Thinking about TC Mod
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nothing to add as I have not used TC yet but I just won one so I will watch this thread. thanks for posting it.
I'm pretty new to it myself but as I understand it, it controls the temperature of your coil by measuring changes in the resistance. By controlling the temperature it adjusts the power applied to your coil so as soon as you fire it you are getting the watts (or joules) you set on the mod. Once it reaches the temperature you set it to, it stops pushing that power and starts backing off. It is really beneficial when using RDAs to prevent dry or burnt hits (most YouTube reviewers will do the dry cotton test to see if a mod is working - they fire it with freshly wicked unjuiced cotton and if the cotton doesn't burn the temp control is working). I don't get dry hits anymore but I notice my vape getting weaker and weaker - clouds and flavor diminish. Then I re drip and it goes back to normal vaping like we are used to. The main draw is no more dry hits, but if you are a tank user and don't use RDAs I would just wait for the market to innovate some more before going for it. The main con I have noticed is using Nickel to make coils - the resistance is super low so you need lots of wraps and the stuff is like putty it's so flimsy it is harder to work with than Kanthal but there are some good YouTube videos on how to use a machine screw to wrap them. If you are a dripper or into cloud chasing then I would say give it a go. I'm really glad I got into it. Not an expert in it but that is how I see it - GrimmGreen just did a video All About Temp Control, it's worth a watch that's what I did before I jumped in.
Yeah, Cheese pretty much summed it up.
I've owned three DNA 40 mods and sold them all. I never really cared about TC and didn't like the mod shutting off in the middle of a hit. I still use regulated (and unregulated) boxes - just keep my cotton wet and rarely get any dry hits.
Unless something changes dramatically regarding temp control, I'll never waste my money on another (yeah, I know, it's a bold statement).
Currently, TC is an over-rated gimmick, but that's just one user's opinion.
I've owned three DNA 40 mods and sold them all. I never really cared about TC and didn't like the mod shutting off in the middle of a hit. I still use regulated (and unregulated) boxes - just keep my cotton wet and rarely get any dry hits.
Unless something changes dramatically regarding temp control, I'll never waste my money on another (yeah, I know, it's a bold statement).
Currently, TC is an over-rated gimmick, but that's just one user's opinion.
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Just want to add that you should still at least try a temp control mod. Prices are dropping and you can get a great deal on a Hana or Vaporshark in the classified section of the forum. I've seen a few Hana DNA 40 mods for right around a hundred bucks and Vaporsharks for well under $100.
You won't really be able to determine if temp control suits your style of vaping unless you try it out.
You won't really be able to determine if temp control suits your style of vaping unless you try it out.
LOL DNA 40! yea. those are the days when I just vaped at 40 watts!
Nah man, 40 is like sucking air to me.... haha
but yea, they got a smok cube 2 for like 80$ on FT
Or try a istick 40w TC, super cheap and if TC ain't your thing then you have beater backup.
I just got an IPV D2 and its pretty bad ... so far, surprisingly small and powerful as well.
Update
Ended up putting a preorder on a Black Smok x cube II
We'll see how it works outI guess. thanks for the help guys
Ended up putting a preorder on a Black Smok x cube II
We'll see how it works outI guess. thanks for the help guys
Was gifted the XCube 2 yesterday, myself. I have to say, I'm loving the hell out of mine. Haven't even gotten into TC yet, but I'm also moving up from an iStick 50w. Probably gonna pick up some Ni200 tomorrow and start getting my feet wet. The added precision alone is worth it for me. I get a much more stable, cleaner vape and it's far more easy to avoid dry hits and find the sweet spot for a given coil. Gonna pick up a nice wrap from JWraps in the future, I think. The stainless is going to show scratches easy and that will tweak my OCD like mad. Lol, there ya go... my one complaint, and it's cosmetic. That said, I love stainless otherwise.
Ok,here's the rub: TC may not get you anything you don't already have.
In the days of tiny coils, juice channels and power your vape was 'regulated' by how hard you hit on it and how much voltage or power you used. Overpower your wicking and you'll get burnt or dry hits. Over draw and you might of gotten more air than vape or (worse yet) a 'flooded coil'. It is/was a 'dance' we all did/do.
As each variable is given a larger range it can make it easier or harder to 'dial in' a balance of settings to get a decent (or perfect) vape.
Since vapor production is highly dependent on the temperature of the coil, TC is just another way of giving the user a method of controlling their vaping experience. It may not 'fix' any of the issues but rather is a different 'tool' to use.
(Disclaimer: currently I only use TC rigs to vape)
In the days of tiny coils, juice channels and power your vape was 'regulated' by how hard you hit on it and how much voltage or power you used. Overpower your wicking and you'll get burnt or dry hits. Over draw and you might of gotten more air than vape or (worse yet) a 'flooded coil'. It is/was a 'dance' we all did/do.
As each variable is given a larger range it can make it easier or harder to 'dial in' a balance of settings to get a decent (or perfect) vape.
Since vapor production is highly dependent on the temperature of the coil, TC is just another way of giving the user a method of controlling their vaping experience. It may not 'fix' any of the issues but rather is a different 'tool' to use.
(Disclaimer: currently I only use TC rigs to vape)
TC serves four functions, at least in my opinion:
1) Stopping dry hits. Set your temp to 400-475 and you can vape your coil almost totally dry without burnt hits. Cotton begins searing around 420F (cotton burn test everyone on YT does), but you can go a bit higher than that before it gives a really nasty flavor. With TC you can vape a wick totally dry and not taste burnt cotton. This is why it is especially good for dripping.
2) Avoiding formaldehyde and other nasties that form when you overheat PG/VG. Remember any substance can thermally degrade if you get it hot enough. It is well known that VG can degrade into acrolein (nasty stuff), formaldehyde and other carbonyl compounds (none of them good to inhale). The exact temperature this happens in our atomizers is a sort of a guess, but John from Evolv (guy who invented TC in mods) said formaldehyde forms in our attys between 430-450F (depending on a few variables like PG/VG ratio, coil setup, etc). I don't know where he got this number, but he may have done internal testing or has connections to other scientists (he is working on developing the official reference e-cig for the National Institute of Health through a government grant. Even though he works for Evolv, I am inclined to listen to his input on this subject and I feel he provides legit information). In any case, whether his numbers are correct or not, we know for a FACT that formaldehyde and other nasties will form if you get PG and/or VG hot enough. For health conscious vapers, TC is a way for them to try and minimize this. Perhaps with future research we will know a lot more about safe vaping temperatures (I am positive scientists are studying this very issue right now). However, the best we can do now is throw out a ballpark figure.
3) Flavor adjustment. Some juices may taste better at warmer or lower temps.
4) Consistency of the pull. When you take a drag off a TC mod, the pull is 100% consistent in flavor, temp, and saturation no matter how long you pull on it. Without TC, the end of the hit typically gets dry (at least in most tanks) and the temperature of the vape fluctuates dramatically depending on your draw. It's not consistent. TC solves that.
Downsides to TC:
1) It may be cooler than you like. I was never a super sub-ohmer, but I don't find anything under 475F satisfying. Really I am more accustomed to 500F+. Right now I am rocking 450F and trying to accustom myself to it. I think I can get used to it without much issue.
2) Most TC mods (except the DNA-200) do not allow you to use the full power of the mod in TC mode. For instance, the mod might do 100 watts in Kanthal mode, but only 50 watts in temp mode. I think this stems from a misconception that watts = temperature. It doesn't. You can design a coil that will take 100w and never go above 450F if you really want to. You don't have to sacrifice vapor production for lower temps (though you will have to build big coils).
I suggest buying a cheap TC mod. Tons of them to be had for anywhere from $40-$75. If you like it, then you can step it up and buy a DNA-200.
1) Stopping dry hits. Set your temp to 400-475 and you can vape your coil almost totally dry without burnt hits. Cotton begins searing around 420F (cotton burn test everyone on YT does), but you can go a bit higher than that before it gives a really nasty flavor. With TC you can vape a wick totally dry and not taste burnt cotton. This is why it is especially good for dripping.
2) Avoiding formaldehyde and other nasties that form when you overheat PG/VG. Remember any substance can thermally degrade if you get it hot enough. It is well known that VG can degrade into acrolein (nasty stuff), formaldehyde and other carbonyl compounds (none of them good to inhale). The exact temperature this happens in our atomizers is a sort of a guess, but John from Evolv (guy who invented TC in mods) said formaldehyde forms in our attys between 430-450F (depending on a few variables like PG/VG ratio, coil setup, etc). I don't know where he got this number, but he may have done internal testing or has connections to other scientists (he is working on developing the official reference e-cig for the National Institute of Health through a government grant. Even though he works for Evolv, I am inclined to listen to his input on this subject and I feel he provides legit information). In any case, whether his numbers are correct or not, we know for a FACT that formaldehyde and other nasties will form if you get PG and/or VG hot enough. For health conscious vapers, TC is a way for them to try and minimize this. Perhaps with future research we will know a lot more about safe vaping temperatures (I am positive scientists are studying this very issue right now). However, the best we can do now is throw out a ballpark figure.
3) Flavor adjustment. Some juices may taste better at warmer or lower temps.
4) Consistency of the pull. When you take a drag off a TC mod, the pull is 100% consistent in flavor, temp, and saturation no matter how long you pull on it. Without TC, the end of the hit typically gets dry (at least in most tanks) and the temperature of the vape fluctuates dramatically depending on your draw. It's not consistent. TC solves that.
Downsides to TC:
1) It may be cooler than you like. I was never a super sub-ohmer, but I don't find anything under 475F satisfying. Really I am more accustomed to 500F+. Right now I am rocking 450F and trying to accustom myself to it. I think I can get used to it without much issue.
2) Most TC mods (except the DNA-200) do not allow you to use the full power of the mod in TC mode. For instance, the mod might do 100 watts in Kanthal mode, but only 50 watts in temp mode. I think this stems from a misconception that watts = temperature. It doesn't. You can design a coil that will take 100w and never go above 450F if you really want to. You don't have to sacrifice vapor production for lower temps (though you will have to build big coils).
I suggest buying a cheap TC mod. Tons of them to be had for anywhere from $40-$75. If you like it, then you can step it up and buy a DNA-200.
Temperature has little to do with vapor production. Heat does, but heat is not the same thing as temperature.
Gee, lets "split hairs" ?? Temperature is a MEASUREMENT of how cold or warm something is.
I can heat a coil from 68F to 100F and get no vapor as I have to heat the juice film on the coil to the (wait for it) temperature that produces vapor.
Not enough heat, to low of a temperature and little or no vapor and to much heat and to high of a temperature and your juice might not only taste bad but you may overheat your coil+wick creating a 'dry wick' along with burnt dry hits.
Temperature has EVERYTHING to do with vapor production.
You're confusing temperature for heat (which is another word for energy). It's easy to see they aren't the same if you think about it for a minute.
Example: You have a cup of water and a swimming pool. Both are outside next to each other in the same environment. You stick a thermometer into the pool at it reads 80F. You do the same for the cup of water and it also reads 80F. Both have the same temperature.
Now you perform an experiment. You take your mod, take the tank (or top cap) off the atomizer and expose the bare coil. You pump it up to max power (say 100 watts). Next, you fire the coil and submerge it into the cup of water. When you do this, you are applying heat (energy) to that cup of water. Within a short while, the water will begin bubbling and evaporating. For the sake of argument, let's say this takes 1 minute. After that minute is up, you stop firing the atomizer. You then take out your thermometer and measure the temperature of the water and it reads somewhere around 212F.
Now, you stick your coil (at 100 watts) into the swimming pool. Like the cup of water, you let it sit there for 1 minute. Tell me, do you think after 1 minute of doing this that the swimming pool will be as hot (i.e have the same temperature) as the cup of water? After all, you applied the same amount of heat (energy) to both.
I think your confused or simply wishing to attempt entertain yourself. (and create some sort of argument)
Without a measurement of temperature "heat" is relative.
Simple fact: I could use 100KW of energy and if the temperature of the juice does not reach "vaping temperature" I won't have any vapor.
While we use power to heat and cool items, if your juice is to cold it won't vaporize and conversely if it is to hot it may taste burnt (or burn your mouth!).
Since I consider this is beyond silly, I'll bow out of any further "discussion".
It really gets to the physics of what's going on in our devices.
Heat is the total amount of energy. You heat something to a desired temperature.
If there was no difference, then you could just have a temp setting and no need for wattage or power. But, it's wattage that provides the heat.
Why does it matter? With a TC device, you must set both wattage and temp cutoff. For the makers of the chips, it's a big distinction.
Heat is the total amount of energy. You heat something to a desired temperature.
If there was no difference, then you could just have a temp setting and no need for wattage or power. But, it's wattage that provides the heat.
Why does it matter? With a TC device, you must set both wattage and temp cutoff. For the makers of the chips, it's a big distinction.
Temperature is the average measure of heat (or energy) in a system. In other words, heat is the total energy in a system. Temperature is the average of all the heat.
That's my point exactly. The amount of power (heat) you throw at it doesn't necessarily mean that you will have a high temperature. But if you throw 100KW at a smaller coil, you will burn it instantly. So, the amount of heat applied to reach a specific temperature will vary based on the build. A larger coil (say .1 ohm dual coil of 22 gauge) will produce more vapor at 450F than a single coil of 28 gauge at 450F.
My point is that more temperature does not mean more vapor. Yes, you need a minimum temperature to vaporize eliquid, but you can produce all the vapor you want while staying in "safe" temperature ranges. Indeed you can have one build that will reach a high temperature while producing less vapor than another build at a lower temp. Those old protank heads that burned all the time reached very high temps, but produced little vapor.
My only point here was to clear up confusion. You asserted that more temperature = more vapor. My only point was that this is not true at all. Yes, there is a minimum threshold needed, but above that, it depends on the build and not really the temperature.
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