The results of a study of 19000 E-Cigarette users

[LaraC]

Yes, most of the people who participated in the survey heard about it through ECF or through Facebook. Not a random population sample.

The survey participants' extremely high rate of getting off traditional cigarettes -- substituting vaping for smoking -- underscores (in my mind) the importance of having a wide variety of devices and wide choice of flavored e-liquids to suit each person's needs or preferences. And the importance of becoming aware of the variety....thank goodness for ECF!

Indeed, Dr. Farsalinos stated on pages 4368-4369 in the Discussion section of the results:

It should be emphasized that participants in these surveys are mostly dedicated users. Herein, this is
verified by the fact that the majority of subjects heard about this survey from EC users’ forums. It is
expected that such a population has more positive experience from EC use. Other subgroups such as
people who were using ECs in the past but are no longer using them, due to either failure to reduce
smoking or negative experience and side effects, are not motivated to participate to such surveys.
.
Therefore the results should be interpreted with caution and cannot be extrapolated to the general
population. The 81% of participants reporting complete smoking substitution cannot be interpreted as
the true potential of ECs in smoking cessation in the general population; controlled studies have found
much lower cessation rates [9,10], although such studies cannot take into account the large variability
of products available in the market which gives users the opportunity to choose devices based on
personal preference.

(bold and underline emphasis mine)

I would suspect that when e-cigs were provided to people in older studies, the devices generally were cig-alikes, rather than the robust types of personal vaporizers used by a great many of this forum's readers. They also probably used tobacco flavors, rather the wide variety of flavors that adults who vape can choose from.


No wonder experienced vapers reported far better quit/substitution/reduction rates than have been seen in older studies.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

Thank you for posting. Somebody ought to send this to the European Parliament seeing as the people they are trying to kill are primarily the respondents in this survey.

 

[Bob Chill]

One thing that really bothers me about Gov decisions makers, Dr. Oz, authors of negative press, and all the others that want to hinder ecig use is that the majority of them have likely seen a close friend/co-worker/relative quit smoking via ecigs. And most likely have witnessed the positive health benefits first hand.

Even if this study has a bias because of the sample the fact that ecigs are the single most effective method of quitting smoking really can't be denied by either anecdotal or scientific evidence. Well, unless you "massage" the #'s of course.

I've personally witnessed over an 80% success rate and most of the people have no idea about forums like this. The one common denominator is that everyone I know who has been successful has wanted to quit and already failed at other methods.

 

[MTFogger]

Send this to the FDA,AMA,ALA etc along with the 19000 signatures of the participants.

 

[Kent C]

One thing that really bothers me about Gov decisions makers, Dr. Oz, authors of negative press, and all the others that want to hinder ecig use is that the majority of them have likely seen a close friend/co-worker/relative quit smoking via ecigs. And most likely have witnessed the positive health benefits first hand.

Even if this study has a bias because of the sample the fact that ecigs are the single most effective method of quitting smoking really can't be denied by either anecdotal or scientific evidence. Well, unless you "massage" the #'s of course.

I've personally witnessed over an 80% success rate and most of the people have no idea about forums like this. The one common denominator is that everyone I know who has been successful has wanted to quit and already failed at other methods.

I don't think it is a bias to do a survey on people who use ecigarettes by picking people who use ecigarettes

I've had the same experience as you on success rates of people who I know personally who have tried them.

And what is more likely and even more 'bothersome' is that those people you mention - the antis - know people who have died of or have lung cancer or respiratory illness. One would think that that would give them pause before spreading negativity against something that could have saved or could save those people.

 

[3mg Meniere]

The results are good but we have to remember that this is a self selecting sample, large as it is. IIRC he recruited the vapers from online forum and facebook so as a random sample it's worthless. We should also realize that the results from NRT are equally worthless if they are from stop smoking centres, their samples are equally skewed by the selection method.

Despite the selection bias, this study should fuel the pressure to initiate scientifically rigorous studies. As in doctors recommending smoking cessation, and patients placed in various interventions, one being those selected for the e-cig (beyond cigalike) intervention. That intervention would also include on-line support, and financial assistance for hardware and juices. Such a study would be expensive, BUT we see plenty of justification for such a study, based on this research.

Some of us HAVE taken graduate-level coursework in research, and understand the importance of fully controlled studies.

 

[catlady60]

So I take it that over 80% of vapers successfully quit smoking, and the rest significantly reduced their tobacco use. Compare this to traditional NRT that has a dismal 5% success rate. Yes, the ANTZ have good reason to fear ecigs...

The ANTZ have billion$ of reasons to fear e-cigs, better know as their bottom lines.

 

[Bob Chill]

I don't think it is a bias to do a survey on people who use ecigarettes by picking people who use ecigarettes

I've had the same experience as you on success rates of people who I know personally who have tried them.

And what is more likely and even more 'bothersome' is that those people you mention - the antis - know people who have died of or have lung cancer or respiratory illness. One would think that that would give them pause before spreading negativity against something that could have saved or could save those people.

I do have some faith in the long lead outlook for the product. Like the 5-10 year window. Even though they've been around for a while, 2013 is probably the first "real" year of their existence. 2013 really stirred the pot at least. Got the attention of just about everyone and literally blew up market wise in overnight fashion. I think once the dust all settles the overwhelming evidence will no longer be able to be "spun" anymore and things will change. Just a few of many examples of safety deregulation would be the end of the 55mph national speed limit and also what CO and WA have recently done.

The selfish side of me isn't worried too much about the Gov because I have a 5-8 year insurance policy stored properly in the freezer. Even if one of the more worst case scenarios were to play out, I have a big time cushion before it matters much. I've been steadily dropping my nic (down to 10mg/ml now) and will probably settle into 8 soon. My supply may outlast me. I'll never give nic up totally. It works too well with my mind and body. Just like coffee. I don't drink a lot of coffee but if someone tried to take my 2 cups a day away I would probably end up on the morning news. LOL

 

[KODIAK (TM)]

This still doesn't address "The Children". The little buggers can still mix e-juice with their Drano!

 

[AndriaD]

You haven't missed much on the Nicotrol inhaler. I have personally tried it and it was very much as ineffective as all other NRTs out there, perhaps even more so.

Frankly it's hard to imagine anything less effective than the patch. Still trying to figure out how applying nicotine to the skin is supposed to change a BEHAVIOR. True, there's a dependency to nicotine that MUST be addressed by anyone trying to quit smoking, but the behavioral aspect is SO much more compelling... I'm sure that's why e-cigs are so successful, with those who are truly motivated to quit. But that was the aspect of the Nicotrol that appealed to me; years and years before e-cigs, here was a stop-smoking aid that you actually inhaled... seems ridiculously apt, in hindsight, but no, asthmatics can't have 'em! Let 'em keep smoking! Doofuses.

I haven't had health insurance in about 8 yrs, and I'm convinced that's why I'm so healthy -- no pill pushers writing prescriptions at me that are guaranteed to cause 37 new symptoms that will require a doc's care... so he can write me MORE prescriptions! AAARGHHH!

Andria

 

[lexic]

I considered myself a non-smoker before starting to vape. I had quit cigs 10+ years ago. What I want to know is... Why do so many vapers seem to treat people like me as a sort of enemy? "They" don't want things regulated as medical quit smoking devices yet "they" insist that vaping is for quitting smoking or harm reduction. "They" see non-smokers who vape as fuel for the "ANTZ". Why? This is a serious question and I'm not trying to start anything. (I welcome PMs if anybody wishes to keep it out of this thread. I'm bringing it up because the 88 non-smokers statistic was pointed out, and I'm curious.) I've only been around here for about a month and was ignorant to all the political drama around vaping before I started.

Of course I am extremely happy for anybody who can quit smoking. I sure wish vaping had been around when I quit because I really suffered. I don't have many smokers in my life, but I'm sure going to try to introduce any I can to vaping.

 

[Jake6731]

You were in fact a non-smoker when you took up vaping, but you were also a FORMER smoker. I think the reason you see so much "hostility" is because of the overhyped rhetoric from the ANTZ about e-cigs being a gateway to tobacco cigarettes and a life of nicotine addition. Much better for you to take up vaping than going back to tobacco. I personally tell folks that I wouldn't recommend vaping to a non-smoker, but as an adult former smoker, you know what your getting in to and you are making an informed decision. I have no issue at all with that. I also highly recommend vaping to any smoker that expresses any interest in it.

 

[Stosh]

Nothing against you lexic, or any former smokers who find enjoyment in vaping. The problem arises with the opponents of vaping in their claims that vaping will lead children to start (with nicotine) and then give up vaping and begin smoking. That's their story as bizarre as it is, and what you sometimes read is a reaction to this misinformation, not former smokers, such as yourself....

 

[LaraC]

lexic, maybe it's because I'm a Rottweiler person too ... but I see nothing wrong with you, or any other smoker-that-had-quit-for-years taking up vaping. I'm assuming you use an e-liquid that has nicotine. Of course, I don't view nicotine as a demon drug the way it's been portrayed for so many decades due to its association with smoking. Thanks to becoming aware of research that has looked at just nicotine without all the other junk that is packed into conventional cigarettes, I see nicotine itself to be a good thing for me. So, anyway... with or without nicotine in your e-liquid, if you enjoy vaping, I say good for you!

When we point with glee to how experimentally trying an e-cig does not seem to *cause* non-smokers to want to vape or take up smoking, we're just pointing out how little there is to worry about the so-called "gateway" effect that the ANTZ natter on and on about.

Actually, anything to do with vaping fuels the fire for the ANTZ. You're doing fine.

 

[lexic]

Nothing against you lexic, or any former smokers who find enjoyment in vaping. The problem arises with the opponents of vaping in their claims that vaping will lead children to start (with nicotine) and then give up vaping and begin smoking. That's their story as bizarre as it is, and what you sometimes read is a reaction to this misinformation, not former smokers, such as yourself....

Okay, pretend I'm a never-smoker. I guess it applies more to them than me. For example, my daughter is an adult (23) who was never a smoker. She told me the other week that she vapes (with nicotine) when she goes out to the bar. I highly doubt she would ever start smoking.

(FWIW, I was never going to start smoking again. I didn't start vaping to not smoke. They are totally different things to me.)

Sorry.. I'm getting way off-topic here. It was just interesting to see the numbers from the survey.

 

[KODIAK (TM)]

"They" [vapers] don't want things regulated as medical quit smoking devices yet "they" insist that vaping is for quitting smoking or harm reduction.

I'm with your logic Lex but if the vaping industry becomes associated with tobacco cessation products it will fall under the purview of the FDA. Federal Regulation under their guise of "protection" and safety can only hinder or even prevent our ability to do what we do, the way we chose to do it.

"They" see non-smokers who vape as fuel for the "ANTZ". Why?

Because promoting any kind of a chemical addiction where one didn't previously exist just doesn't make sense. This is a battle nobody will win. Now, if this were about nicotine-free juice well, I'm ok with that personally but remember... it still looks like "smoking" and nobody will win that one either.

 

[lexic]

lexic, maybe it's because I'm a Rottweiler person too ... but I see nothing wrong with you, or any other smoker-that-had-quit-for-years taking up vaping. I'm assuming you use an e-liquid that has nicotine. Of course, I don't view nicotine as a demon drug the way it's been portrayed for so many decades due to its association with smoking. Thanks to becoming aware of research that has looked at just nicotine without all the other junk that is packed into conventional cigarettes, I see nicotine itself to be a good thing for me. So, anyway... with or without nicotine in your e-liquid, if you enjoy vaping, I say good for you!

When we point with glee to how experimentally trying an e-cig does not seem to *cause* non-smokers to want to vape or take up smoking, we're just pointing out how little there is to worry about the so-called "gateway" effect that the ANTZ natter on and on about.

Actually, anything to do with vaping fuels the fire for the ANTZ. You're doing fine.

Lou is a Bernese Mountain Dog x Golden Retriever mix.

Yes, I'm a nicotine user. That is why I started vaping. It helps with my OCD and I think it a safer solution than pharmaceuticals.

 

[Kent C]

lexic

Some of what you may have experienced comes from way back (before we knew what ANTZ were) in this forum when we'd have kids (18-mid 20's) come on and post that they didn't smoke but wanted to know about ecigarettes. A common reaction was for some to discourage them (some rather emphatically) about getting hooked on nicotine. In fact, many mods just banned them from posting at all. I could show you some of threads but you get the idea.

I, for one, wasn't part of that 'discouraging group', but I wasn't 'encouraging' either. I've always thought that at some point - it isn't always age, that a person can choose for themselves. I've know many ex-smokers who have quit long ago and will say they still 'want' a cigarette. I understand that. And again, although I might not suggest ecigarettes to them, I wouldn't discourage them if that's what they wanted to do.

To me, those 'discouragers' are no different than some of the ANTZ - where they know what's good for you. I avoid those people....

 

[Bob Chill]

I have 4 children (2 are 17 now) and i personally don't care if any of them choose to use nicotine in any form other than smoking. Not a fan of dipping but I won't lose much sleep over that either. Snus won't be a hard sell. Nicotine is the least of my worries in raising my kids. I'm pretty certain that none will ever be smokers and if one stumbles I will steer them in the right direction. It's my job anyway. Not anyone else's.

There are exponentially worse vices and habits than vaping running rampant in everyday life. If someone finds pleasure in it then enjoy regardless of your previous status as far as I'm concerned. Life is too short to get hung up on relatively benign issues.

 

[Nate760]

Because promoting any kind of a chemical addiction where one didn't previously exist just doesn't make sense.

With respect, there are two things I feel compelled to point out:

1) This isn't an entirely proper use of the word "addiction." Addiction means the compulsive repetition of a behavior despite the behavior resulting in demonstrable harm. Since smoking causes demonstrable harm to nearly everyone who does it on a daily basis for an appreciable length of time, it is perfectly accurate to call smoking an addiction. However, addiction and dependence are not the same thing. Dependence simply means you'll have withdrawal symptoms if you discontinue intake of something. Countless millions of people are physiologically dependent on coffee, tea or energy drinks, but aren't doing themselves any harm provided their intake is not unusually excessive. Similarly, it's possible to be dependent on nicotine without doing one's self any harm, so long as the delivery system doesn't involve tobacco.

2) Nicotine dependence has never been observed in any individual who never used tobacco. Numerous clinical trials have attempted to induce it, but even when never-smokers are given high doses on a daily basis for six months or more (using gums, patches, inhalers, or some combination thereof), withdrawal symptoms have never been observed in any subject on the cessation of nicotine intake. Hence, the main reason we shouldn't be concerned about non-smokers becoming nicotine-dependent through the use of e-cigs is because there's no scientific reason to believe it's even possible.