The Really Big RY4 Roundup (long)

[josho]

I'm by no means an RY4 guru, much less an expert in the NET realm, but I just received my Skydancer RY4 today and I couldn't wait to vape it! The aroma of the liquid itself is enticing.. like how the smell of bacon makes you hungry even if you just ate a full meal (no, this juice does not smell like bacon).

The inhale - smooth clean tobacco taste, better than any of the tobacco vapes I've had to date. A simple complexity of flavor dances on the tongue.

The exhale - mind officially blown. Smooth, sweet, creamy.. the carmelly creaminess lingers on the palate. Makes you want to take another hit.


It's still early to say, but this is ADV material right here. Where do I remit payment for about a gallon of this stuff?

 

[thehangdude]

The nose of Bill's newest liquid is heavily caramel. The color is a translucent brown. The ejuice is only four days old, so there has been little time for proper steeping. The flavor may stay the same or totally change over time.

The tobacco has the grassy flavor often found in NETs. There is a smokiness to the tobacco that lingers as a pleasant aftertaste. The tobacco is out front, and carries its strength throughout the vape.

The next flavor is the rich caramel. It is a thick flavor that seems like a heavy blanket on the tobacco. The caramel has a dessert-like sweetness to it, a rich dark caramel.

Almost hidden in this blend is the high treble of vanilla. It gets noticed during the exhale.

Overall, this is a good NET RY4. The trinity of flavors are compatible. Currently the flavors are separate and distinct. If stepping helps meld the flavors, this could turn into the next "Radiator Pluid" and could cause Bill to quit his daytime job as a telemarketer. As it is now, this flavor has earned itself a solid B+.

Thank you for sending out the samples Bill. You are the man!

 

[RPadTV]

My Janty e-liquids are jealous of this lovely new addition!

First drip: The tobacco flavor is lovely and I'm digging the overall mix. My first impression of the sweets is that there's more vanilla than caramel.

Second drip: Definitely tasting more caramel as I get accustomed to the overall flavor and I'm still enjoying the great tobacco. I agree with josho that the caramel lingers, which is nice thing.

I'm going to uncap the bottle for five minutes and let the juice steep for a couple of weeks. My first impression of Skydancer was great and I'm sure it will get better with age.

 

[Cnew]

Nice....bill, maybe you should reconsider your day job?

 

[Jerms]

So what happens when someone who has extensive experience with the flavor known as RY4 uses his knowledge to make a NET RY4, using a simple maceration and flavorings he's experienced with? Looks to be very good things is what happens.

Congrats on your DIY success Bill! If you send out a second round I'll have to be sure to raise my hand high.

Sent from my LGL55C using Tapatalk 2

 

[billherbst]

Steeping is having a definite and pronounced effect on this batch of Skydancer RY4 (v2b). When I sampled the juice fresh after mixing, I worried that I had used too much Tart and Sour. The citrus element was strong and seemed to push back the caramel and vanilla.

Now, one week later, the citrus is entirely gone (to my palate), and the overall sourness has diminished to just a whisper, even less than I intended. Meanwhile, the creamy caramel has stepped forward into a dominant role, aided by the rich French Vanilla in which it's wrapped. The sweetness seems about right to me at this stage, right in the mid-ground sweet that I aimed for.

The NET tobacco extract continues to have presence, mainly through its grassy smokiness. I hope that further steeping will bring out the actual flavor of the tobacco more. Who knows? Perhaps the trio of flavors will even begin to meld some, although I'm not unhappy with the current state of relatively balanced separation. My guess is that it's probably not possible with an NET base to achieve the overall unified singularity of flavor of the best Classic RY4s. But then, that's part of what makes Custom RY4s what they are---the distinct experience of each flavor component. The Classic/Custom differences aren't a right/wrong, good/bad thing, but merely two very specific ways of flavor presentation. Apples and oranges.

Also, Version 5 of the test recipes, which finished second to Version 2b, is now coming on and beginning to emerge after this week's steeping as the new front-runner. So far, V5 is the leading candidate for a possible second batch. It's a bit less rich and more sour than v2b and slightly closer to the flavor profile I had in my sights originally.

Test Version 4, which was initially far too citrusy and unpleasantly sour, is now acceptable and not half-bad. Who knows? Perhaps V4 will gain even more ground with further steeping.

Thankfully, all the version recipes and sub-version variations are written down and recorded, so I should be able to replicate whichever I choose, at least in the realm of best laid plans. LOL.

 

[josho]

I'm giving it a couple of runs in the ultrasonic cleaner at 480s a run to see how/if that changes it at all. I'm quite excited to see how this matures throughout the steeping process, although it's going to be hard because it's so darn good to begin with.

 

[josho]

I ran it for about 48 minutes in a hot water bath in an ultrasonic cleaner last night. So far the flavors seem to have melded together even better. I still get a good smooth tobacco taste on the inhale (maybe even more pronounced than before), but I get more of the vanilla and caramel now. I can't think of a better term for it than that it's very luscious. Went great with my morning coffee, and went great last night after a spicy dinner.

 

[clnire]

So how do I get some of this Skydancer RY4???? I am mostly a lurker but have actually read most of this thread!! and have tried several of Bill's favs. Really good! So...... Pretty Please???

 

[billherbst]

I ran it for about 48 minutes in a hot water bath in an ultrasonic cleaner last night. So far the flavors seem to have melded together even better. I still get a good smooth tobacco taste on the inhale (maybe even more pronounced than before), but I get more of the vanilla and caramel now. I can't think of a better term for it than that it's very luscious. Went great with my morning coffee, and went great last night after a spicy dinner.

josho,

In my initial experiments (which were just me fooling around really, since I had no expectation of achieving good results), I tried making an RY4 from the Skydancer NET using somewhat "leaner" or "tighter" caramel and vanilla flavorings, but the results didn't please me. Something about the nature of the Skydancer extract seemed to demand richer-than-normal flavorings. I don't know why that was so, but that's what worked.

I ended up going flat-out for pigs-in-slop lusciousness by using Lorann Naturals Creamy Caramel flavoring, which has more of an ice-cream topping feel than a hard candy caramel taste, and Capella's French Vanilla, which is by far the richest vanilla of all the 15-or-so vanilla or Bavarian cream flavorings I have in my stash. Also, I didn't skimp on the mix percentages of the caramel and vanilla, since I needed to balance the pronounced smokiness of the Skydancer extract.

Now if I'll just get off my duff and order some malic acid crystals (TPA/TFA sells them) to get closer to the Janty/Vapor..... sourness and provide a punchier sweet-sour contrast, I can retire and rest on my laurels. LOL.

 

[billherbst]

So how do I get some of this Skydancer RY4???? I am mostly a lurker but have actually read most of this thread!! and have tried several of Bill's favs. Really good! So...... Pretty Please???

Since the "early returns" from the polls are looking so positive, I'll probably tweak the recipe a bit more and do a second batch of 10ml bottles for those who missed the first round or want another bottle. That won't be tomorrow, but it'll probably be sooner than later, so keep watching the thread.

 

[Randy C]

Randy,

Yes, my criticism is not with the juice itself. I feel that it's a very well-crafted, flavorful, and interesting eliquid---a tasty tobacco blend of considerable note. I just wish Highbrow had named it something other than RY4, since it stretches the flavor envelope of RY4 to the breaking point. That is, of course, one of the qualities frequently seen in Custom RY4s---often they don't merely alter the mix percentages of the core RY4 ingredients, but they sometimes test the limits of what an RY4 is.

I would have preferred for Highbrow to have dumped the RY4 schtick and simply stated that they started out in RY4 Land but ended up somewhere else, because that's where their creative muse beckoned, and---like all true artists---they followed their muse.

Interesting thoughts Bill. While reading your post, another "non-typical" RY4 came to mind. Quite some time ago, I remember reading all the hype about Backwoods Brew RY4; it was all the craze! I was really excited to try it because so many people loved this juice. I promised myself I would let this juice steep for at least two weeks, however when my order arrived I couldn't resist the temptation to try it. My first impression was, "What the hell is this"? Did Don make a mistake and send me the wrong juice? Was this RY4 or some kind of "Joker"? The first thing that hit my pallet was menthol... what the heck is menthol doing in an RY4? Then I tried to determine what on earth the other ingredients were. I flat out hated it. I put it away to steep and came back with it about once a month for the next few months. While it became palatable and almost enjoyable after a few months, I never reordered it because I couldn't wrap my arms around what it's ingredients were and because it never scratched my RY4 itch. All the while, others continued to go crazy ordering it

 

[billherbst]

Interesting thoughts Bill. While reading your post, another "non-typical" RY4 came to mind. Quite some time ago, I remember reading all the hype about Backwoods Brew RY4; it was all the craze! I was really excited to try it because so many people loved this juice. I promised myself I would let this juice steep for at least two weeks, however when my order arrived I couldn't resist the temptation to try it. My first impression was, "What the hell is this"? Did Don make a mistake and send me the wrong juice? Was this RY4 or some kind of "Joker"? The first thing that hit my pallet was menthol... what the heck is menthol doing in an RY4? Then I tried to determine what on earth the other ingredients were. I flat out hated it. I put it away to steep and came back with it about once a month for the next few months. While it became palatable and almost enjoyable after a few months, I never reordered it because I couldn't wrap my arms around what it's ingredients were and because it never scratched my RY4 itch. All the while, others continued to go crazy ordering it

Randy,

Ah, memory lane! I am a not-so-distinguished veteran of the BackwoodsBrew RY4 wars, and I've got the scars to prove it.

BWB was the third RY4 I tried early on in my vaping hobby/obsession (late-2010), after FSUSA RY4 and Dekang RY4. For awhile, it was my favorite, at least until I had about 30 RY4s under my belt and had started this thread. In fact, I rated BWB RY4 as #1 in the original post that had capsule reviews and rankings for 20-some RY4s. Lord knows it was the most popular.

From that point on, however, BWB RY4 went into long slide for me, steadily falling from favor into disrepute. I went from loving it to liking it to not being sure about it to finally not even vaping it anymore (although I still have about 10mls left). The oddness that charmed me at first eventually became decidedly less charming, and eventually even off-putting. The strong cedar tone of the tobacco component finally did me in. And all along that progression, I had to periodically explain on the thread to some BWB RY4 lover why his favorite RY4 was sinking in my rankings.

Personally, I was relieved when Don discontinued it, because I was tired of defending my position. LOL. I still keep a carto loaded with BWB RY4 on my desk, along with 99 other carto-loaded RY4s, but these days I vape it only for comparison-testing.

 

[Sero]

Got my Skydancer Ry4 in. The tobacco in it kind of reminded me of the Johnson creek Tennessee cured tobacco or the flavor JC uses in blu carts. I'm not too familiar with NETs, but I like this one overall. I do think it should be tweaked, but the foundation is there.

On the inhale i get that smooth, rich tobacco flavor. It's nothing too off putting or floral. I really don't think the tobacco element can get much better. On the exhale, I get a sweet, moist creaminess with vanilla and marshmallow...maybe just a hint of caramel. Those three flavors seem to all blend into to one flavor.

I think the caramel element of this juice can be enhanced without it losing its great balance. I would like to get more of a caramel flavor with the tobacco on the inhale. The exhale flavors were on point already. To me, that would make it truly worthy of being called an RY4. Right now, I feel it's more of a creamy vanilla, marshmallow tobacco.

I know there is only 1% marshmallow in this, but I do taste it and smell it in the juice. It seems like it overtakes the vanilla a little bit to me. I would like it if normal cotton candy EM was used. (If they are the same then I might just be imagining it.)

Overall, I rate it in at a B+. I'm very picky about caramel in RY4, but I still found this version to be hard to put down. If I got some more caramel flavor on the inhale, and maybe if regular EM was used (plus maybe a drop or two of AP even?), it would easily be an A+ ADV. It has a very addictive quality about it, and would be the perfect juice for someone transitioning to ecigs. This stuff also hits like a truck at 18mg. I'm curious as to the brand of nic that was used. I use WL Ice, which is has a lighter throat hit than regular nic, so I'm used to that.

Thanks again Bill, I will be watching to see where this juice goes. You are definitely pioneering a new frontier of RY4s. The NET is the key. You would have no problem getting a distributor for your "Skydancer" line of juices. As I vaped it, I kept thinking how YEARS of experience with countless RY4s went into it. I'm sure you experimented with many flavors from all the brands. It definitely shows in the product.

 

[billherbst]

Thanks, Sero!

While I did spend considerable time developing the juice, it's probably more ad hoc and arbitrary than some people might assume. I don't have the patience to make 100 different betas using many different kinds and brands of flavoring. I do have about ten versions currently, but I settled on a limited set of flavorings early on, and the current versions vary mainly in mix percentages.

Once I've moved on from a given 6ml beta version, I tend to mess with it by adding other flavorings just to see the effects, but then I pour that into a larger bottle with all the other previous versions. Curiously, my 50ml bottle of "Junk Skydancer RY4" is my personal favorite of all right now, but I can't replicate it.

Lorann Naturals Creamy Caramel flavoring may be the "culprit" in your wanting a more focused caramel. The Lorann's might have more of a vanilla flavor to some palates (your among them), although I agree with the hangdude's opinion that Skydancer RY4 v2b is caramel-rich, with the vanilla as a trailing flavor, so your categorizing it as vanilla-rich isn't how I taste it. My newest versions (6a and 6b) provide the caramel and vanilla components from a combination of Lorann, Capella, and Nature's Flavors. I don't know if you'd like v6 more or less than v2b, but v6 is slightly less rich.

The only reason that there's any marshmallow at all in the recipe was for the sweet-sour counterbalance/contrast. The problem I've discovered is that the marshmallow develops and expands with steeping, while the citric/malic acid of Lorann Tart and Sour is very strong at first, when the juice is freshly made, but diminishes almost to vanishing within a few days. As a result, v2b started out with considerable sourness, but now has almost none. I haven't solved that problem yet. Maybe I'll try just leaving out the marshmallow. I'm trying to resist turning my home into a science lab or production facility. It's hard enough just recording every tiny change in each version and keeping track of it all. LOL.

The nicotine used is Wizard Labs regular 100mg/ml 50/50 PG/VG. I wanted to try John's Ice formulation, but missed out when it was available, and now it's gone, at least for awhile. I agree that the 250ml bottle of Wizard Labs liquid nic I used for this batch (I have a new unopened 250ml bottle and will buy another soon) has one heck of a punch at the 18-24mg level, substantially more than any of the other four brands I've used in the past.

I respect the true pioneers of NETs and consider myself an admirer and aficionado, but not at all a compatriot to those people. I'm just following their lead as an enthusiastic amateur. As I've written many times, I have no wish or intention to become a vendor or juice supplier. I already have a profession that I've loved for 40 years. This is just for fun, and to share with my ECF friends. I'll probably charge a bit more if I do another batch ($5 for a 10ml bottle sounds about right), but all I hope to make in terms of dollars is enough to keep buying flavorings, liquid nic, and PG/VG. LOL.

 

[clnire]

I will gladly pay you $5 plus shipping to try some Bill! I will be following this post closely.. I also have my own business and stay busy, but I do check in daily!! I will also post a review as best I can. I am not as eloquent with words as some, but I will do my best...

 

[MisterCombo21]

Wanted to comment on the Skydancer but first wanted to spend a little time with it. My impressions are about the same as everyone else... Very well balanced, good smokey flavor and I believe you nailed the sour perfectly. I almost exclusively use a genesis style wrapped Igo L and noticed the most interesting thing. When the juice is getting low and the vapor starts to diminish, I get an incredibly smokey and anologue like taste. The sour aspect really accentuates it. That being said, it clogs the coil a great deal, I would say on a level equal with Vaperite.... This probably explains the lovely smokiness though I have not noticed this exact effect with other NET RY4's... Also after 1ml, the coils are double the thickness and the vapor starts to diminish. I took off the wick and noticed the wick almost looks like black volcano glass that needs to be torched off. I now have a Skydancer- dedicated Igo as I still really enjoy it and would rate it far better than Vaperite or Want2Vape Ry4 (the two I can think of right now that I have spent the most time with). Vaperite I feel has a heavy maple tone and is too sickly sweet and Want2Vape's didn't leave a great impression either. I would actually go so far as to say Skydancer is the best NET RY4 I've had... Its perfect for what it is and I believe for what you were going for... I may experiment with a very lightly macerated (?) NET in the similar fashion you did this one and tone it down with some synthetic tobacco.

Thanks so much, Bill. Definitely enjoyed it and would probably be trying to replicate it exactly if it weren't for the clogginess. For my vape style, its just not practical enough as a daily.

 

[RPadTV]

Picked up a sample of MoV's Full Virginia Flake at The Vapor-Mart yesterday and have already gone through 5ml. I'm really enjoying this NET RY4 and looking forward to my big bottle arriving later this week. Initially, I thought I liked it better than GeJ's GJ4, but also noted that it was probably the excitement of trying something new. After spending more time with it, I'm not sure which one I prefer. They're both really flavorful and really well-made NET RY4s, but also very different. I'm thinking more people will like the MoV juice. GeJ has a unique NET style that can be polarizing. Personally, I love the GeJ NETs I've tried, but completely understand why some people find that particular extraction "funky" and "musty."

 

[billherbst]

MisterCombo,

My Skydancer NET was filtered only once. Scarf-ace's method calls for 2-3 successive filtrations. I considered filtering a second time, but I really liked the smokiness and natural sweetness, so I stopped right there after one filtering.

Although I haven't personally noticed any particular problems (loss of flavor, diminishing vapor) with the carto tanks and Bauway CE4 clearos into which I've loaded various Skydancer blends, I don't doubt that it might gunk up coils something fierce, especially for the RBA users, who seem the most sensitive to the issue of coil-gunking. I haven't tried Skydancer in my Igo-L yet, but---having read your post---I will, mainly to confirm your experience (which, as I say, is about what I'd expect).

I don't know how an NET might be different if the liquid from the maceration were triple- or quadruple-filtered (meaning filtered 3 or 4 times successively, not once using 3 or 4 filter layers). Presumably, less of the particulates and other compounds liable to burn would make it into the finished extract. Whether this would diminish the potency, I can't say.

 

[billherbst]

Picked up a sample of MoV's Full Virginia Flake at The Vapor-Mart yesterday and have already gone through 5ml. I'm really enjoying this NET RY4 and looking forward to my big bottle arriving later this week. Initially, I thought I liked it better than GeJ's GJ4, but also noted that it was probably the excitement of trying something new. After spending more time with it, I'm not sure which one I prefer. They're both really flavorful and really well-made NET RY4s, but also very different. I'm thinking more people will like the MoV juice. GeJ has a unique NET style that can be polarizing. Personally, I love the GeJ NETs I've tried, but completely understand why some people find that particular extraction "funky" and "musty."

RPad,

My experience is with GeJ and MOV NET-based RY4s is about the same as yours. In my opinion, GJ4's NET is more aggressive, and the overall flavor profile is more eccentric, whereas Full Virginia Flake has a somewhat more neutral NET and sticks closer to the traditional RY4 formulation. GJ4's mustiness is more adventurous and risky. MOV plays it safer. I appreciate both approaches, and I go back and forth about which I like better. Amazingly, I like my own Skydancer RY4 v2b more than either of them. Go figure.