is a custom, made-to-order juice, so I let it steep for two weeks. Tasting was done by loading the juice into a SmokTech 1.7 ohm Resurrector carto vaped from a Hello 016 battery providing 4.0V unloaded (3.5V loaded) for a real power output of 7.4 watts.

AltCig’s description on its RY4 ordering page reads: “Rich caramel, vanilla and tobacco vape with complex undertone notes. An enjoyable, slightly sweet tobacco vape.” How refreshing! A vendor who actually mentions all three core flavor components of RY4s. As for the “complex undertone notes,” I can taste their presence in the enriched flavor profile, but I can’t identify what those extra individual flavors are. I doubt that many RY4 juice makers use only the Big Three. Seems much more likely that they tweak their recipes with other flavorings to produce what they feel is the most pleasing end result. In this case, the tweaking is fairly substantial.

Do I like AltCig RY4? Yes. It’s more custom than classic in flavor profile, but not wildly so. This is not re-inventing the wheel, just an attempt to make it roll better. Please note, however, that to my palate AltCig RY4 is more than just “slightly” sweet. Granted, it’s not candy sweet, but it is nonetheless a strongly caramel juice that leans toward sweet with sufficient richness to nudge it into the Dessert category, where the caramel, vanilla, and additional underlying flavors take precedence over the tobacco. Oh, the tobacco’s there, but the other flavorings set the tone.

Is AltCig RY4 distinctive? To some extent, but not remarkably so. It’s definitely not your typical “generic” RY4, but it’s also not provocative or revolutionary. If this were politics rather than vaping, AltCig RY4 would be liberal or perhaps even progressive, but not radical. The “complex undertone notes” make it different enough to stand out from the herd.

I can easily recommend AltCig RY4. It’s a tasty juice that provides a satisfying vape---even if it’s not “award-winning.” LOL.

Category Groups: Dessert, Caramel Rich

Link: AltCig RY4

I just tried AltCig RY4 for the first time. On first impression, it tastes exactly like Highbrow Vapor RY4. Just my opinion.

 

[TommyG]

So I did some thinking, and went back to check the list for my comparison. I said Madvapes Hangsen RY4 reminded me of Tribeca, and the review called it middle of the road and tribeca A typical. So this was probably a better spot for me to start with RY4 than M+P's v2...sort of giving myself high expectations with a really good distinct RY4 while having no real idea what the basic would taste like.

 

[thehangdude]

RY4 (limit 1 per Customer)

BWB has RY4 available right now. And 15% off everything (automatic at check out).

 

[billherbst]

I just tried AltCig RY4 for the first time. On first impression, it tastes exactly like Highbrow Vapor RY4. Just my opinion.

sandy,

I just comparison-vaped both AltCig and Highbrow RY4s against some more classic Chinese RY4s, and you may have a good case. While I don't find them to be identical, both AltCig and Highbrow are definitely custom RY4s---not classics. Both push the envelope, and they do seem to lean toward a similar flavor profile. Not clones, but certainly cousins.

 

[EleanorR]

Eleanor,

Yeah, that's a drag, but it does happen. I feel the same way about Halo juices---good flavoring ingredients and mixes, but I always react to Halo's signature base with a scrunched-up unhappy face.

In my case, it's more like a "scrunched-up unhappy tummy."

Which is a real shame, because I really really liked the flavor of Sweet-Vapes' juices.

 

[CthulhuSaves]

BWB has RY4 available right now. And 15% off everything (automatic at check out).

Ok, I am officially livid. It's already out of stock, and I very intentionally went to their site several weeks ago and signed up for notification of it becoming available again so I could try it. Checked email just now, including spam folder, and nothing. They didn't send the notification.

(Watch the blood pressure, watch the blood pressure; take your meds...)

EDIT: I see what's happened. They've moved to a new website, and apparently all user data was wiped. You've got to re-register on the new site. However, I now only see a Wish List option, not any sort of restock notification option. Maybe that's part of the Wish List?

 

[bri1270]

I was always partial to Janty's RY4. Too bad they're so expensive.

 

[billherbst]

Ok, I am officially livid. It's already out of stock, and I very intentionally went to their site several weeks ago and signed up for notification of it becoming available again so I could try it. Checked email just now, including spam folder, and nothing. They didn't send the notification.

(Watch the blood pressure, watch the blood pressure; take your meds...)

EDIT: I see what's happened. They've moved to a new website, and apparently all user data was wiped. You've got to re-register on the new site. However, I now only see a Wish List option, not any sort of restock notification option. Maybe that's part of the Wish List?

Cthulhu,

Sorry to read that you got skunked. I was on the new BWB site earlier today trying to decide whether I couldn't live without any more BWB juices (I didn't order anything, as it turns out), and I noticed that there were 39 bottles of BWB RY4 in stock. I have 30mls of that oh-so-popular juice in my stash, which is more than I will ever need actually, but I thought to myself, "39 bottles, eh? Well, those will all be gone in about three hours..." And sure enough, they flew right out the door.

The only solace I can offer is the certainty that you're not alone in being shut out because you blinked.

 

[STILLSMOK9]

TommyG,

Hangsen RY4, along with Hangsen RY1-3, were reviewed here in post #755. Those were purchased from Liberty-Flights, so they may or may be the same recipe as the Hangsen RY4 now being sold by Madvapes in its Custom China E-Liquids page. I simply have no way of knowing if they're identical or not.

As for suggestions, you've already picked one I like a lot---Mom&Pop RY4v2. I don't know your palate, however, so making informed recommendations is darn near impossible. These days, especially after comparison-vaping many RY4s over the past four months, I've come to feel that Janty RY4 in either the Classic or Elixir lines, stands out. Despite the hefty price tag, Janty RY4 remains the bonafide original, first-ever RY4, and it's still the reference standard against which all other RY4s can be compared.

Bill,

I think people need to take caution when ordering Hangsen from Madvapes because I have ordered the premix straight from Hangsen and its just not the same... Not even close... Madvapes is simply getting the flavor from Hangsen and mixing it just like their TopVapor USA stuff! There's something definitely missing with Madvapes version.....

 

[billherbst]

Bill,

I think people need to take caution when ordering Hangsen from Madvapes because I have ordered the premix straight from Hangsen and its just not the same... Not even close... Madvapes is simply getting the flavor from Hangsen and mixing it just like their TopVapor USA stuff! There's something definitely missing with Madvapes version.....

Still,

Madvapes' Custom China E-Liquids section has had a checkered history. When only Dekang liquids were offered, numerous people complained in ECF threads that the liquids were not authentic (i.e., not "real" Dekang, but acquired from some other questionable source). Madvapes' owner made efforts to explain in defense, but I don't know if issues were ever fully clarified or resolved for those who were disappointed with the juices they bought in the Custom China listings.

So, your post raises that shadow again, this time with Hangsen.

By the way, I'm not down on Madvapes and have no axe to grind against them. I mean, c'mon, they are the Home Depot of vaping hardware and modding parts. I've bought tons of stuff from Madvapes, although I'm not a fan of Top Vapor juices. I'm simply reiterating the history I've read here on ECF about the little brouhaha over that specific product page in their overall lineup.

 

[billherbst]

Does steeping improve RY4s? The very simplistic and general answer is (in my opinion): Well, duh! Sure it does.

A truer answer is probably: Maybe. It depends...

Consider soup. Soup isn't just vegetables in broth. Soup is, well, soup. Those vegetables, grains, and meats in a liquid broth undergo a transformation that usually requires cooking. In the vaping world, steeping is the equivalent of cooking, akin to letting grape juice become fine wine by aging in casks. Steeping gives the individual flavor ingredients time to adjust to their new home---to move in and get comfortable in the PG/VG base---and also gives them time to get to know (and hopefully love) the other flavorings in their apartment building.

As a general rule, the overwhelming majority of RY4s benefit from steeping. How much? Well, classic RY4s (meaning from China) tend to improve less with steeping, because the primary ingredients in their simpler flavor profile (tobacco-caramel-vanilla) already love each other before being mixed and are hot to jump in the sack together the minute they arrive in the bottle together. Even so, some steeping is likely to help even classic, straightforward RY4s.

The greatest benefits of steeping, however, are seen in artisan-crafted custom RY4s (mostly made in the U.S. by the individual vendors that sell them). These custom RY4s tend to be more complex and use more flavorings than classic RY4s, and that added complexity requires more “cooking” time to become great “soup.” Custom RY4s are often made-to-order and arrive in the mailbox within two or three days of their born-on dates, so they’re not yet mature. The individual flavors don’t know each other well and need extra time to meld, blend, and make happy-happy together.

Probably the most “famous” example on ECF of custom RY4s that benefit from long steeping times is BackwoodsBrew RY4. Posters often report that BWB RY4 continues to improve in yumminess with each successive month. The more months it steeps, the better it gets. This is not to suggest that one shouldn’t vape BWB RY4 (or any other juice) fresh from the mail, merely that aging the juice helps its flavor profile to mature and emerge fully.

Another case in point is SpringVapor Black Label RY4. I reviewed this decidedly custom and complex RY4 back on January 27th, about six weeks ago. Knowing that Black Label was made-to-order, I’d let it steep a week before doing my review. At the time, I preferred SpringVapor’s other RY4, called Fall Harvest, which is a more classic RY4 and has a simpler flavor profile. I felt then that Black Label’s atypical mix of complex flavors pushed the envelope of an RY4 profile almost too far.

Yesterday, I got out my Black Label RY4 carto and gave it another go. The extra month and a half of steeping improved the juice immensely. Individual flavors had receded as the complex mix moved into union. Was this a different creature that had undergone some magical transformation, like the caterpillar that secretes a chrysalis to morph into a butterfly? Well, no. The “new” Black Label RY4 was still clearly recognizable as an older version of the “young” Black Label, but it was so much better! Deeper, richer, and more satisfying, like a gawky adolescent who had matured into an attractive adult.

The moral of the story is “Give Juice a Chance” (Egad, shades of John Lennon and Yoko Ono interviewed in bed together in 1969!). We should remember to not be too quick to pass harsh judgment on fresh juices. At the very least, we would be well-advised to revisit new juices a month or two down the road, to see what steeping can do to bring out their best.

This applies to all eliquids, of course, but especially to the more complex, multi-flavor tobacco blends, such as custom RY4s.

 

[Katdarling]

Bill,

Stop tasting RY4s and just WRITE! You're not only prolific, entertaining and wise, but humorous beyond beyond!


"If I'm in the middle of an RY4 comparison session (which I do about once a week), where my palate is nicely warmed up but not yet burned out, it doesn't take more than a single toke or two of a particular RY4 for me to immediately get a handle on the flavor profile, mix of ingredients, and whether or not I like it."

a toke? LOL!

"The downside to my having all those RY4s is that I tend not to vape RY4 for pleasure anymore. This thread has pretty much put the kibosh on that. LOL."

Awwwwww, say it isn't so!


I actually DID get in on the RY4 from BWB. And I have to say, I'm not sure why I did. I've tasted it before and could not stand it at all. I have this crazy notion in my head that perhaps what I tasted (a friend's sample) was a 'bad bottle' or something. I don't know, but I chose to dive in yet again. We'll see. I'll prolly not even look at it for a while (=whoknowshowlong).

Thanks again for everything. This is still one of my favorite threads!

 

[revolver]

The moral of the story is “Give Juice a Chance” (Egad, shades of John Lennon and Yoko Ono interviewed in bed together in 1969!). We should remember to not be too quick to pass harsh judgment on fresh juices. At the very least, we would be well-advised to revisit new juices a month or two down the road, to see what steeping can do to bring out their best.

This applies to all eliquids, of course, but especially to the more complex, multi-flavor tobacco blends, such as custom RY4s.

Speaking of which, I was wondering if there was any chance of you trying "The argies' Blends" again (The ones from my friend...); now that -who knows!?- maybe they might have turned and translate into a better vape.

You never know... Maybe... Just maybe... The Steeping Gods might have worked miracles on them by now...

=)

PS: Please Good Bill, give them another shot, and this time try to like them better...



Huuuuuuaaaaah !!!

 

[hildicat]

This is a fascinating read! You are probably asked this often, but I'm hoping you can help me out with a suggestion. I don't have much experience with RY4's but do really like Raf-a-licious. Since it is being discontinued I would like to find something that is similar in all respects. While I'm at it, could you give your recommendation for what you consider the best value, meaning best juice for the cost.

Thanks!

 

[billherbst]

This is a fascinating read! You are probably asked this often, but I'm hoping you can help me out with a suggestion. I don't have much experience with RY4's but do really like Raf-a-licious. Since it is being discontinued I would like to find something that is similar in all respects. Thanks!

hildicat,

I didn't know that Raf-a-licious was being discontinued by AVE. What a shame.

Ah, the profound Zen of vaping: Nothing is permanent on the Wheel of Sangsara. Lousy juices come and go without much notice. No one cared when they were here, and no one cares when they're gone. Terrific juices, however, arrive with anticipation and generate trumpet fanfares. Then they too may vanish, leaving those who loved them shocked and bereft, amidst cries of lamentation and woe-is-us. Goodbye "lost" Dekang RY4. Goodbye BWB Café Mocha. Goodbye NLV VapeTV Bounty Hunter. And now goodbye AVE Raf-a-licious. But then, hello and goodbye is the song of life.

As for recommendations, replacing Raf-a-licious won't be easy. Not that we lack wonderful RY4s, but the maple flavor in Raf-a-licious was rare in RY4s. I'd almost suggest leaving RY4 Land entirely and trying some Vermillion River Kentucky Maple as a reasonable substitute. Or perhaps DIY using Perfumer's Apprentice RY4 Double flavoring mixed with a little maple flavor concentrate.

Another possibility to replace Raf-a-licious might be vendors such as Mom&PopVaporShop or ECBlend. Both those American vendors have value pricing on custom-made juices. Both offer multiple versions of custom RY4s. Both have a sizable fan base on ECF. I'm pretty sure that either vendor (and others as well) would be happy to customize an RY4 for you with added maple flavoring. Tell them what you want, and they'll do their best to try to please.

While I'm at it, could you give your recommendation for what you consider the best value, meaning best juice for the cost. Thanks!

Sorry, but I really can't. The issue of value (cost versus satisfaction) is far too complicated to boil down to a simple recommendation. Too many variables are involved, primary among them being the extreme subjectivity of taste. One person's best-bang-for-the-buck favorite bargain valhalla juice is another person's toxic sludge pond scum waste of money. LOL.

 

[billherbst]

Katdarling,

Yes, the universal term for "inhaling vapor" is still pretty much up for grabs. So far, the lexicon includes draw, pull, drag, hit, and toot (thanks to Grimm Green), among others. My use of "toke" harkens back in my own life to the halcyon days of my youth, when ......... was a social sacrament.

 

[Bullmastiffguy]

One RY4 that's good for you may not be good for someone else, with so many out there to try, I am going to try to DIY and mix my own to how I like it best. Trial and error will I hope get me back to my first RY4 high. Just waiting for my Bavarian creme to get here and away I go.

 

[passerbyeus]

So I think I found another Ry4 to try... Mount Baker Vapor RY4 E Juice, 15ml $4.99 + 1.95 shipped lots of options... great deal, here is one review: Different from the other RY4's ive tried. This is more real tobacco esque then others - though I havent tried that many other ry4s yet. It has a slight liquorice taste to it that even though i hate liqourice it seems right. The tobacco flavor is rich and sweet - raisiny like a bag of moist pipe tobacco. The throat hit is a little tamer than the virginia fire cut, but the flavor and vapor production are stellar!