The Womper Woom OR You Might Be A Modwomper

[Fuzzy Thunderbear]

The problem is if the wick goes dry, that Ni or Ti coil will go red hot instantly at 30W!

With me, that will never happen, as I am constantly monitoring my juice level and never use a tank I cannot see through.

there is so much misinformation surrounding TC and the wire involved it is sad.

Thank you, Woof for putting that to rest! Lannie, did you read his post? If not, just go back two posts from here. (she's worried about me)

Now, if I am using 30W (or less) for 2-3 seconds, that ain't gonna hit 600 *F. Right?

Seems terrible to quote myself, but this was part of the original question and I might have found my own answer: Here's the results of an experiment I did tonight. I finally managed to get Lannie's weirded out Ijoy Solo mini into TC mode (tread with caution with this mod because they think TC means Taste Control, and temp control is called Ni/Ti mode in their Chinglish destruction booklet). Anyhoo... I was cranking the temp up and down with a 0.4 Ti coil. At 450 *F setting, which is 3/4 of their supposed max (it goes up to 600), the wattage it used to get to 450 was 35W (according to the display). The 450 temp is a little warm for my tootle-womper tongue and I managed fire times of only 1.9 to 2.2 seconds before it seemed too hot (that, of course, assumes their display to be accurate, which I already know defies Ohm's Law no matter which way you use it). Bear in mind, I am not a cloud chucker and most likely I will never get into the 100+ Watt domain. So, with what Woofer just said above and what I have just discovered, it "should" be perfectly safe to tootle puff Ni and Ti coils in VW mode (as long as you keep an eye on your juice level).

Clarification note: I would never have bought Ni and Ti coils in the first place, but that's what came with the darn tank (eGo ONE Mega) and I wanted to use them. Now, I have a small roll of SS wire... should I even bother to use it if TC is not going to be an ongoing thing for me? Or should I use it to mend fences?

 

[TrollDragon]

Seems terrible to quote myself, but this was part of the original question and I might have found my own answer: Here's the results of an experiment I did tonight. I finally managed to get Lannie's weirded out Ijoy Solo mini into TC mode (tread with caution with this mod because they think TC means Taste Control, and temp control is called Ni/Ti mode in their Chinglish destruction booklet). Anyhoo... I was cranking the temp up and down with a 0.4 Ti coil. At 450 *F setting, which is 3/4 of their supposed max (it goes up to 600), the wattage it used to get to 450 was 35W (according to the display). The 450 temp is a little warm for my tootle-womper tongue and I managed fire times of only 1.9 to 2.2 seconds before it seemed too hot (that, of course, assumes their display to be accurate, which I already know defies Ohm's Law no matter which way you use it). Bear in mind, I am not a cloud chucker and most likely I will never get into the 100+ Watt domain. So, with what Woofer just said above and what I have just discovered, it "should" be perfectly safe to tootle puff Ni and Ti coils in VW mode (as long as you keep an eye on your juice level).

Clarification note: I would never have bought Ni and Ti coils in the first place, but that's what came with the darn tank (eGo ONE Mega) and I wanted to use them. Now, I have a small roll of SS wire... should I even bother to use it if TC is not going to be an ongoing thing for me? Or should I use it to mend fences?

If 450 is too hot then turn the temperature down to 420 or 400. Ignore whatever wattage it uses and just set the desired temperate to what you want. I had a look at the Solo Mini manual and it looks a little confusing to get it into Ni/Ti mode without having one to try. Otherwise it should be easy enough once you do it a few times.

I would try the Ni/Ti coils on the iStick first as it is quite east to switch into TC mod, lock the base resistance of the cold coil, set your temp and vape.

The SS wire can be used in TC or VW mode, coils can be contact or spaced and it can be dry burned unlike the Ni/Ti coils.

 

[Fuzzy Thunderbear]

If 450 is too hot then turn the temperature down to 420 or 400.

Thanks for that feedback TD.

I guess I am not doing too good of a job of stating my REAL intent: "Can one tootle puff a Ti or Ni coil without the fear of all the BS about those coils killing you?" My preferred TC temp is 370F on my iStick, which has the same flavor as 400F on the Solo, but I varied it up and down to try to find what Watts the unit claimed because I did first try it on my iStick TC40 and its display claims 40W no matter what temp I set. That's why I went to the Solo because it [supposedly] displayed actual Watts being used to achieve the set temperature (if one can trust that display). Likely I will not use more than 35W max in VW mode - much more likely to be at only 20W - when playing with this tank and coils, so I ran the Solo up and down until I hit the max Wattage I am likely to never exceed, which turned out to be 450F (well below the supposed safety limit for Ti coils). The reason for all this is that most of my mods do not have TC modes and I don't want this tank restricted to ONLY those mods that have TC function. Now I know that I am safe as long as I stay below a certain Wattage and a certain fire time.

Did that make more sense?

 

[TrollDragon]

Take the cuboid for example. If I put that 20g SS316L 0.15 ohm coil on it and set the settings at 460F/20W. It would take the whole 10s vape time limit to get that chunk of SS316 up to 450F, so I would set the power to 80W and the coil comes up to temp almost instantly. The cuboid will throttle back the power to maintain the temperature I have set.

If I used 28g SS430 instead of the 20g, I could still leave the power at 80W as the smaller coil would come up temperature much faster and the chip would throttle sooner.

None of these mods actually measure the temperature of the coil, they use the TCR value of the wire you are using. That is why you lock the resistance of the cold coil to set the baseline. For example, a 1 ohm Ni200 coil at 68F will measure 2 ohms at 400F, 2.2 at 420F, 2.4 at 440F and so on. The mod measures the resistance and converts it to a temperature reading for us using the TCR value of the wire.

If the baseline resistance or TCR value is set wrong then the reported Temperature will be wrong as well. With resistance changes in the hundredths making a difference you really need good solid connections for TC.

 

[Fuzzy Thunderbear]

With resistance changes in the hundredths making a difference you really need good solid connections for TC.

Is that the reason, then, why the Solo's display of Ohms, Volts, Amps, and Watts doesn't even come close to complying with the simple math of Ohm's Law?

 

[TrollDragon]

Thanks for that feedback TD.

I guess I am not doing too good of a job of stating my REAL intent: "Can one tootle puff a Ti or Ni coil without the fear of all the BS about those coils killing you?" My preferred TC temp is 370F on my iStick, which has the same flavor as 400F on the Solo, but I varied it up and down to try to find what Watts the unit claimed because I did first try it on my iStick TC40 and its display claims 40W no matter what temp I set. That's why I went to the Solo because it [supposedly] displayed actual Watts being used to achieve the set temperature (if one can trust that display). Likely I will not use more than 35W max in VW mode - much more likely to be at only 20W - when playing with this tank and coils, so I ran the Solo up and down until I hit the max Wattage I am likely to never exceed, which turned out to be 450F (well below the supposed safety limit for Ti coils). The reason for all this is that most of my mods do not have TC modes and I don't want this tank restricted to ONLY those mods that have TC function. Now I know that I am safe as long as I stay below a certain Wattage and a certain fire time.

Did that make more sense?

People build Clapton coils all the time out of Ti/Ni/Kanthal mixes and use them on a dripper with a mech mod, you just have to be very diligent about NOT getting these coils red hot. I have had a Ti and Ni coil melt on me in a regulated TC mod and it happened in a split second. I had just touched the fire button, the coil sagged and one loop touched ground. Instant red hot and that section of wire was gone. I wasn't paying proper attention when I installed that coil so it was a major contributor to the error, happened way too fast for my liking.

That happened to me in TC mode so it can very easily happen in VW mode. Like I say you have to be very diligent using Ni/Ti coils in VW mode, personally I would not bother. Switching to SS was the best thing I did for my coils, if the mod falls out of TC and goes into power mode like some can, the SS coil will still work fine. It might be a little hotter than you like if that happens but you wont have vaporized metal on your inhale.

Just my 2 cents on the whole thing, you could vape 50 coils without incident, then you get that one coil, it was poorly made on a Friday by Ling Lee... It wouldn't kill you or make you deathly sick, but I bet it would give you quite a little scare and the use of Ni/Ti coils in VW mode would probably cease.

 

[USMCotaku]

Thanks for that feedback TD.

I guess I am not doing too good of a job of stating my REAL intent: "Can one tootle puff a Ti or Ni coil without the fear of all the BS about those coils killing you?" My preferred TC temp is 370F on my iStick, which has the same flavor as 400F on the Solo, but I varied it up and down to try to find what Watts the unit claimed because I did first try it on my iStick TC40 and its display claims 40W no matter what temp I set. That's why I went to the Solo because it [supposedly] displayed actual Watts being used to achieve the set temperature (if one can trust that display). Likely I will not use more than 35W max in VW mode - much more likely to be at only 20W - when playing with this tank and coils, so I ran the Solo up and down until I hit the max Wattage I am likely to never exceed, which turned out to be 450F (well below the supposed safety limit for Ti coils). The reason for all this is that most of my mods do not have TC modes and I don't want this tank restricted to ONLY those mods that have TC function. Now I know that I am safe as long as I stay below a certain Wattage and a certain fire time.

Did that make more sense?

what you are seeing on the display of those mods is the INITIAL wattage used to reach temp....if you use a mod with a live wattage display, and watch it while vaping, you will see that the wattage used to maintain that temperature during your draw (once it is reached) is OFTEN as low as 1 watt. The problem with VW modes, is it KEEPS APPLYING the same wattage to the coil....which means the coil keeps getting hotter as the draw goes on...specialy since the juice is vaping off of the wick. Have you NEVER had a dry hit? The point was there is possibility of harmful stuff forming at high temps with those wires.....dry hits will be the time those high temps are reached...why chance it?
On that note....SS wire isn't known to form those toxic byproducts...at least not at any temp you will be reaching on your mod. I use SS on VW and mech mods all the time...some claim it gives them a cleaner flavor then kanthal.

 

[TrollDragon]

Is that the reason, then, why the Solo's display of Ohms, Volts, Amps, and Watts doesn't even come close to complying with the simple math of Ohm's Law?

It could very well be, I would think that the values should be fairly accurate in normal VW mode with a Kanthal built topper.

All chips have there little quirks, the two Hanna DNA30 clone boards I have measure everything .2 ohms higher than normal. I get different resistance readings between my iPV D2's (different hardware versions), the Cuboid and the Mini Volt. It can be value rounding like on my iPV 2S or even a .5 ohm difference like on the Cuboid (sometimes), all these mods are a little spooky in my opinion, but that is what you get on sub $50, Chinese mass produced hardware.

 

[Woofer]

The point was there is possibility of harmful stuff forming at high temps with those wires...

I would love to see one piece of credible data to support that. I've looked...

 

[USMCotaku]

The credible data would be I have had powders from on those wire types. This was on the tester sample of the Evic VT, which had some early bugs with TC working if all factors weren't perfect. So I would always dry fire my coils IN tc mode, to make sure it would work as it should....usually it would, but every so often a coil wouldn't....and it would INSTANTLY turn bright orange hot.....and as soon as the coil cooled down, it was coated in powdery substance....the stuff they tell us not to vape.

Now I don't know about you, but me personally? I would rather not risk it...sure, vaping is safer then smoking on any account....but that is no reason to not make it as safe as it can be any ways.

 

[Shawn Hoefer]

No. Just no. Do not use Ti or Ni as the coil* outside of TC (temperature control, not taste control which is reserved for tuning a Kanthal vape)) mode. There is no misinformation or disinformation. If you're going to use wattage mode, use Kanthal, Nichrome, or Stainless Steel.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

 

[Fuzzy Thunderbear]

Have you NEVER had a dry hit?

That's is correct, Cody - NEVER! But I am also not a high Watts person and, so far, all my coils have been factory made. We are only just now contemplating winding our own, but even that ain't gonna happen in my tootle puffer tanks (e.g., Protank-II uses such a small atomizer that my arthritic hands ain't makin' and installin' nothing in there). I am playing with sub-Ohm tanks now that are big enough for me to coil them (eventually), but I still use them at relatively low wattages.

 

[Woofer]

Your experience is anecdotal. (Based on casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis) I looked hard for hard data and found none. I have asked many to provide hard data and none have done so to date.

I don't assume any wire is completely safe and am puzzled by the concern over Ni and Ti and the lack of concern about Kanthal, Nichrome, and Stainless.

Personally after studying this I am more concerned about the amount of silicon inhaled on a day at the beach then I am about toxic wire. YMMV

 

[Debadoo]

@Debadoo Hope you have a lovely time and nice to see you back safely. x
@Atchafalaya Now you can arrange a tea party
@Lannie I may have a new juice for you to try soon Something that is out of this world

Jup can't wait for the Tea Party!!

Nice to be back, needed to sort my head out and chill out a bit, feeling much better, missed you all

well if you were gone.......I'm glad it was at the same time I was gone! And glad you're back!!

Brought my scale to Debadoo's and it wasn't good enough. May splurge and get the good one next month.

Can't wait til our next play date now that I'm home (as of Mon night) we gotta have a tea party.......make coils.......make more juice if ya get the other kind of scale. Yours was fine for a food scale, just didn't go less than 1 gram increments.

Rain just started, and from what I hear, Tx was hit hard while I was gone...... especially Houston. sooooooo glad to be back........I missed y'all!!! So sorry I wasn't able to meet up with LJ, it was so crazy busy cuz we tried to pack in as much as we possibly could.
Here are a couple pics

This is when they were bringing us back down to be dipped in the water

perspective on height. About 450 feet up but it didn't seem that way at all

on the boat loved it!!!

living up fully to my reputation!! I whacked em all!! hehehe Thus my new avatar!

 

[USMCotaku]

That's is correct, Cody - NEVER! But I am also not a high Watts person and, so far, all my coils have been factory made. We are only just now contemplating winding our own, but even that ain't gonna happen in my tootle puffer tanks (e.g., Protank-II uses such a small atomizer that my arthritic hands ain't makin' and installin' nothing in there). I am playing with sub-Ohm tanks now that are big enough for me to coil them (eventually), but I still use them at relatively low wattages.

you my friend have been extremely lucky......I used to get far more dry hits from pre made coils then self made ones

 

[USMCotaku]

Jup can't wait for the Tea Party!!


well if you were gone.......I'm glad it was at the same time I was gone! And glad you're back!!


Can't wait til our next play date now that I'm home (as of Mon night) we gotta have a tea party.......make coils.......make more juice if ya get the other kind of scale. Yours was fine for a food scale, just didn't go less than 1 gram increments.

Rain just started, and from what I hear, Tx was hit hard while I was gone...... especially Houston. sooooooo glad to be back........I missed y'all!!! So sorry I wasn't able to meet up with LJ, it was so crazy busy cuz we tried to pack in as much as we possibly could.
Here are a couple pics
View attachment 549607
This is when they were bringing us back down to be dipped in the water

View attachment 549608
perspective on height. About 450 feet up but it didn't seem that way at all

View attachment 549609
on the boat loved it!!!

View attachment 549610
living up fully to my reputation!! I whacked em all!! hehehe Thus my new avatar!

HA! nice avatar

 

[Woofer]

living up fully to my reputation!! I whacked em all!! hehehe Thus my new avatar!

Love your new avatar!


she made me say that

 

[Debadoo]

lol thanks y'all........that was taken by and suggested by one of the guys on the odyssey believe it or not

 

[USMCotaku]

Your experience is anecdotal. (Based on casual observations or indications rather than rigorous or scientific analysis) I looked hard for hard data and found none. I have asked many to provide hard data and none have done so to date.

I don't assume any wire is completely safe and am puzzled by the concern over Ni and Ti and the lack of concern about Kanthal, Nichrome, and Stainless.

Personally after studying this I am more concerned about the amount of silicon inhaled on a day at the beach then I am about toxic wire. YMMV

Anecdote or not...anytime a wire type produces a powdery substance under certain conditions...I am not going to subject that wire to those conditions. I don't discourage the use of Ni wire in vaping, as I don't buy into the whole "leeching metal" thing...I am not to concerned about the base metal itself (it can be found in some percentage in much of the wire used to vape), but the stuff that can form on it. Since I have personally seen strange powdery substances form on it, I find it is best to leave it where such shouldn't happen..in TC. I have NEVER heard someone say, "boy, I sure wish I had been more sorry then safe"

 

[Rixsta]

Jup can't wait for the Tea Party!!


well if you were gone.......I'm glad it was at the same time I was gone! And glad you're back!!


Can't wait til our next play date now that I'm home (as of Mon night) we gotta have a tea party.......make coils.......make more juice if ya get the other kind of scale. Yours was fine for a food scale, just didn't go less than 1 gram increments.

Rain just started, and from what I hear, Tx was hit hard while I was gone...... especially Houston. sooooooo glad to be back........I missed y'all!!! So sorry I wasn't able to meet up with LJ, it was so crazy busy cuz we tried to pack in as much as we possibly could.
Here are a couple pics
View attachment 549607
This is when they were bringing us back down to be dipped in the water

View attachment 549608
perspective on height. About 450 feet up but it didn't seem that way at all

View attachment 549609
on the boat loved it!!!

View attachment 549610
living up fully to my reputation!! I whacked em all!! hehehe Thus my new avatar!

(((((((Debadoo))))))
Missed you and great pics, I am scared of heights so congrats to you, I wish I would of done it when I was in the Dominican but I chickened out, I regret that now. Your never far away from that frying pan are you ha, anyway, I'm glad you had a wonderful time and it's nice to have you back xx
I forgot to ask but did you try that Cabin boys breakfast juice ? It might not be to everyone's taste but I love it, I need another big bottle of it.

I used to get far more dry hits from pre made coils then self made ones

I can second this