Is it me, or does this WGBH NEWS article below disparage vaping?
re: Youth Smoking Decline Stalls, And Vaping May Be To Blame
re: Youth Smoking Decline Stalls, And Vaping May Be To Blame
There you go again, linking vaping negatively with smoking
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I’d like to see that study that shows teen smoking flattening out. It’s not linked, unfortunately.
The devil is always in the details with these things.
What exact question was asked?
How did they search for participants?
Basically everything that matters in a standard political poll.
If they counted both smoking and vaping as “smoking” for example which is the kind of conflation I’ve come to expect from anti-vaping studies, then the entire conclusion of the article is BS.
The devil is always in the details with these things.
What exact question was asked?
How did they search for participants?
Basically everything that matters in a standard political poll.
If they counted both smoking and vaping as “smoking” for example which is the kind of conflation I’ve come to expect from anti-vaping studies, then the entire conclusion of the article is BS.
Teen smoking has flattened out, it is the lowest it's ever been.
*"Based on the partially released data, I calculated frequent use of ecigs to be 3.6% of all students (where frequent use was 20 days or more in the month). The figure was 1.4% two years ago. Frequent cigarette smoking went from 1.8% to 1.2% over the same period" *Post courtesy of Jay Pieski on Twitter.
The CDC is hiding the daily use stats. They simply are omitting what the numbers really say as to how many kids use ecigs daily. That number is quite low. Kids who use ecigs everyday are trying to quit smoking but you won't here that from them. It doesn't serve their
agenda.
C.B.
* Thank you to Jay Pieski and all those who continue to advocate ardently for vapers.
*"Based on the partially released data, I calculated frequent use of ecigs to be 3.6% of all students (where frequent use was 20 days or more in the month). The figure was 1.4% two years ago. Frequent cigarette smoking went from 1.8% to 1.2% over the same period" *Post courtesy of Jay Pieski on Twitter.
The CDC is hiding the daily use stats. They simply are omitting what the numbers really say as to how many kids use ecigs daily. That number is quite low. Kids who use ecigs everyday are trying to quit smoking but you won't here that from them. It doesn't serve their
agenda. C.B.
* Thank you to Jay Pieski and all those who continue to advocate ardently for vapers.
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You might just be overly sensitive if you think the article is disparaging.
It even warns not to jump to conclusions:
We benefit from research and level headed reporting of research. It seems we get upset any time vaping is mentioned with anything less than a claim that it gives you the power of Thor. And it seems we think that vaping gives us expert knowledge of organic chemistry and human physiology etc. Lets be level headed and maybe non-vapers will take us seriously. We don't need any more "Vape Gods"
This is the philosophy behind the term “the monkey’s chunk”. In which one does something like “divide” an orange by keeping the inside and giving the other person the rind.
I provisionally agree with the concept though it seems a bit overstated. Noticing the often massive holes in anti-vaping pseudoscience though usually doesn’t take expertise though. Simple logic is often enough.
the article is correct reporting as far as it goes. The only question I personally have is about the study itself. And it’s a question, not an accusation. I definitely want to know if it turns out vaping is significantly dangerous. The problem is I’ve seen such massive fraud attempts on the part of anti-vaping activists that I become quite suspicious of any science based stuff involving vaping.
Statistics, which is what this particular study is about, is particularly susceptible to machinations and needs to be looked at extra carefully
Skepticism is an important part of science. A little skepticism can be healthy. But unfortunately, a lot of folks seek the answers that they want to hear. And that typically leads them to poor sources. I read false statements from regular people all over the internet every day. Some of it is just people misunderstanding. But some of it is pure fiction. If posts on the internet (not just forums but blogs, Youtube, or any place where people comment) were tested and reviewed as rigorously as scientific research then most of it would need to be deleted --haha!
I've only read the linked news article. I haven't read the research and can't comment on it until I do, of course. If you have a link, I might take a look but I must admit that surveys are not particularly of interest. I'm more interested in science.
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Sadly we don't get much "level headed reporting or studies" that actually tell the truth.
C.B.
Even more reason to enjoy it when it we do get it.
Advocates of vaping should like this quote from the news report: "E-cigarettes are generally considered better than cigarettes for adults who are already addicted to nicotine. "
Surveys are science. And like other forms of science they can be manipulated by the unscrupulous. A survey is by definition a model. A very large part of other sciences are also based on models. There is a famous quote about models: “all models are by definition wrong, but some of them are useful”. One of the goals of people doing science with models is to find models that are accurate for the section of the world they are interested in. One of the goals of marketing is to find models that produce the results that are most advantageous. The big problem vapers are often seeing and have perhaps become paranoid about is when marketing takes control of the science.
As I stated in my post in the thread, I don’t have it. I would also very much like to. If the model they are using is accurate, so is the article. I am merely pointing out that without it determining how true the claims of the article are is difficult.
Not my kind of science.
If you could all go ahead and define the particular science models you agree with, that'd be great.
It doesn’t work that way.
There are thousands upon thousands, and they’re all useful or not useful for different things. Sometimes when they’re used it’s unknown whether they are accurate or not until later. This is super common with mouse models in biology for example.
A lot of medical science is done with mice because they’re mammals, they have a really short life cycle, and they’re cheap. Often stuff that works on a mouse will work on a human. Lots and lots of important drugs owe their existence to mice.
Sometimes it doesn’t. As a result mouse medicine is amazing. They can cure paralysis inducing spinal fractures, double lifespan, all sorts of neat stuff. The problem is it doesn’t always translate to humans.
Cool! My dad was a research entomologist for the USDA specializing in insect tissue culture.
After he died sometimes I would go to the local University library and read papers he wrote to feel closer to him. Weird and morbid, I know.
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Regarding the following paragraph from the linked article (underlining added by me):
"It also found that about 2 in 5 high school students who used a vaping or tobacco product used more than one kind, and that the most common combination was e-cigarettes and cigarettes. Also, about 28 percent of high school e-cigarette users said they vaped 20 or more days in the previous month — nearly a 40 percent jump from the previous year."
They're stating the above findings, as if they're negatives. Maybe I'm missing something here, but to me...they're possibly indicating something else.
Instead of "high school students" or "high school e-cigarette users" in the above...think "adults" and "adult e-cigarette users". Sure sounds like the many adults who post on here that they're dual using (using cigarettes & e-cigarettes) while in the process of gradually switching over totally to vaping! Of course there would be an increase in the % of dual-using adults...who vaped 20 or more days in the previous month. They're vaping more days as they make progress toward getting off the smokes! That sounds like a good thing...not a negative, if they're going to do 1 or the other (smoke or vape).
"It also found that about 2 in 5 high school students who used a vaping or tobacco product used more than one kind, and that the most common combination was e-cigarettes and cigarettes. Also, about 28 percent of high school e-cigarette users said they vaped 20 or more days in the previous month — nearly a 40 percent jump from the previous year."
They're stating the above findings, as if they're negatives. Maybe I'm missing something here, but to me...they're possibly indicating something else.
Instead of "high school students" or "high school e-cigarette users" in the above...think "adults" and "adult e-cigarette users". Sure sounds like the many adults who post on here that they're dual using (using cigarettes & e-cigarettes) while in the process of gradually switching over totally to vaping! Of course there would be an increase in the % of dual-using adults...who vaped 20 or more days in the previous month. They're vaping more days as they make progress toward getting off the smokes! That sounds like a good thing...not a negative, if they're going to do 1 or the other (smoke or vape).
There’s a linked article?! I missed that. Maybe a late edit.
Went back to look and I’m still not seeing it. Could you tell me where you found the link?
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