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The Ultimate TCR List

Discussion in 'Temperature Control' started by Jalcide, Dec 22, 2015.

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  1. aldenf

    aldenf Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 26, 2014
    NYC, NJ, USA
    I guess the question I would ask is, why would Joytech manufacture a 316 SS coil head not appropriate for use in their own devices' SS316 TC mode? :confused:
     
  2. Mactavish

    Mactavish Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 19, 2010
    New York
    I have no issues so far in TC mode with their SS COILS, they work ok with their mods own built in SS setting, just interested in the obvious TCR mis-match issue.
     
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  3. athkatla

    athkatla Full Member

    Aug 12, 2014
    Greece
    They probably use a cheap SS alloy for their ready coilheads
     
  4. Lo zio

    Lo zio Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 4, 2012
    Italy
    I have no idea, to speak the truth, I do not own a Cubis and do not intend to get one, I was reading everywhere of troubles in TC, on Joyetech mods or not.
    The reason being it's not just an SS coil, it has Ni legs. That's it, don't have much to add.
    Why they build their coils like this is the big question, and I have no answer, unfortunately.
     
  5. KenD

    KenD Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 20, 2013
    Stockholm, Sweden
    It does work perfectly for me in tc though, weirdly enough.

    Sent from my M7_PLUS using Tapatalk
     
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  6. Tommy-Chi

    Tommy-Chi Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 9, 2015
    Chitown
    Is this document stickied on ECF? It probably should be....
     
  7. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 1, 2012
    USA
    NR-R-NR coils made of SS 316L and Ni200 legs works the same in TC as does solid 316L on my VTC Mini as well as my Presa 75 and 100. The Ni legs- after the coil is made and attached to an atty- amounts to only a small fraction of the total wire. These are NR-R-NR wires of my own making- so I know w/o a doubt what the components really are.

    I wonder if the legs of all store bought NR-R-NR coils are actually Ni legs or if they're Kanthal or NiCr.
     
  8. RandyF

    RandyF Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 1, 2013
    Arizona
    Okay, I'm new to the whole TCR settings, but I think I have the gist of it.

    I have a Eleaf Pico and I am using SS 316L purchased from Temco. I do a simple build, spaced 6wrap 2.5ID, I vape it at 440F @ 40 watts. I started playing with the TCR values based on the info from the OP...0088/0092. That was a very weak vape. The SS setting on the Pico was pretty satisfying, so I adjusted the TCR settings until I matched it; I ended up at 0120.

    My question is, what does this mean? using a TCR of 0120, or the SS preset which is obviously somewhere in that neighborhood, am I limiting the temp correctly?
     
  9. Mactavish

    Mactavish Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 19, 2010
    New York
    Scroll to the top of this thread page and you'll see I've brought this subject up, here and on the Evole forum. There is a definitive TCR mismatch on both Pico and Evic Mini's, when using their built in SS setting versus the know TCR's of SS. Most SS TCR's for SS are 88-92. Someone wrote that they found some non resistance wires being used on the SS .5 ohm coils, I will soon be tearing one apart to see for myself. I took a .6 ohm coil apart that came with my AIO, and there were NO extra NR wires apparent. So you are seeing and experiencing exactly what I've been seeing for awhile.
     
  10. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 1, 2012
    USA
    The short answer is yes. My thoughts are, if the mod's default SS setting is giving you a good vape experience- w/o needing to use extra high or low temperature settings- you're golden. (I use anywhere from 380 to 440, depending on the variables.) While vaping you should see the screen alternate from showing the temp and the 'Temp Prorection' message, this shows you the mod is functioning as designed.
     
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  11. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 1, 2012
    USA
    From Joyetech's "How To Use TC" PDF:

    TCR setting for SS (303, 304, 316, 317) is 80-200. So from this one might infer they're using a different way to calculate TCR. I don't know this as fact, nor does it take the myriad variables into account. But the bottom line for ME is, I do not get overly concerned by what the exact TCR number is- as long as it isn't extreme at either end, and temp protection is kicking in during a vape, and I'm getting a good overall vape- it's all good.
     
  12. Mactavish

    Mactavish Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 19, 2010
    New York
    They are clueless. TCR is TCR. Most of the Stainless Steel wires are close in TCR. If you roll your own Titaium wires as I do mostly, the TCR presets on the mods I mentioned are very close and accurate, NOT their SS preset. If you make your own SS coils then use the proper SS TCR. But as I have found if you use their prebuilt SS coils, you'll only get decent vapor using the mods SS preset, they don't match up, no matter what anyone posts here. I've checked this on a $200 VS DNA200, using SteamEngine numbers that are constant across all mods, as its MATH. Since there has been no accurate response to this question, and I've spent far too much time writing about it here and elsewhere, I use their preset when using their pre-made coils, and use the proper SS TCR when using my more accurate mods.

    If you don't care about the science or the math, then certainly go with the saying "it's all good".
     
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  13. RandyF

    RandyF Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 1, 2013
    Arizona
    I understand where you are coming from.....but......

    If the Pico is basing the temp control of SS with a TCR of 120 (which, if I understand correctly you are basically telling the device what wire it is manually), that should actually be 88-92, then is it actually controlling the temp correctly? My line of thinking is; if I was using TC with Ni and my coil was .12Ω, but I did something wrong, like re-attaching it warm, and the device read .30Ω, then the device would not be controlling the temp correctly since the it's baseline is wrong.

    Do the same rules apply if the base TCR is wrong as it would if it the base ohm reading was wrong?
     
  14. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 1, 2012
    USA
    You say "TC is TC" but your OWN statements/observations say otherwise. I have a Presa 75, a Presa 100 and a VTC Mini that use similar boards so I will only mention these three. EVERY ONE OF THEM vape great in their respective SS default setting. Perfect. I have never used a premade head for TC (or watt mode for that matter) so I cannot comment on them per se, other than to say NR tails have zero effect on TCR settings on the NR-R-NR wires I make myself.

    I savvy science and math just fine, thanks. But at some point you will realize (or not) that what's REALLY important is the vape quality/experience. If the numbers not making sense to you, or that they all don't align as you think they should and this ruins your experience, then unfortunately that's on you.

    Alternatively, if you feel the mod(s) are faulty, send them back.
     
  15. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 1, 2012
    USA
    @RandyF while I stand by what I said above, I don't have a Pico, only the TC mods I mentioned above as well as Smok TC mods. Maybe P Busardo and/or DJLsb Vapes can better answer your concerns. Both of these online reviewers use graphics to show actual output vs. settings, etc. Maybe thay will helpo you determine where the problem lies.
     
  16. RandyF

    RandyF Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 1, 2013
    Arizona
    No worries, I am just trying to get a better understanding of the functionality of TCR. I will just wait for Evolv to come out with a reasonable TC device that does SS. I don't need 200 watts to vape at 40 or 50....lol.
     
  17. Mactavish

    Mactavish Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 19, 2010
    New York
    Indeed, you can Vape SS at TCR 120, or 2000 if you like. If the discussion is about accuracy, it's not a debate, I've done my homework.

    BTW: I have written both the reviewers you mentioned, especially DJLsb vapes, since he did an extensive review on Pico mod on YouTube, left it in his comments section, no response. Have written him twice now, once on his website. I don't really care, the results are the facts.
     
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  18. Wingsfan0310

    Wingsfan0310 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 2, 2013
    Flat Rock, MI, USA
    If you use a higher TCR you will get a warmer vape. Back when mods only had built in Ni200 support, people would use that for Ti01 but have to lower the temperature to compensate for using the higher TCR of Ni200 on Ti coils. Not sure if that helps or not.

    Edit I've been using SS430 with the recommended TCR with great results. I think SS316 is right on the low edge of what our mods can accurately TC. Because of this I've found 316 can be finicky in TC, that's why I switched.

    Cheers,
    Steve
     
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  19. Mactavish

    Mactavish Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 19, 2010
    New York
    There are Evolv 75 watt versions out now, more to come. And you instincts are correct, a SS TCR 120, would run hot, and the presets on the mods mentioned do work, wether or not they are proper. If you like the results, look no further.
     
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  20. cobalt327

    cobalt327 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 1, 2012
    USA
    Again- MY opinion is that too much emphasis is being placed on the difference between holy grail TCR numbers, as opposed to the (arbirtary?) numbers used by mod makers. There's absolutely no reason a mod cannot have a different number that in actuality represents the holy grail number- w/o actually being the HG number. And no reason the mod would not be just as accurate in TC. Just by looking at the Joyetech numbers they give for SS/TC, you can readily see there's a lot of wiggle room, possibly because the variations and tolerance stacking seen w/mass produced goods. It is also my opinion that there's a good chance a prefab coil head could be made from materials other than what's listed- causing problems of their own.

    FWIW there are several different mods/mod manufacturers that are also being questioned as to why the numbers don't always jibe w/the HG numbers. So it's not just the low-end mods costing ~$30.00 delivered from China. I haven't bothered to see if there's any relationship between boards, or whatever, but for a device costing as little as many of these do (even the high-end mods use boards slammed out by the thousands and cost next to nothing), it's a wonder they work as well as they do.
     
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