These people are going to kill themselves

[Sikko]

Whether that vape shop would be liable or not all it would take is a few law suits and they would be out of business.

Happened to Blitz, they make gas cans. People were setting themselves on fire because they were pouring gas out of the can onto an open flame. Sounds ridiculous that it would be their fault right? They still went out of business because of all the lawsuits.

Blitz USA Shuts Down, Lawsuit 'Abuse' Hammers Hometown

I think the vape shop would be on shakier ground as they are the ones that actually built the coil if there were a problem.

 

[Bad Ninja]

I

Whether that vape shop would be liable or not all it would take is a few law suits and they would be out of business.

Happened to Blitz, they make gas cans. People were setting themselves on fire because they were pouring gas out of the can onto an open flame. Sounds ridiculous that it would be their fault right? They still went out of business because of all the lawsuits.

Blitz USA Shuts Down, Lawsuit 'Abuse' Hammers Hometown

I think the vape shop would be on shakier ground as they are the ones that actually built the coil if there were a problem.

Or a lawsuit could set precedent for common sense and make people responsible for custom built rous thy they pay extra for the modification beyond the factory coil build.


Doesn't it make ya feel strange to argue for the deliberate irresponsibility of grown ups?

You would be Amazed how many People have told me this or Something Very Similar.

LOL

That's because they are correct.
22 years of daily experience with the educational system from k-12 and 3 universities in three states
Yeah, I'd say I'm pretty familiar with it.

 

[dwcraig1]

Does anyone have a copy of one of the disclaimers that the shops are using that they might post?

 

[Racehorse]

Ever wonder why older people seem smarter? It ain't just experience.
They received a much better basic education.

"We" had parents who paid attention to our progress and exploits at school, did homework with us, etc. They didn't expect somebody else to raise us, teach us how to apply ourselves, nor instill in us the value of education.

Learning is still available for anyone who wants to apply themselves. In 2014. There are children in the world who go to school on dirt floors and actually make something out of their lives, educationally and professionally. Their parents ensure that, and don't blame their children's failure on the teachers.

IMHO, we didn't "receive" a better education. We were held accountable by our parents to actively pursue it. If we slacked, our other priviledges disappeared pretty quickly

 

[Racehorse]

Many people who go to a B&M have the Mind Set the person who Sells them something will know something about it. And that a B&M shop would Never sell them something that could Blow Up in their Face.

Being Ignorance is sometimes not the same as being a Fool.

I agree.

if you are buying a vehicle (especially a performance vehicle) tires should be looked at by the buyer. Same applies to vaping, etc...

Perpetuating the idea that sellers are no longer "professional experts" in their field is equating them with the counter robot who hands you a hamburger thru the window at Wendy's.

I need a lazy boy recliner, a vehicle, or a heating/air solution for my home, I want a salesperson who knows their product. I am not a gear head nor an engineer. I know what I need to know in my own field......I can't know everything about every other field.

That doesn't imply deficiency. Because in what was formerly known as the *ethical business environment*, the customer could expect to receive knowledgeable advice when making a purchasing decision.

If there are vaping stores who operate with such little regard for others, then not only do they hurt our reputation, but they are complicit enablers who may very well be lending a hand in a fellow vaper getting injured.

Nobody wants the industry to look like a bunch of clowns, esp. those in this biz who have worked hard to make the industry both professional and ethical.

(I wish people who don't care would just go start their own colony somewhere......they deserve to be together. Vapers who say "I don't care if some idiot blows his face off" are no different than what some of these businesses. It's like looking at a coin where both sides are identical. They deserve each other........... but not everyone else does.)

 

[Mutescream]

Ya the educational system is broken.
I have a gifted son and we have to home school him.
The state would have him slow down so the rest of the class can catch up.
He's 9 and finishing 5th grade this year.

Teachers don't teach any more.
Principals are more concerned with money than education.

The dumbing down of the American people is why we are so screwed up right now.
They are to uneducated to see the bs being fed to them.

"In our dreams, we have limitless resources and the people yield themselves with perfect docility to our molding hands. The present education conventions fade from their minds, and unhampered by tradition, we work our own good will upon a grateful and responsive rural folk. We shall not try to make these people or any of their children into philosophers or men of learning, or men of science. We have not to raise up from among them authors, editors, poets or men of letters. We shall not search for embryo great artists, painters, musicians nor lawyers, doctors, preachers, politicians, statesmen, of whom we have an ample supply…The task we set before ourselves is very simple as well as a very beautiful one, to train these people as we find them to a perfectly ideal life just where they are. So we will organize our children and teach them to do in a perfect way the things their fathers and mothers are doing in an imperfect way, in the homes, in the shops and on the farm." - General Education Board, Occasional Papers, No. 1 (General Education Board, New York, 1913) p. 6​

It's been a process to become this way, for a very long time.

 

[Ed_C]

Lots of different opinions. From my point of view, if you find plans to build a pipe bomb on the internet, build it without any more research and then blow your hand off, well maybe that's on you. On the other hand if you are new to vaping and you go into a store and say you have seen people blowing these big clouds and you would like to do the same, I think the store has some responsibility to inform you of what's involved. We all use countless battery powered consumer products everyday. For the most part, these devices are safe and very few of us have had any battery related incidents. To go into a store and assume that the devices that they are selling have the same level of safety as a D cell flashlight is not an unreasonable thing to assume, even if it's not correct and doesn't make that person an idiot, deserving of having their face or hand burned. It just makes them uninformed. I think every store has the ethical responsibility to, at least, ask their customers who are buying potentially unsafe components, if they are aware of the battery safety issues that are involved with these products.

 

[Ed_C]

"We" had parents who paid attention to our progress and exploits at school, did homework with us, etc. They didn't expect somebody else to raise us, teach us how to apply ourselves, nor instill in us the value of education.

Learning is still available for anyone who wants to apply themselves. In 2014. There are children in the world who go to school on dirt floors and actually make something out of their lives, educationally and professionally. Their parents ensure that, and don't blame their children's failure on the teachers.

IMHO, we didn't "receive" a better education. We were held accountable by our parents to actively pursue it. If we slacked, our other priviledges disappeared pretty quickly

Thanks for that. I just changed careers and got my teaching license. My wife is a teacher of 25 years and most of her family is in education. While I agree there's issues with education that could certainly be improved, it's not all about the schools. To make a blanket statement that "teachers don't teach" is really insulting. While granted, not all teachers do the job that they should, most that I know work very hard to teach their students.

 

[zoiDman]

...

That's because they are correct.
22 years of daily experience with the educational system from k-12 and 3 universities in three states
Yeah, I'd say I'm pretty familiar with it.

Granted, you had 22 Years of Experience as the Parent of a Student, but how much Experience have you had Standing in Front of a Class Teaching a Class or dealing with those "Over Paid" Administrators in a Employee/Employer relationship?

 

[zoiDman]

Thanks for that. I just changed careers and got my teaching license. My wife is a teacher of 25 years and most of her family is in education. While I agree there's issues with education that could certainly be improved, it's not all about the schools. To make a blanket statement that "teachers don't teach" is really insulting. While granted, not all teachers do the job that they should, most that I know work very hard to teach their students.

I also come from a Family of Educators. And Taught on the Community College and University Level for 37 Semesters.

Instruction can be Extremely Rewarding. It can Also be Frustrating at times. But I'm Not Sure if there is a Job that Isn't frustrating sometimes. But I never found one that was More Rewarding.

 

[Bad Ninja]

I agree.



Perpetuating the idea that sellers are no longer "professional experts" in their field is equating them with the counter robot who hands you a hamburger thru the window at Wendy's.

I need a lazy boy recliner, a vehicle, or a heating/air solution for my home, I want a salesperson who knows their product. I am not a gear head nor an engineer. I know what I need to know in my own field......I can't know everything about every other field.

That doesn't imply deficiency. Because in what was formerly known as the *ethical business environment*, the customer could expect to receive knowledgeable advice when making a purchasing decision.

If there are vaping stores who operate with such little regard for others, then not only do they hurt our reputation, but they are complicit enablers who may very well be lending a hand in a fellow vaper getting injured.

Nobody wants the industry to look like a bunch of clowns, esp. those in this biz who have worked hard to make the industry both professional and ethical.

(I wish people who don't care would just go start their own colony somewhere......they deserve to be together. Vapers who say "I don't care if some idiot blows his face off" are no different than what some of these businesses. It's like looking at a coin where both sides are identical. They deserve each other........... but not everyone else does.)

I didn't say I didn't care, I said its not my responsibility to protect them from themselves.

At what point did you decide to let the salesperson ( who is paid to sell, not teach) becomes responsible for your safety?
Maybe he assumes you are smart enough to know what you are buying.

No matter how you try to spin it, you are responsible for your choices.
And you all know better.
Don't be lazy. Stop blaming others for your own mistakes.

 

[Ed_C]

At what point did you decide to let the salesperson ( who is paid to sell, not teach) becomes responsible for your safety?
Maybe he assumes you are smart enough to know what you are buying.

When the product that he sells is one that a reasonable, but uninformed, person might easily assume is relativity safe. I try to learn what I don't know, but when I don't know what I don't know, well then, I guess I'll hope for the kindness of strangers.

 

[Jay-dub]

There's something similar I've been fighting for years in the motorcycling community.

Current run of the mill sport bikes have performance which exceed that of the fastest competition machines of a couple of decades ago. We're talking under 400 pounds and well in excess of 175 horsepower. In the wrong hands, or with improper or unskilled control inputs they're just flat out dangerous, and all too often lethal.

Yet every day absolute beginners go out and buy these machines with the admonishment that if they "respect the throttle" it's a fine beginner bike.

Yeah, not so much...

Education is the only answer. People don't know what they don't know in too many cases. Sadly, what you don't know can seriously injure or kill you.

LOL! Reminds me of my first bike. A 400cc Yamaha scooter around 460lbs dry. I had no riding experience and no "M" class endorsement on the very license the dealership made a copy of for their records. My ride home was through one of the busier parts of the metro and I took a few turns wide but I made it home okay. Ten years and two scooters later I'm still riding. I was pretty stupid.

 

[sawtoothscream]

a guy from the vape shop here use to build coils for my brothers friend. he was running a .3 coil on the batteries that came with his k 100.

His battery I guess started to go and he had to throw his mod in a cooler. After that he finally listened to me and bought teh proper batteries for his builds.

 

[LDS714]

I also come from a Family of Educators. And Taught on the Community College and University Level for 37 Semesters.

Instruction can be Extremely Rewarding. It can Also be Frustrating at times. But I'm Not Sure if there is a Job that Isn't frustrating sometimes. But I never found one that was More Rewarding.

Just out of curiosity, how many instances were there in your classes where the students could potentially kill themselves, classmates or you if they didn't understand and immediately apply what they were being taught?

I've been teaching motorcycle safety classes for a little over 12 years, and IMHO if the same principles were applied in regular classrooms the results would be much better. We can't just "push someone through" because they're there. If they're not getting it, they have to either show marked immediate improvement or they're gone. FWIW, the dropout and rejection rate in my classes is about 10% of the national average.

If you think a class of 30 or 40 with pen, paper and laptop is scary, try a dozen or so all on motorcycles (at the same time) for the first time in their life.

 

[LDS714]

Or a lawsuit could set precedent for common sense and make people responsible for custom built rous thy they pay extra for the modification beyond the factory coil build.


Doesn't it make ya feel strange to argue for the deliberate irresponsibility of grown ups?.

As in encouraging lawsuits?

 

[zoiDman]

Just out of curiosity, how many instances were there in your classes where the students could potentially kill themselves, classmates or you if they didn't understand and immediately apply what they were being taught?

I've been teaching motorcycle safety classes for a little over 12 years, and IMHO if the same principles were applied in regular classrooms the results would be much better. We can't just "push someone through" because they're there. If they're not getting it, they have to either show marked immediate improvement or they're gone. FWIW, the dropout and rejection rate in my classes is about 10% of the national average.

If you think a class of 30 or 40 with pen, paper and laptop is scary, try a dozen or so all on motorcycles (at the same time) for the first time in their life.

I taught a Lot of Math. As well as Metallurgy and CAD/CAM.

Not much Chance of Someone Killing themselves if they Couldn't integrate an Integral or find a Solution Set to a System of Equations. LOL

What I would like to see on the HS Level is more what you see in College. And that is a Student not being able to take a Higher Level Class until He/She can pass a Lower one.

 

[Jay-dub]

I

Or a lawsuit could set precedent for common sense and make people responsible for custom built rous thy they pay extra for the modification beyond the factory coil build.


Doesn't it make ya feel strange to argue for the deliberate irresponsibility of grown ups?

How do you feel since you've been arguing for the deliberate irresponsibility of a "grown up" shop keep providing dangerous materials to someone woefully unqualified?

That's because they are correct.
22 years of daily experience with the educational system from k-12 and 3 universities in three states
Yeah, I'd say I'm pretty familiar with it.

Honestly, your pompous air and callus disregard is appalling. You almost seem to be routing for the deaths of people you deem ignorant.
Either you actually have the empathy of a sociopath or you're trolling.

 

[Ed_C]

Just out of curiosity, how many instances were there in your classes where the students could potentially kill themselves, classmates or you if they didn't understand and immediately apply what they were being taught?

I've been teaching motorcycle safety classes for a little over 12 years, and IMHO if the same principles were applied in regular classrooms the results would be much better. We can't just "push someone through" because they're there. If they're not getting it, they have to either show marked immediate improvement or they're gone. FWIW, the dropout and rejection rate in my classes is about 10% of the national average.

If you think a class of 30 or 40 with pen, paper and laptop is scary, try a dozen or so all on motorcycles (at the same time) for the first time in their life.

I know this wasn't addressed to me, but to give you my anyway. I don't think many teachers are in favor of just moving students ahead if they don't deserve it. That being said, It's not easy to fail a student in secondary education, so I'm sure some kids just get moved forward that might have benefited from "trying it again." I'm not sure you can really compare what you do with public education. You are free to kick students out if they don't measure up. In pubic education teachers must educate everyone. Many teachers work in inclusive classrooms where there's SPED kids, ESL kids and everyone else mixed together. I'm not making excuses, as I agree there's room for improvement in the US education system, but many of the countries that rank above us in education do so, in part, because they only educate their brightest children. As was stated earlier, part of the problem is parental support. I hear over and over from parents that blame the teacher for Johnny's D, when little Johnny only turned in 10% of his work. Some students just can't comprehend the causal relationship between work turned in and grade awarded. Some parents seem to have an issue with this as well.

 

[Jay-dub]

Whether that vape shop would be liable or not all it would take is a few law suits and they would be out of business.

Happened to Blitz, they make gas cans. People were setting themselves on fire because they were pouring gas out of the can onto an open flame. Sounds ridiculous that it would be their fault right? They still went out of business because of all the lawsuits.

Blitz USA Shuts Down, Lawsuit 'Abuse' Hammers Hometown

I think the vape shop would be on shakier ground as they are the ones that actually built the coil if there were a problem.

Looks like there may or not be more to the story - depending on the source. Protect Consumer Justice.

Hey, at least both the sites have an "about us":
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