The Really Big RY4 Roundup (long)

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midficollege

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Initial thoughts on the Zeus- mixed.

I like the tobacco, and the caramel is also well chosen . I despise the vanilla that they chose, though. Seems to be the same flavoring as the vaporgod, which has an odd, cooling, nearly menthol note on the aftertaste that is just weird and off putting for me.

Luckily, it's only a tiny part of the flavor profile, and may well dissipate somewhat with steeping.

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billherbst

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billherbst

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Bill, again on the topic of steeping, I would be interested in the differences you observe steeped vs unsteeped in diy from ingredients vs diy from premixed flavorings.

No clear cosmic laws have emerged for me concerning those distinctions. Oh, I could make up a response that would sound very authoritative and expert, but it would be fictional. The truth is that I can't keep all the data balls juggling in the air well enough to know. In other words, I think steeping changes juices, but as to the finer distinction of separate ingredient diy versus pre-mix diy, I haven't paid much attention to that or amassed a good enough database of carefully logged experience to offer any dependable wisdom.

What do you think?
 
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midficollege

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No clear cosmic laws have emerged for me concerning those distinctions. Oh, I could make up a response that would sound very authoritative and expert, but it would be fictional. The truth is that I can't keep all the data balls juggling in the air well enough to know. In other words, I think steeping changes juices, but as to the finer distinction of separate ingredient diy versus pre-mix diy, I haven't paid much attention to that or amassed a good enough database of carefully logged experience to offer any dependable wisdom.

What do you think?

I haven't honestly done any DIY, so I have no real opinion from experience. My SWAG would be that propylene glycol should mix with propylene glycol pretty rapidly, regardless of what may be dissolved in it, or mixed in it, so the flavoring steeping (as long as the flavoring is dissolved in propylene glycol should be mostly sufficient with some manual mixing), but I was curious about the real-world experience.

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billherbst

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I haven't honestly done any DIY, so I have no real opinion from experience. My SWAG would be that propylene glycol should mix with propylene glycol pretty rapidly, regardless of what may be dissolved in it, or mixed in it, so the flavoring steeping (as long as the flavoring is dissolved in propylene glycol should be mostly sufficient with some manual mixing), but I was curious about the real-world experience.

I think the most important improvement in skills/intuition I've made in DIY is in percentages of flavoring. Use too little flavoring, and the resulting juice tastes lousy (lack of flavor). Use too much flavor, and the resulting juice tastes lousy (muddied flavors that lose all their tasty goodness).

In all DIY juice-making, but especially when using single flavorings (such as the pre-mixed RY4 concentrates) mixing percentages are all over the map. Some flavorings yield their best taste at 3-5% (super-concentrates) Use much more than that, and you start to get flavor mud. Other concentrates need 15-20% in order to sizzle and taste great. For instance, Donley at Want2Vape designs his flavor concentrates to be used at 20% (although I find 15% to work better for me).

I'm now getting pretty good at recognizing both error conditions so I can correct them by adding more flavoring or more nic base, depending on the direction of the error (too much or too little flavoring). Some of my improvement comes from simple accumulated experience, but much has to do with increased palate sensitivity (like a mechanic having an accurate "feel" for how much torque to apply with a wrench to a certain nut and bolt).

When I got my bottle of Hangsen RY4 flavoring more than a year ago, I made my first batch using 20% flavoring, which was way too much and killed the juice. I didn't realize at the time that the error was mine. I just thought the flavoring was lousy. In the new batch of Hangsen RY4 I made yesterday (from the same bottle of concentrate), I used 5% and taste-tested, then corrected to 7%, and the flavor bloomed beautifully. Of course, even the perfect mix ratio won't help a flavoring you just don't like. I'm just talking about maximizing a given flavoring's innate potential to produce a juice that's full of that particular flavor or combination of flavors.

This all becomes much more complicated when making a DIY juice with multiple flavorings. That's a whole different ball game.
 

Jim Bob

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Jim, the last bottle of Tribeca I purchased did not have that Halo "purity" base that was off putting "hospital disinfectant, bug spray" ish. Roxette made the same comment a while back in the thread as well. Halo must have adjusted their base is all I can figure. My last bottle was purchased last month and did not require steeping. My first bottle obtained in a sample pack back in May was just plain awful right out the mailbox and was terrific in September. Tribeca is now one of my favorite RY4's and a week of steeping is plenty now.

Thank you On Target! i'm happy to know they have changed things and my "buds" are not on the blink!
 
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ToweKnee

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Any ideas or advice in the blending of want2vapes ry4 percentages? I am gunna mix my first batch today in a 70% VG blend

I always start around 5% and work up. Its always easier to add than to thin. Also let it sit at least 2 weeks before making changes. A lot of factors like Bill has stated change the flavor profile. Heavy VG will naturally sweeten up your mix and can really change a flavor. Also the higher nic strength will matter as well as the nic itself.
 

billherbst

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Any ideas or advice in the blending of want2vapes ry4 percentages? I am gunna mix my first batch today in a 70% VG blend

The XtremeVaping product description for W2V flavorings says to mix at the "recommended 20%." Personally, I think that's higher than necessary for a wonderful RY4 from that flavoring. I've been using 10-15% with the W2V RY4 flavoring with great success.

ToweKnee's advice is sound, at least the "start with 5%" part. Personally, I find the rest of his advice---"wait two weeks before making changes"---just downright impossible to pull off. Not that waiting two weeks wouldn't be wise---I'm sure it is, given the way steeping alters flavors---I just can't do it. I'm too impatient.
 

ToweKnee

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The XtremeVaping product description for W2V flavorings says to mix at the "recommended 20%." Personally, I think that's higher than necessary for a wonderful RY4 from that flavoring. I've been using 10-15% with the W2V RY4 flavoring with great success.

ToweKnee's advice is sound, at least the "start with 5%" part. Personally, I find the rest of his advice---"wait two weeks before making changes"---just downright impossible to pull off. Not that waiting two weeks wouldn't be wise---I'm sure it is, given the way steeping alters flavors---I just can't do it. I'm too impatient.


The trick is to mix ahead of time and have flavor on deck to be ready like clock work. Must be from working in corrections but DIY I always have something to vape and dont get too tempted on vaping new mixes. I do vape a new mix to see where the flavors are at and note it. That way I know how the flavors develop from steeping.
 

midficollege

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Bill-

Now that I'm back at a computer with a keyboard, let me see if I can't explain better what I was guessing at.

"Steeping" has to do with the mixing of the flavors with one another and becoming homogeneous in a propylene glycol (or vegetable glycerin) solution.

In a premixed flavor batch with the flavorings already fully in solution, it should be easily miscible with a PG base/PG nicotine without steeping time needed. The steeping would have been done by the "100%" PG solution, right?

I have to wonder if "Steeping" came about when people were mixing PG-based flavors into VG bases or mixtures of the two. Or from people using other-alcohol extracted flavorings or menthol that needed to be dissolved further into the mix as a whole.

That's a major aside, though, from the main focus of the thread. I'm pretty sure that when (not if) I get into the DIY game, I'll be working with pure PG, since it's easier, doesn't bother me, carries flavor better, and wicks better.
 

billherbst

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midfi,

I'm not trained in (and don't pretend to understand) the chemistry of flavors. I don't know if "mixing into homogeneity" is the same thing as the flavors "blooming" into fullness. I'd think that if there are people who know that on ECF, they'd hang out in the whereabouts of the DIY forum. I'm pretty sure that no denizen of the RY4 thread has any kind of authoritative expertise in these areas. Well, I don't, anyway.

I lean toward the assumption that some (much?) of what comes to be accepted by posting consensus as "truth" on ECF concerning the more technical aspects of vaping is probably not strictly true. But that obfuscation does seem to come with the territory of human social process.

If you continue to delve into these mysteries, please share whatever you learn with us, insofar as you can.
 

billherbst

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specs: The 10ml bottle of Hooligan I purchased from GoodLifeVapor contains medium-amber-colored liquid at 24mg nic concentration in a 50/50 pg/vg base blend. I steeped the juice for 10 days before sampling. Testing was done by dripping into a 1.7 ohm Joye LR306 atty powered by a ProVari set to 3.8 volts, providing 8.5 watts.

GoodLifeVapor is a relatively new juice-only vendor with a limited line of custom, made-to-order juices (twelve of them, to be exact). I ordered three of their juices: Hooligan, GoodLife’s idiosyncratic take on a sweet, tobacco-rich custom RY4; Monte Cristo, their slightly citrusy pipe blend; and Capone, a sweetened cigar vape. Good Life included a freebie with my order---a 10ml bottle of a juice called Sesame Sweetbread, which is not currently offered on their web site. Interestingly, googling “Good Life Vapor Sesame Sweetbread” produced not a single hit. Ah, a mystery juice! Cool!

When I got ready to write this review, I decided to try each of the four juices one after another, to gain perspective on possible shared characteristics among this vendor’s retail liquids. All four struck me immediately upon first vape as high-quality, carefully-made eliquids created by a juice-maker with a very sophisticated palate. These are definitely not your grandfather’s Oldsmobile, or anything else implying off-the-shelf, ready-made, or middle-of-the-road. In this, they reminded me of my first experience with HighbrowVapor juices.

I need to admit that the juice-maker’s palate and mine aren’t naturally alike. We don’t share predominantly similar flavor orientations. At first, I found all four juices slightly disorienting rather than comfortably familiar. They made my brain stretch, forcing me to undertake a learning curve that required some effort and time to reach appreciation.

For instance, all four juices are sweet, but in a distinctively unusual way, where the sweetness sort of wraps around the core flavorings (which are more savory than sweet). As a result, the sweetness carries the flavors rather than infusing with them. Very unique, and all four juices share this quality of wrap-around sweetness. Anyone who truly doesn’t like sweet eliquids can stop reading right now, for these juices are definitely not for them.

Monte Cristo---a rich pipe tobacco blend with subtle fruitiness---called up Gandalf in my associative neural net, although Monte Cristo is simpler and doesn’t contain so many different fruit tones. Sesame Sweetbread is another sweet vape where the central sesame element is surprisingly delicious. The contrast of sweet and savory works especially well in Sesame Sweetbread. Capone is the least unusual of the four, a good, basic cigar vape, but still with that sweet envelope. And then there’s Hooligan, the protagonist of this review.

Hooligan is an extremely custom RY4 that essentially thumbs its nose at anything resembling a typical RY4 flavor profile. I’m not privy to what the basic ingredients are; for all I know, they may be tobacco, caramel, and vanilla. But the end result doesn’t taste like tobacco, caramel, and vanilla. Hooligan has the aura of RY4 rather than any obvious sense of RY4 flavors. I’m not certain, but I think I pick up some nuttiness in the mix.

My first toke of Hooligan produced a puzzled reaction of, “What the hell is this?” Having vaped it for half an hour now, I still don’t know quite what it is, but I like it a lot. At center-stage, Hooligan has a pleasing tobacco flavor with great bite, surrounded by a swirl of other indecipherable flavors, as well as that unique wrap-around sweetness. The very best juices I’ve ever had combine paradoxical opposites: They are simple yet complex, providing great flavor impact with sublime subtlety. Hooligan does that.

Oh, jeez, I think I’m falling in love again. My grade will reflect that new-found affection, but I feel duty-bound to add the caveat that I won’t really be able to accurately assess this custom RY4 until my infatuation fades, which will happen (it always does), although I can’t predict how long that might take.

Bottom line? GoodLifeVapor is a new juice vendor definitely worth checking out.

GoodLifeVapor Hooligan grade: A-
GoodLifeVapor Capone grade: B
GoodLifeVapor Monte Cristo grade: B+
GoodLifeVapor Sesame Shortbread: B+

Link to purchase: GoodLifeVapor Hooligan
 

passerbyeus

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I got my Zeus Creamy RY4 in and its nothing like I thought it would be a total let down lol not sure how you like this stuff Bill and if its even the same juice but it says Creamy RY4 on the bottle , this stuff taste just like White Stag Tobacco and is way to nutty for me, like a dirty woodys taste lol. So that being said another mans trash is another mans treasure!!! I have 30ml 6mg for $10 shipped if anyone wants it lol
 

midficollege

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I got my Zeus Creamy RY4 in and its nothing like I thought it would be a total let down lol not sure how you like this stuff Bill and if its even the same juice but it says Creamy RY4 on the bottle , this stuff taste just like White Stag Tobacco and is way to nutty for me, like a dirty woodys taste lol. So that being said another mans trash is another mans treasure!!! I have 30ml 6mg for $10 shipped if anyone wants it lol

Did you taste the weird minty type of 'cool' aftertaste that I did, PBU? I'm just hopeful that I'm not losing my mind as quickly as I sometimes think I am.
 

passerbyeus

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Yes and I have had that in other RY4s also, its the to nutty part which almost makes it like a menthol, I have heard it referred to as being called to chesty lol.

Did you taste the weird minty type of 'cool' aftertaste that I did, PBU? I'm just hopeful that I'm not losing my mind as quickly as I sometimes think I am.
 

sandybeach

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I got my Zeus Creamy RY4 in and its nothing like I thought it would be a total let down lol not sure how you like this stuff Bill and if its even the same juice but it says Creamy RY4 on the bottle , this stuff taste just like White Stag Tobacco and is way to nutty for me, like a dirty woodys taste lol. So that being said another mans trash is another mans treasure!!! I have 30ml 6mg for $10 shipped if anyone wants it lol

Ummm, I just dropped by to see if a woody was a station wagon.
 

billherbst

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I got my Zeus Creamy RY4 in and its nothing like I thought it would be a total let down lol not sure how you like this stuff Bill and if its even the same juice but it says Creamy RY4 on the bottle , this stuff taste just like White Stag Tobacco and is way to nutty for me, like a dirty woodys taste lol. So that being said another mans trash is another mans treasure!!! I have 30ml 6mg for $10 shipped if anyone wants it lol

passer,

Sorry that I neglected to mention about the nuttiness in Zeus Creamy RY4. I'm in a phase of enjoying nutty RY4s---you know, that sort of thing waxes and wanes: I like nuttiness, then I don't. I like caramel-rich, then I don't. I like sweet RY4s, then I don't. I live right next to the Pacific Ocean, you know, so I roll with the tides.

As I've written before and will re-state here, after writing 18,723,611 RY4 reviews over the past 17 months, I now feel that the primary value of my reviews (sometimes their only value) is as entertainment for readers of this thread. Basing buying decisions on what I write is the vaping equivalent of playing the roulette wheel in Vegas.

While I gave Zeus Creamy RY4 a grade of B, I did state that it's eccentric and idiosyncratic. I don't have you pegged as a "classic" guy, but since you love Raf-a-licious, I assume that the weirder RY4s are probably not your cup of tea. Maybe you were seduced by the "RY4 milkshake" comment. Since you like the sweetness of V4L Jammin and TW RY4, you might like GoodLifeVapor Hooligan. (But then again, you might not.)

Anyway, I offer my condolences at your disappointment. As Scarlett O'Hara famously said, "Tomorrow is another day." I hope you find someone to take that bottle of Creamy RY4 off your hands.
 
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