These people are going to kill themselves

[Bad Ninja]

I guess I don't understand what you meant by "[m]y posts were in response to "these shops are building .3ohm coils for unsuspecting customers ," We all know you have to specifically ask, and PAY EXTRA for the "danger."
I'm guessing that we both think there is some point in which a shop has some liability, but we may disagree exactly where that point should be.

Well sure I do, if they act irresponsibly or misinform in order to make a profit.
I'm very realistic.
If a customer walks into a shop, and plops down a couple hundred buck while demanding the latest overpriced mod and a 5 post RDA custom built with quad vertical coils and cotton wicks all because he saw some cloud chasers on a YouTube video, it's not on the vape shop to take responsibility and the liability for educating them.
You can't fix stupid.
You can't ban everything in life because a few people are foolish and ignorant.
Blanket bans are not the solution to anything, as they celebrate and encourage stupidity, and hinder independent thought.

 

[zoiDman]

...
I'm very realistic.
If a customer walks into a shop, and plops down a couple hundred buck while demanding the latest overpriced mod and a 5 post RDA custom built with quad vertical coils and cotton wicks all because he saw some cloud chasers on a YouTube video, it's not on the vape shop to take responsibility and the liability for educating them.
...

Just curious.

Do you believe that Other Retailers besides B&M Vape Shops are Relinquish from Responsibilities of the products they sell Also?

 

[LDS714]

Well sure I do, if they act irresponsibly or misinform in order to make a profit.
I'm very realistic.
If a customer walks into a shop, and plops down a couple hundred buck while demanding the latest overpriced mod and a 5 post RDA custom built with quad vertical coils and cotton wicks all because he saw some cloud chasers on a YouTube video, it's not on the vape shop to take responsibility and the liability for educating them.
You can't fix stupid.
You can't ban everything in life because a few people are foolish and ignorant.
Blanket bans are not the solution to anything, as they celebrate and encourage stupidity, and hinder independent thought.

Yeah, unfortunately Darwin can succeed when all attempts at reason fail.

I see the same thing all the time in the motorcycling community.

Some guy that "rode a dirt bike" as a kid goes in and plops down 15-20K for a 1000 pound full dress touring bike, then rides straight across the street into a parked car while pulling out of the dealership.

Young dude buys the latest, fastest race replica and high sides himself halfway to the moon because of 'cold tires.'

Someone buys their wife a Sportster for her first bike because "if it ain't a Harley it ain't a motorcycle" and by the time she gets the confidence to ride it on the street (if she ever does) it's got broken levers and a dinged up gas tank from dumping it too many times in the parking lot.

Stupid hurts.

 

[Bosco]

I think it's crazy for a shop to wrap coils for a customer. Not just subohms but any coil. I am personally NOT of the opinion that low ohms is dangerous - but, as a business owner, I wouldn't give a customer ANYTHING that they could potentially hurt themselves with and then blame me for. If a Protank head were to, for some odd reason, blow up then that's on Kanger. But if a shop builds a coil and anything goes wrong then they might be liable. Even if they are not, they still might have to spend $$$ to prove it in court.

California is the birthplace of the frivolous lawsuit so I can't believe the So Cal shops are building coils. Then again, I lived in So Cal for many years so I guess I can see how it happens . .lol (idiots). I could just see some poor, unsuspecting Newport Beach teenager (18, of course) dry burning his coil for 30 seconds and pressing it into his arm and then suing for the burn because there was no warning label that the coil could be hot.

Anyway . .crazy to build coils for somebody else. No real reason to expose yourself to that liability.

 

[Ed_C]

Well sure I do, if they act irresponsibly or misinform in order to make a profit.
I'm very realistic.
If a customer walks into a shop, and plops down a couple hundred buck while demanding the latest overpriced mod and a 5 post RDA custom built with quad vertical coils and cotton wicks all because he saw some cloud chasers on a YouTube video, it's not on the vape shop to take responsibility and the liability for educating them.
You can't fix stupid.
You can't ban everything in life because a few people are foolish and ignorant.
Blanket bans are not the solution to anything, as they celebrate and encourage stupidity, and hinder independent thought.

You just crack me up. Why do you keep insisting on these extreme black and white examples? Do you not recognize that there's a lot of grey in the world? To begin with, if anyone came into my shop and demanded anything, I'd simply show them the door. Stores have a right to refuse service to anyone (discrimination excluded) and that's exactly what I would do, particularly if this person who was making demands of me was clueless. Second, people who lack some information are not stupid, they are uninformed. The people who have the information and then disregard it, those are the stupid people. I might suggest that we differentiate between these two groups. The latter group deserves what they get. The former group deserves a chance to learn what they don't know, hopefully, sometime before they blow a hand off. As far as banning something, where on God's earth did this come from? I would ask you to show me where someone on this thread suggested anything should be banned.

 

[Bad Ninja]

You just crack me up. Why do you keep insisting on these extreme black and white examples? Do you not recognize that there's a lot of grey in the world? To begin with, if anyone came into my shop and demanded anything, I'd simply show them the door. Stores have a right to refuse service to anyone (discrimination excluded) and that's exactly what I would do, particularly if this person who was making demands of me was clueless. Second, people who lack some information are not stupid, they are uninformed. The people who have the information and then disregard it, those are the stupid people. I might suggest that we differentiate between these two groups. The latter group deserves what they get. The former group deserves a chance to learn what they don't know, hopefully, sometime before they blow a hand off. As far as banning something, where on God's earth did this come from? I would ask you to show me where someone on this thread suggested anything should be banned.

Please go read the OP.
It's a black and white question.
I'm always for education and common sense.

Example: if everyone used good manners we would need no laws.


Oh ya....
Does the word "demand" offend you? Crazy business's model you have.
As a business owner, personally I would love for all my customers to demand my product.
Don't be so defensive.
Bad for business.

 

[zoiDman]

Please go read the OP.
It's a black and white question.

...

The Question Asked may be. But the Answer Isn't.

 

[Ed_C]

Please go read the OP.
It's a black and white question.
I'm always for education and common sense.

Example: if everyone used good manners we would need no laws.


Oh ya....
Does the word "demand" offend you? Crazy business's model you have.
As a business owner, personally I would love for all my customers to demand my product.
Don't be so defensive.
Bad for business.

I did read the OP and I wasn't the one who was shocked when I brought up that he was talking about sub-ohm coils, it was you my friend. As far as the word demand, it depends on the context, obviously. Of course I would love for my products to be in demand, but I would rather not have customers storming into my store demanding that I do something. I would rather they were civil. I would hope that you could tell the difference. I guess at least we can agree that, if everyone used good manners we would need no laws. But wouldn't it be good manners to let someone know if they were about to hurt themselves?

 

[stylezuk]

............

"Internet speak can be misinterpreted very easily"

Group hug #VapeOn!

 

[desrever]

I'm from LA but also frequent OC and this is definitely bad trend I'm seeing in many places. I've seen places where the employees just do the 3 wraps everyone is describing here and not even testing the coil or anything. Even worse, they pair them with cheap starter kits comprised of cheap chinese clones parts in 18350 length that are really enticing to newbie cloud chasers who don't have a clue. Liability arguments aside, I think this is just bad for all of us vapers in general. The media is already making a big deal down here about kids and e-cigs. The last thing we as a community need is pipe bombs melting some kid's hand off. The shops really need to be more responsible and educate their customers. The really horrible part is I've been to a few places where the person wrapping the coils obviously doesn't know enough to be doing it at all, let alone for someone else.

 

[TheReign]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/apv-discussion/526685-vapor-too-hot.html


Lol

 

[Bad Ninja]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/apv-discussion/526685-vapor-too-hot.html


Lol

I rest my case.
That vaper is posting deep in the APV section of the largest resource for information on safe vaping in the world.
Literally a click away from pages of information.

Did it occur to that person to read some o the stickies and warnings plastered all over this website before trying to be cool
Like his friend?
Nope.
Every precaution available is expressed here, along with every answer to every question asked in the OP.
When this person disentegrates their battery, is it ECFs fault?
Nope.
A shopkeeper is supposed to prepare to be liable for this level of intentional ignorance?
You can't fix stupid.

 

[TheReign]

Had to share Lol, " My buddy is running .15 on his and, and, and. Lol Who cares what he is running! If you really want to blow yerr face off be my guest, Just don't do it around anyone else so you don't end up getting sued or something Ahhhdooontknowww.

I'm scared with my supernanos at .45 and i'm using sony 30amp and barley use it allot, maybe not scared i guess. Just worried, the possibilities are there that something could happen even though im within the safe part of the threshold.

You never know! and those two kids are going to end up in the hospital if they don't take care of what their doing.. with acid all over their faces an hands... ahhhhh

 

[roguly]

I'm glad this thread has taken off and you guys have built on my original post. Attention should be brought to this issue

My belief is you shouldn't have to worry about other people, but what happens when some vaping "newbie" blows his hand off? The whole vaping community would be affected.

 

[Bad Ninja]

I'm glad this thread has taken off and you guys have built on my original post. Attention should be brought to this issue

My belief is you shouldn't have to worry about other people, but what happens when some vaping "newbie" blows his hand off? The whole vaping community would be affected.

I've been very vocal and " over the top" a bit to make a point as well.
We should all promote safety and education, but we should devote just as much energy to deny ignorance and the whole "pass the blame" mentality.
If we don't nip it in the bud , ridiculous issues like this will pop up over and over.
When the first reaction to someone paying for the chance to be stupid is to blame another party, something is terribly wrong with a community.

Vape, no,.. LIVE with common sense.

 

[zoiDman]

I rest my case.
That vaper is posting deep in the APV section of the largest resource for information on safe vaping in the world.
Literally a click away from pages of information.

Did it occur to that person to read some o the stickies and warnings plastered all over this website before trying to be cool
Like his friend?
Nope.
Every precaution available is expressed here, along with every answer to every question asked in the OP.
When this person disentegrates their battery, is it ECFs fault?
Nope.
A shopkeeper is supposed to prepare to be liable for this level of intentional ignorance?
You can't fix stupid.

Just curious.

Do you believe that Other Retailers besides B&M Vape Shops are Relinquish from Responsibilities of the products they sell Also?

 

[Bad Ninja]

Just curious.

Do you believe that Other Retailers besides B&M Vape Shops are Relinquish from Responsibilities of the products they sell Also?

I never used those words, or implied anything like that broad statement.

If that's what you got from my posts, I would encourage you to start on page one and read them in context.

Your statement couldn't be farther from my opinion. That doesn't admonish the customer from being responsible for their actions.

 

[zoiDman]

I never used those words, or implied anything like that broad statement.

If that's what you got from my posts, I would encourage you to start on page one and read them in context.

Your statement couldn't be farther from my opinion. That doesn't admonish the customer from being responsible for their actions.

So are you saying Now that the Seller has some Responsibility?

Or are you saying that Buyers Still have 100% of the Responsibility, but only in Vape Shops?

 

[Bad Ninja]

So are you saying Now that the Seller has some Responsibility?

Or are you saying that Buyers Still have 100% of the Responsibility, but only in Vape Shops?

Really?
Amazing.
I refuse to repeat myself again in this thread.
If you made it this far you can surely read.
What I am saying I have clearly already said.
You don't have to re write it and try to spin it my words.
Just read the posts.

My position hasn't changed.
I advocate common sense. And being responsible for ones own action.

Do you advocate blaming others for the mistakes you knowingly an willingly ask and pay for?
Do you think you can sue people when you get exactly what you pay for?
Would you rather be spoon fed a cuddly watered down life?

 

[HawaiiVPR]

I think it's crazy for a shop to wrap coils for a customer. Not just subohms but any coil. I am personally NOT of the opinion that low ohms is dangerous - but, as a business owner, I wouldn't give a customer ANYTHING that they could potentially hurt themselves with and then blame me for. If a Protank head were to, for some odd reason, blow up then that's on Kanger. But if a shop builds a coil and anything goes wrong then they might be liable. Even if they are not, they still might have to spend $$$ to prove it in court.

California is the birthplace of the frivolous lawsuit so I can't believe the So Cal shops are building coils. Then again, I lived in So Cal for many years so I guess I can see how it happens . .lol (idiots). I could just see some poor, unsuspecting Newport Beach teenager (18, of course) dry burning his coil for 30 seconds and pressing it into his arm and then suing for the burn because there was no warning label that the coil could be hot.

Anyway . .crazy to build coils for somebody else. No real reason to expose yourself to that liability.

Imagine a gun store where employees willingly build hot rounds for new customers who want more velocity out of their first gun... No way, its never going to happen.

Yet, there are tons of B&M's where teens with little to no skill are building sub ohm coils to other teens with little to no intelligence...And so it begins with the ambulance chasers... One lawsuit in a town, then 10 lawsuits in a city, then 100 lawsuits per state and so on until Congressman Ben and Senator Dover decide to really make a mess of things.

I don't think a B&M should be held responsible if a consumer incorrectly assembles a mechanical and fries their face, or burns down their house. Stuff happens, you cant protect imbeciles from themselves, but as a B&M store owner, the moment you assemble a device and sell it as so, its your head on the chopping block, imbecile customer or not.