From Bill....
Yesterday, in one of a number of Google searches I’ve done recently for “original RY4,” I came up with some RY4 threads I hadn’t seen before. I think I’ve read most if not all the RY4 threads on ECF, but these new threads were from different ecig forums I don’t normally frequent. The latest of the threads were from 2012, but most were considerably older than that, all the way back to 2009.
The various “histories” of the origins of RY4 presented in posts on these threads (histories that were usually asserted as fact rather than mere opinion or hearsay) were all over the map. Dekang invented RY4. No, JoyeTech invented RY4. No, Boge invented RY4 and Janty took credit for it, since Boge was supplying Janty’s juice.
The most interesting post was from Fatman, a moderator on the AussieVapers forum, who stated unequivocally that a company called Ruyan was the first commercial ecig manufacturer in China (in 2004), and that Ruyan invented not only the first ecig vaporizers, but also all the “original” eliquids in a series labeled Ruyan-1, Ruyan-2, Ruyan-3, and Ruyan-4. If that’s true (which I cannot confirm or deny), was Ruyan-4 the same juice flavor as RY4? A poster on another thread commented that the four Ruyan liquids were all terrible, saying that eliquid flavorings have come a long way since then. Here’s Fatman's post from December 2012 (edited for spelling/grammar):
Ahhhh, it's good being OLD and having been around vaping a long time. RY4, despite all the speculation above, is a RUYAN flavour. Ruyan were THE FIRST commercial electronic cigarette. They were horribly expensive ($300+in 2004) and actually used an ultrasonic mister and a coil. Only the first model had the mister set-up. Cheaper ($150+) models followed in 2005 like the modern cigar versions, and they set the standard for what is the e-cig we know today.
There were originally 4 different blends of fluid RY1, RY2, RY3, and our beloved RY4. The RY was an abbreviation for RuYan. RY4 was the most popular by an avalanche, and, as such, when other e-cigs came out, the race was on to produce a fluid similar to Ruyan’s top preferred blend. RY4 today has VERY little in common with the original RY4.
Numerous other posters on that thread clearly disliked and mistrusted Janty, and the excoriations included statements that Janty fraudulently claimed ownership of ideas of products that were not theirs. Here’s that post (also edited for spelling):
I think Janty is full of it if you ask me. If it was the same then everyone would buy the Janty classic RY4, however that's not the case because it's NOT the same. Janty buys from Joye. Bogecigs made the original. Two separate and different companies. I think Janty just has some marketing scheme going on trying to suck new vapers into thinking it's the original, yet it's not.
This particular Aussie thread also contained numerous references to and quotes from posts made on our own RY4 Roundup thread here concerning discoveries and revelations about the history of RY4. Here’s a link to that entire thread:
”Is Dekang RY4 the original RY4?”
In support of fairness and honest disclosure, I want to comment on our research on this thread into the subject of RY4’s origins, to clarify and qualify the story that we learned. I won’t reiterate that story here, since I’ve done so in many prrevious posts already. My comment is mainly about our methods and sources.
People might assume that all of what we learned here came from public posts on this or other threads. Not so. A considerable amount of information was shared with me through Private Messages, sometimes under either of two stipulations: 1. that I could use the information but not reveal my source, or 2. that the information itself was not to be shared. I have complied with those stipulations.
That disclosure alone doesn’t prove or disprove anything about the truth or falsehood of the information shared with me. I offer it simply to let people know that private information shared with me has been part of putting together the puzzle and was a source of occasional but significant pieces of the whole picture.
The other concern is the trustworthiness of our sources. Many individuals have contributed to this archaeology project---digging up and re-assembling the true history of RY4 in an attempt to put to rest all the opinion, hearsay, conjecture, innuendo, and gossip that poses as truth but isn’t.
Of all those sources, one person is undeniably critical: Ludo, one of the owners of Janty, who claims to be the co-creator of RY4. I’ve never interacted with Ludo personally, but I have read all his posts on ECF. Some of the other sources were people who worked with or otherwise knew Ludo. Sometimes what those other sources shared with me was directly from their work with Janty and/or Ludo. Other times, what they shared was information that Ludo told them personally.
The point here is simple: If the information from Ludo is correct and true, then the history I’ve assembled on this thread is accurate. On the other hand, if Ludo’s facts and descriptions concerning the creation of the original RY4 are untrue---for whatever reason: faulty memory, incomplete knowledge, or even outright deception---then the story I’ve been telling is inaccurate, just one more fictional account to add to the existing pile of BS.
There is a case to be made for the prosecution. At various points over the last three years, Janty has claimed in its on-site ad copy that a certain version of Janty RY4 was the “original” recipe. First it was Janty RY4 Classic, then it was Janty RY4 Elixir, and now more recently Ludo has assured us that Janty RY4 DK-series is the real thing, exactly the same recipe as the first-ever RY4 created ad hoc by himself and an unnamed Dekang flavor chemist one fine day in 2007 inside a Dekang production facility in China.
Well, I’ve personally vaped Janty RY4 Classic, Elixir, and DK, (each in the same nic strength) and I can attest without any hesitation or uncertainty that they are not identical. Sure, they’re all Janty RY4s, and all three share a strong family resemblance. But they are clearly not exactly the same or perfectly identical. How then could Janty have asserted in turn that all three were the “original” recipe for RY4? That conflict bothers me, and makes me wonder if all the other information we’ve gotten from Janty or Ludo might be suspect.
I have no way to fact-check any of this, which frustrates me a little. I can say that my other sources---that is, people other than Ludo---who shared information with me privately all seemed trustworthy and sincere. I don’t believe that any of them would or did lie to me intentionally. But that doesn’t guarantee that they weren’t deceived or misinformed, since much of what they shared traces back to Ludo.
In my telling the story that’s been pieced together, I’ve consistently tried to be fair-minded. I wasn’t there, folks, and the story I tell over and over is a compilation of “facts” that were shared with me second- and sometimes third-hand. The truth or falsehood of the story I offer is dependent on the accuracy and veracity of those facts. I see no reason, however, to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Despite my concerns, until I have solid evidence that what we’ve learned on this thread is untrue, I will continue to offer it as the most correct version I can assemble of how RY4 was originally created.
I would really like to know more about this shadowy Chinese company called Ruyan that was supposedly a prime mover in the creation of ecigs and vaping. If anyone has information concerning that company, its history, and/or its products, please post it here or contact me via PM.
Yesterday, in one of a number of Google searches I’ve done recently for “original RY4,” I came up with some RY4 threads I hadn’t seen before. I think I’ve read most if not all the RY4 threads on ECF, but these new threads were from different ecig forums I don’t normally frequent. The latest of the threads were from 2012, but most were considerably older than that, all the way back to 2009.
The various “histories” of the origins of RY4 presented in posts on these threads (histories that were usually asserted as fact rather than mere opinion or hearsay) were all over the map. Dekang invented RY4. No, JoyeTech invented RY4. No, Boge invented RY4 and Janty took credit for it, since Boge was supplying Janty’s juice.
The most interesting post was from Fatman, a moderator on the AussieVapers forum, who stated unequivocally that a company called Ruyan was the first commercial ecig manufacturer in China (in 2004), and that Ruyan invented not only the first ecig vaporizers, but also all the “original” eliquids in a series labeled Ruyan-1, Ruyan-2, Ruyan-3, and Ruyan-4. If that’s true (which I cannot confirm or deny), was Ruyan-4 the same juice flavor as RY4? A poster on another thread commented that the four Ruyan liquids were all terrible, saying that eliquid flavorings have come a long way since then. Here’s Fatman's post from December 2012 (edited for spelling/grammar):
Ahhhh, it's good being OLD and having been around vaping a long time. RY4, despite all the speculation above, is a RUYAN flavour. Ruyan were THE FIRST commercial electronic cigarette. They were horribly expensive ($300+in 2004) and actually used an ultrasonic mister and a coil. Only the first model had the mister set-up. Cheaper ($150+) models followed in 2005 like the modern cigar versions, and they set the standard for what is the e-cig we know today.
There were originally 4 different blends of fluid RY1, RY2, RY3, and our beloved RY4. The RY was an abbreviation for RuYan. RY4 was the most popular by an avalanche, and, as such, when other e-cigs came out, the race was on to produce a fluid similar to Ruyan’s top preferred blend. RY4 today has VERY little in common with the original RY4.
Numerous other posters on that thread clearly disliked and mistrusted Janty, and the excoriations included statements that Janty fraudulently claimed ownership of ideas of products that were not theirs. Here’s that post (also edited for spelling):
I think Janty is full of it if you ask me. If it was the same then everyone would buy the Janty classic RY4, however that's not the case because it's NOT the same. Janty buys from Joye. Bogecigs made the original. Two separate and different companies. I think Janty just has some marketing scheme going on trying to suck new vapers into thinking it's the original, yet it's not.
This particular Aussie thread also contained numerous references to and quotes from posts made on our own RY4 Roundup thread here concerning discoveries and revelations about the history of RY4. Here’s a link to that entire thread:
”Is Dekang RY4 the original RY4?”
In support of fairness and honest disclosure, I want to comment on our research on this thread into the subject of RY4’s origins, to clarify and qualify the story that we learned. I won’t reiterate that story here, since I’ve done so in many prrevious posts already. My comment is mainly about our methods and sources.
People might assume that all of what we learned here came from public posts on this or other threads. Not so. A considerable amount of information was shared with me through Private Messages, sometimes under either of two stipulations: 1. that I could use the information but not reveal my source, or 2. that the information itself was not to be shared. I have complied with those stipulations.
That disclosure alone doesn’t prove or disprove anything about the truth or falsehood of the information shared with me. I offer it simply to let people know that private information shared with me has been part of putting together the puzzle and was a source of occasional but significant pieces of the whole picture.
The other concern is the trustworthiness of our sources. Many individuals have contributed to this archaeology project---digging up and re-assembling the true history of RY4 in an attempt to put to rest all the opinion, hearsay, conjecture, innuendo, and gossip that poses as truth but isn’t.
Of all those sources, one person is undeniably critical: Ludo, one of the owners of Janty, who claims to be the co-creator of RY4. I’ve never interacted with Ludo personally, but I have read all his posts on ECF. Some of the other sources were people who worked with or otherwise knew Ludo. Sometimes what those other sources shared with me was directly from their work with Janty and/or Ludo. Other times, what they shared was information that Ludo told them personally.
The point here is simple: If the information from Ludo is correct and true, then the history I’ve assembled on this thread is accurate. On the other hand, if Ludo’s facts and descriptions concerning the creation of the original RY4 are untrue---for whatever reason: faulty memory, incomplete knowledge, or even outright deception---then the story I’ve been telling is inaccurate, just one more fictional account to add to the existing pile of BS.
There is a case to be made for the prosecution. At various points over the last three years, Janty has claimed in its on-site ad copy that a certain version of Janty RY4 was the “original” recipe. First it was Janty RY4 Classic, then it was Janty RY4 Elixir, and now more recently Ludo has assured us that Janty RY4 DK-series is the real thing, exactly the same recipe as the first-ever RY4 created ad hoc by himself and an unnamed Dekang flavor chemist one fine day in 2007 inside a Dekang production facility in China.
Well, I’ve personally vaped Janty RY4 Classic, Elixir, and DK, (each in the same nic strength) and I can attest without any hesitation or uncertainty that they are not identical. Sure, they’re all Janty RY4s, and all three share a strong family resemblance. But they are clearly not exactly the same or perfectly identical. How then could Janty have asserted in turn that all three were the “original” recipe for RY4? That conflict bothers me, and makes me wonder if all the other information we’ve gotten from Janty or Ludo might be suspect.
I have no way to fact-check any of this, which frustrates me a little. I can say that my other sources---that is, people other than Ludo---who shared information with me privately all seemed trustworthy and sincere. I don’t believe that any of them would or did lie to me intentionally. But that doesn’t guarantee that they weren’t deceived or misinformed, since much of what they shared traces back to Ludo.
In my telling the story that’s been pieced together, I’ve consistently tried to be fair-minded. I wasn’t there, folks, and the story I tell over and over is a compilation of “facts” that were shared with me second- and sometimes third-hand. The truth or falsehood of the story I offer is dependent on the accuracy and veracity of those facts. I see no reason, however, to throw out the baby with the bathwater. Despite my concerns, until I have solid evidence that what we’ve learned on this thread is untrue, I will continue to offer it as the most correct version I can assemble of how RY4 was originally created.
I would really like to know more about this shadowy Chinese company called Ruyan that was supposedly a prime mover in the creation of ecigs and vaping. If anyone has information concerning that company, its history, and/or its products, please post it here or contact me via PM.
