They're Coming After Flavors - ALA Docket to FDA

[Blueser]

Unbelievable....well not really...

http://www.lung.org/get-involved/advocate/advocacy-documents/comments-to-the-fda-re.pdf

However, if FDA does not require these products to be removed from the marketplace, recognizing the established and troubling public health consequences of e-cigarette use (during what should only be a
12 month waiting period from the date of the final rule), FDA should make clear what standards apply for pre-market review of e-cigarettes. These standards should include, but not be limited to:

1. Childproof containers for e-cigarettes, including disposables, e-liquids, and other refillable
devices
2. No toxins in e-liquids other than nicotine
3. No carcinogens or harmful or potentially harmful constituents
4. No flavors

Flavored Tobacco Products
The American Lung Association was deeply disappointed to see that FDA stated it did not have sufficient evidence to include the elimination of candy, fruit and other non-nicotine flavored products in its proposed deeming regulation. The evidentiary record on why the industry manufacturers and markets flavored tobacco products is well-established, which is one of the reasons Congress required the elimination of almost all cigarettes with characterizing flavors within three months of the passage of the Tobacco Control Act in 2009.14,15

The American Lung Association calls on FDA to move forward with product standards to remove from the marketplace any product currently regulated by FDA with a characterizing flavor other than tobacco.
The Lung Association urges FDA to use its enforcement discretion to ensure the removal of flavors from newly deemed products, including e-cigarettes (see Section XI – Enforcement Discretion) which studies estimate have 7,700 flavors,16 as well as hookah. Please refer to Appendix N for examples of blatant marketing to children using candy – and fruit – flavored products.

 

[Crunktanium]

So in summery it's time to tell the American Lung Association to go ...... itself. If charity groups are going to become a lobby for private interests (drug companies) they need to have their tax exemption privilege removed. I for one am pretty sick of all these lobby groups in sheep's clothing pretending to give a damn about we the people. I no longer trust any charity since they all seem to mismanage money and pay fat cat execs to keep them profitable.

It should be pretty obvious why the ALA wants to make Ecigs obsolete considering they run their own stop smoking business. The price is $5/month to access mere information on how to actually quit smoking by use of drugs. "Freedom From Smoking® was ranked the most effective smoking cessation program in a study by Fordham University Graduate School of Business." But it should seem obvious what the real goal is with the mention of "cessation medications" in the marketing literature. So it's no wonder they want to ban ecigs so companies like Pfizer the makers of Chantix can reap greater profits which in turn some of which funnels into doctors pockets too.

Ranked most effective smoking cessation program in a study of 100 managed care organizations conducted by Fordham University Graduate School of Business

Generates higher quit rates than for people who try to quit on their own; 25% of participants report not smoking one year after the program ends, while only 5% of people who quit cold turkey remain non-smokers after one year

When the program is used in combination with smoking cessation medications, up to 60% of participants report having quit by the end of the program

Yeep Pfizer is all over this one folks. American Lung Association - Donate

 

[Exchaner]

American Lung Association, A Charity?

 

[Boletus]

Translation: You guys are having way to much fun, and actually enjoying your alternative to smoking. You are supposed to suffer and be miserable, so that you will come begging to people like us for help, no matter how many times you try to quit. We built an industry around your misery, and we are not going to let it collapse just because something that actually works has been created.

 

[JohnnyDill]

The flavorings need to be re-labeled as something other than e-cigarette products.

Like when loose cig tobacco was being taxed......... It was re-branded as PIPE tobacco to avoid the tax & price increase. {state of Michigan, at least}

 

[Boletus]

The flavorings need to be re-labeled as something other than e-cigarette products.

Like when loose cig tobacco was being taxed......... It was re-branded as PIPE tobacco to avoid the tax & price increase. {state of Michigan, at least}

In and of itself, prohibiting products from specifically being advertised/listed as e-juice flavoring or flavored e-juice is certainly not an insurmountable obstacle for DIY-ers, as long as unflavored nic base can be obtained at desired concentrations. We can get VG and PG, and we can even create home flavorings if we need to, and there is plenty of stuff out there that is used for other things beside e-juice, so there will always be flavorings of some sort available. The only real question for us is access to nic base. If that becomes impossible or prohibitively expensive to get..., well I just don't feel like discussing that right now.

But then there are all of the people that don't DIY. Does anyone have an idea what percent of vapers actually bother to make their own juice? The others would be forced to make do with unflavored and/or a few specifically formulated flavors that are supposed to "make it taste like tobacco."

But then maybe there will not even be unflavored juice, and you actually have to buy it with one of the approved flavors already added to the nic. I'm sure every DYI-er shudders at the thought of that. Then ECF would have to add several subforums and a billion stickies about how to remove the mandatory flavorings. OK, that was just a nightmare, I hope.

 

[HDMontana]

I would have to get a bigger freezer for the nicotine juice and take out a loan to fill it.

 

[Crunktanium]

American Lung Association, A Charity?

Not really it calls itself a charity but is obviously a stealth lobby group.

By supporting the American Lung Association you are helping us fight for all those affected by lung disease. Your financial contribution supports research, program development, public policy, and sharing up-to-date information on respiratory illnesses; their treatment and management. Your donation is fully tax-deductible.

 

[Kemosabe]

The flavorings need to be re-labeled as something other than e-cigarette products.

Like when loose cig tobacco was being taxed......... It was re-branded as PIPE tobacco to avoid the tax & price increase. {state of Michigan, at least}

exactly. thats what i was thinking ejuice companies should do. they could advise their customers to stock up on nic, then sell 0mg liquid for a shake-n-vape solution. the 0mg liquid could be sold as an aromatic, packaged with a cheap version of one of these things. or just simply have those things for sale on the site.

but the flavoring companies, they could just keep the label they had since before people were using them for vaping. i seem to recall TFA for example not ever mentioning vaping on their site. as far as i recall, they simply state their flavors are for food- candy, baking, stuff like that. i dont think theyve ever said to vape em or that you can vape with them. they should be safe. hopefully anyway. theyre a viable company who has been around before vaping. i expect the same from other companies.

its simply the nic we'd have to worry about IMO. and MFS has liters on sale for $50. i know i got mine. i should be good for several years. after that, who knows but it buys me some time to allow for reform or new solutions by us crafty and persistent vapers.

 

[HDMontana]

On the Capella site, the have at the top, all the uses for their flavorings and end it with e juice. Take the e juice out of the description and you just have a food and beverage flavoring. We all already know how it can be used.

 

[Crunktanium]

On the Capella site, the have at the top, all the uses for their flavorings and end it with e juice.

There is much more hidden in the HTML source which they added for SEO purposes. If they want the vaping industry to keep them swimming in money then they need to help fight off this nonsense. These flavoring manufacturers make a pretty penny from us so the least they can do is help themselves which in turn helps us to continue buying from them.

 

[williebb123]

i have thought from day one that once the FDA gets their foot in the door with their regulation ejuice will be next and we will be stuck with only prefilled carto's

 

[Soignee]

The flavorings need to be re-labeled as something other than e-cigarette products.

Like when loose cig tobacco was being taxed......... It was re-branded as PIPE tobacco to avoid the tax & price increase. {state of Michigan, at least}

I've been using flavor extracts professionally in kitchens for years. You can call them whatever you want. The FDA is not going to eliminate flavor extracts. It may try and regulate their use for e cigarettes, but they cannot tell me I can't purchase Apricot extract for my cakes or Bacon flavor for my waffles. I'm sorry but there are thousands of vendors for flavoring products and the government is not going to try and shut down a substantial subset of the Food and Beverage industry.

Vapers can always go to the wholesale level (a co-op sounds perfect for this) and buy a kilo of ANY flavor out there as a powder (like most flavor companies do) and then produce their own PG or VG based flavor liquid. When I first started to DIY I looked at trying to buy from the source either as powder or as a chemical (artificial flavor) to have the most control over my flavor. What am I gonna do with a kilo of Strawberry flavor that will last me 20 years? So I have gone the more manageable route with much smaller quantities as everyone else dose. Here's a couple of links that I found leftover in my bookmarks, but there are many more if you use your Google-Fu. Carmi Flavors > Home, Food Flavors - Colors - Extracts - Gold Coast Ingredients.

I really believe that Nic is where they will try and hurt us and make it a controlled substance...sad but stock up now.

 

[JDCJDC]

Translation: You guys are having way to much fun, and actually enjoying your alternative to smoking. You are supposed to suffer and be miserable, so that you will come begging to people like us for help, no matter how many times you try to quit. We built an industry around your misery, and we are not going to let it collapse just because something that actually works has been created.

Hahahah!!!!! Ain't that the truth.

 

[Flt Simulation]

My crystal ball says that even if the gov. makes it difficult to buy e-liquid flavorings from companies here in the US, we will still be able to get them from China.

Sometimes the 'black market' is a wonderful thing

 

[Clappingwithonehand]

Mio for vaping- Squirt-n-go!

 

[DenaInWyo]

This all just really makes me glad I finally took the DIY plunge. I'm looking at my once a month nic purchase as a serious investment. While I wouldn't put anything past the FDA, I really do not see how they can ban flavorings considering their "normal" uses, and the same goes for PG/VG. And organic cotton balls. And Kanthal wire. The only thing I don't have covered is a source for a mod; the ones I have will wear out eventually. There will be ways around that too, no doubt.

I sold my first two 30 mL bottles of ejuice this evening and have two more waiting for another friend when I see her next. I have an empty chest freezer and the means to buy another. And another.

Hey FDA? Bring it.

I sincerely hope it doesn't have to be that way, but the tragedy of the government taking away something that could save thousands upon thousands of lives someday (and honestly, over time, that really isn't an exageration), possibly even make smoking cigarettes extinct, just really pisses me off.

 

[Nuggit]

Unfortnatly, the govt has the experience to create a black market that we van work with while employing lots of drones to fine people and put them in jail to benefit their economic nitch. The recent shooting of innocent civilians isn't going to pay off as well ad this. Think about lessons learned from proabition, and the gov't position with the drug "war". We'll be the new awful crininals nex. Sad. We outnumber them too, sad, evil wins unless we sink to their level. We just don't know how, or we'd be them! LoL

 

[roosterado]

The flavorings need to be re-labeled as something other than e-cigarette products.

Like when loose cig tobacco was being taxed......... It was re-branded as PIPE tobacco to avoid the tax & price increase. {state of Michigan, at least}

Same here in Minnesota about 7 yrs ago a pound of loose cigarette tobacco went from $20 to $40 - within a month it was relabeled Pipe tobacco and went back down to $20 a lb about where it was at 6 months ago when I was still using it. States are working on ways to fix that loophole. I think that is something the 29 attorneys general included in their letter to the FDA requesting tighter restriction on electronic cigarettes and premium cigars. At least that's how I read a section of their letter

One state proposal I read was to require tobacco shops to have large cigarette filling machines. A customer's purchase of loose pipe tobacco and empty filter tubes would have to be made with the machine in store and charged the regular cigarette tax>

 

[zapped]

Its precisely these different flavors that have allowed me to quit and to be successful for this long. After almost two years, Ive completely lost my taste for anything tobacco and lets be honest here its an acquired taste facilitated by an addiction for most of us...much like the taste of beer or scotch. I know there are aficionados of each but most of us thought they were nasty the first time we tried them.

I would quit vaping altogether if I had to go back to tobacco or menthol flavors.Even the thought of vaping them makes me shudder.Without vaping, the chances of my going back to smoking, even as foul as that is, goes up exponentially.

The only time I have EVER thrown away juice was when I ran out while waiting on vape mail from a supplier. I had some tobacco flavor I had gotten in a trade and it was absolutely unvapeable for me.It even made me vomit.

I went to bed extremely early that night and thankfully got my strawberry yogurt flavor in the next morning and promptly dumped out the entire 6ml tank of tobacco.

These flavors are NOT aimed at kids.I am 44 years old and they have been integral to my success at quitting by offering tastes and options that are unavailable in cigarettes.