There you go again, linking vaping negatively with smoking
- Thread starter BrotherBob
- Start date
- th_trl_thread_readers 0
- Status
I was an adult and I was addicted to smoking cigarettes. At this point I'm not convinced that I was addicted to nicotine.
So the sentence you quoted contains two separate arguments. Firstly that (paraphrasing) a majority of some undefined group of people consider that vaping is "better" than smoking. Secondly that nicotine is addictive. The second argument sneaks in under the cover of the first. I'm sure the reporter didn't do it deliberately but you have to stay alert when you read news reports. It's news not science. This is the kind of fuzzy sentence that would be picked apart in any review of a scientific paper.
That quote is "better" than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick, in my expert opinion.
I also have a hard time with the concept of nicotine addiction. Tobacco was addictive for me but vaping nic while pleasant doesnt seem to be addictive for me.
I think it may be a little addictive for some but for others not so much.
Gah. Sorry. I thought he had found the origional CDC paper. Wasn’t paying enough attention. What I get for trying to think at 4am.
Iirc there is a standard method for determining the addictive ness of a substance using pigeons. Very roughly, They provide the substance in a food pellet and count the number of times the bird is willing to peck the button to get the pellet vs a pellet that does not contain the drug.
By that measure nicotine is addictive.
Update: it is possible this may have been done with tobacco not pure nicotine.
Last edited:
ah well! that settles it then. Pigeons for the win.
Its definitely addictive, pigeons said. Rats, mice, theyre wrong in this model.
Perhaps some encouraging news:
FDA COMMISSIONER PRAISES THE WORK OF VAPE SHOPS AND WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO CONTROL YOUTH ACCESS TO TOBACCO
FDA COMMISSIONER PRAISES THE WORK OF VAPE SHOPS AND WHAT THEY ARE DOING TO CONTROL YOUTH ACCESS TO TOBACCO
It’s possible I suppose. The only way to find out is to try it on other models.This may already have been done. I don’t know. Monkeys are popular for later trials. Claiming one is not addicted is a classic behavior of the addicted though which makes things problematic. Some people are less susceptible to addiction for some drugs. I’m pretty sure I’m addicted to nicotine. I have trouble going more than an hour without a vape.
Here's an interesting read on nicotine addiction reports:
If the data contradict the theory, throw out the data: Nicotine addiction in the 2010 report of the Surgeon General
Interesting. Perhaps things need to be looked at again. Part of the problem is a large number of studies have been done on cigarettes, but fewer on specifically nicotine alone.
How long have you been vaping? How much juice per day and what concentration of nic?
Mice and rat models also demonstrate addictive behavior with nicotine. Older studies with poor delivery methods had mixed results. That's been resolved in newer reproducible studies. My suggestion is if you want to independently confirm that is skip Google, it sucks for original biomedical research papers. Go to pubmed itself that maintains the database of just about every journal, with links to the original studies while providing summary paragraphs to help you cut through the chaff.
Mice and rat models also demonstrate addictive behavior with nicotine. Older studies with poor delivery methods had mixed results. That's been resolved in newer reproducible studies. My suggestion is if you want to independently confirm that is skip Google, it sucks for original biomedical research papers. Go to pubmed itself that maintains the database of just about every journal, with links to the original studies while providing summary paragraphs to help you cut through the chaff.
That's a comminatry article, not an original research paper. It's the opinion of the two authors. That's it. And if they choose to only cite other studies that support their contention, well, that's pretty biased. When I see a meta analysis of every published article in the medical literature that demonstrates that the vast majority of studies published show no addictive qualities to nicotine I'll be thrilled to read how I must be crazy that if I vape 0 nic I get cravings.
I would peck the hell out of that button for a shot of caffeine in the morning.
I don't know if I'm addicted to nicotine. I've cut my consumption down a lot which isn't typical in addiction. But if I take it too low I have a problem. There have been suggestions that it takes the smoking cocktail to initiate the addiction, but once it's in place nicotine addiction stays active. I know vaping wasn't enough to satisfy the need when I first started, but now it is.
So it's a complicated picture rather than an either / or. That's why I had a problem with the quote in the original post here.
Vendors are forced by law to state that nicotine is an addictive substance, even selling stuff that doesn't contain nicotine. And all sorts of people repeat it like it's a known fact.
Sorry, referring back to @Jebbn for the personal vape info. I'm truly curious how many vapers here could simply switch to 0 nic and not feel any difference or desire to return to their prior nic containing juice without a slow decrease on concentration over time before reaching that point. If nicotine did not possess addictive properties then anyone should be able to do that right now with no cravings or desires. If there are, great. I'm not one of them and I would he utterly amazed if a majority of vapers here could accomplish that feat.
Yeah. Seen that one around here before. I think part of the problem is as you start titrating down, the percentage of change can increase, and 3% does not seem to be below the threshold of addiction for a lot of people. If/when I need to get off nicotine I’m going to take it really slow personally. After I get down to where I start to have issues I’m going to try a lower percentage reduction. If that number is 3% I’m going to kick it down to 2% or 2.5%
I gotta go to bed. I will get back. I have experimented at different time frames of abstinence from nic. I dont vape nic every week. I dont vape the same mg/ml every week, I change up and down.
I have a good reference point for addiction to tobacco and a good understanding of addiction.
There are vapers here who say they feel no nicotine hit, I feel a nicotine hit clearly even at 2mg and am amazed at posters who say that even at 24mg they feel no hit. I only say that to high light how differently individuals experience nicotine.
There are posters here and on other forums who like me find that nic isnt the draw that tobacco was and can do with out nic for weeks with out any real affect but with tobacco 1hr was a mission to go without.
Similarly I can drink beer or not, I might go 6months of winter without it and then as summer happens and it starts hitting 36c I might have a few. A practicing alcoholic would not switch on and off like that. I think that some people are like alcoholics with nic and others can take it or leave it. I think some dont know that they could take or leave it.
I used to be able to do that when I was young. I’d blow through 3 packs of Luckys and then not smoke again for a month. Can’t do that anymore though.
The general approach for weaning off of a substance you're either dependent on or addicted to is "the lower you get the slower you go". At high dosage a 20-25% decrease might be tolerated. At lower levels going down 10% at a time of THAT dose (not the original) is best tolerated. So if you want to be comfy a drop from 3% to 2.5-2.7% will be easier than say cutting it in half to 1.5%. You smoked for how many decades? And vaped for how many years? Is a slower taper really a bad thing? It's really the best way for most people who want to go nic free. Are there always exceptions to that? Sure. But go with what the average person finds best tolerated, not the individual anecdotal "I was on 12 mg of nic and woke up one morning and decided to stop and felt just fine". Not knocking it, great for them. But it's not gonna work for the majority of vapers. Or smokers for that matter.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
