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Tobacco Free - Synthetic Niocotine

Discussion in 'General Vaping Discussion' started by Tommy-Chi, Jun 29, 2016.

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  1. Tommy-Chi

    Tommy-Chi Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 9, 2015
    Chitown
    Wired Magazine story here.

    This is the lab that makes it: Next Generation Labs

    I contacted them through their website and will post whatever they send back my way. I asked them if they plan to go in to the DIY hobbyist arena.

    I wonder what the FDA would label them as? Manufacturer? Pharmaceutical Corp? Tobacco Corp?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  2. Tommy-Chi

    Tommy-Chi Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 9, 2015
    Chitown
    REPLY:

    Thank you for your interest in TFN™.

    We currently only sell pure TFN directly to ISO9001 certified manufacturing/filling facilities. In the near future we may make TFN Nicotine available in a 10% premix for the DIY Hobbyist. The eliquid brands that are currently using TFN™ Nicotine are, NKTR™, NKTR™ Sour, MELT™, DIGABLE™, SLAP Vapor™, SOUR Slap™, Liquid Soul, Peel, Ripe, Hold Fast, E-Generation. Vape shops and online retailers carry these brands. Please check our website in the next couple of months as we may have TFN in 10% available to purchase.

    TFN™ Nicotine “putting the flavor back in vaping

    Kind Regards,
    Vincent
    Next Generation Labs
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Tommy-Chi

    Tommy-Chi Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 9, 2015
    Chitown
    MY REPLY:

    Vincent,

    I'll check out what you have when you begin sales to hobbyists. I'm interested.

    I currently buy in 100mg/ml, 500ml glass bottles, sealed with Argon gas so that it is set up for long term storage. 10% would be 100mg/ml correct? Pure nicotine is 1000mg/ml.

    Thanks,
    Tommy
     
  4. Vandal

    Vandal Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 21, 2009
    Heart of Virginia
    I saw that article last night. Very interesting, and I'm wondering if they'll be able to reduce manufacturing costs over time. But as I read, I kept thinking, the FDA will find a way...
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. milandjikic

    milandjikic Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2014
    Edmonton, Canada
    I thought fda has stated any form of a liquid nicotine is treated as tobacco product...?

    Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk
     
    • Like Like x 2
  6. Tommy-Chi

    Tommy-Chi Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 9, 2015
    Chitown
    :thumbs:
     
  7. Tommy-Chi

    Tommy-Chi Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 9, 2015
    Chitown
    We shall see. This co thinks they are going to be in a market and be able to sell synthetic nicotine direct to market according to emails I rcvd. Of course the FDA has other plans.
     
  8. Truthdog

    Truthdog Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Jul 9, 2016
    Washington, DC
    I know one of the founders of NextGen labs, and I do believe that the FDA has no statutory authority when synthetic nicotine is used. Their authority here comes from the FSPTC Act which only allows them to regulate products made or derived from tobacco or their components when intended to be used with a tobacco product. I hope I'm right
     
    • Like Like x 3
  9. Mazinny

    Mazinny Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 25, 2013
    NY
    At first the FDA tried to regulate it as a drug. They went the tobacco route only after they lost the Sottera ( Njoy ) case. If they can't regulate synthetic nic as a tobacco product, they may try the drug route again.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Tommy-Chi

    Tommy-Chi Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 9, 2015
    Chitown
    Whatever move they are trying to make, I hope they make it soon. I'll buy as much as I can as long as it has been determined it is safe.
     
  11. Semiretired

    Semiretired Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Sep 24, 2011
    Middle Georgia
    I am just not sure I can jump on a synthetic product no matter what happens to the industry. Stocking up is my choice at this time...
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Just Me

    Just Me Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 4, 2010
    I guess I'm not figuring this exactly right, but if FDA considers 0mg juice as a tobacco product, I don't see how synthetic nicotine could escape that, considering it will be used in a vaping device, which is also a tobacco product (as of next month).
     
    • Like Like x 5
  13. Mazinny

    Mazinny Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 25, 2013
    NY
    It's not clear that the FDA can consider 0 mg a " tobacco product " under their own definition. Perhaps a "component" if they really stretch. I think it would be an interesting legal challenge. Here's what Azim Chowdhuri, lead attorney for the Industry Lawsuit against the FDA, had to say about this (min 43:45 to 46:40 )

     
  14. ZCAR1

    ZCAR1 Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 22, 2014
    San Antonio, TX, USA
    Recently received an email from Max Vaping:

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    25% off new tobacco free nicotine e-liquids in stock now. Try the latest craze in the v
    Tobacco Free Nicotine (TFN) is currently the highest quality nicotine on the market - 99.98% pure.
    Enjoy better flavor quality, pureness, and satisfaction without the tobacco effects. 25% off all TFN e-Liquids 7/8-7/15. Try it!

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The price (with the discount) is $16-17 per 30ml.
     
  15. Just Me

    Just Me Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 4, 2010
    @Mazinny "It's not clear" is what gives me pause. I'd rather be prepared than not.

    @ZCAR1, good luck and best wishes. Too expensive for me.
     
  16. Train2

    Train2 ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 11, 2013
    CA, USA
    Of COURSE you're right.

    Even with the FDA ("Ministry of Health" lol) demanding that liquid with NO NICOTINE be Labeled a "Tobacco Product" - that does not make it true. And clearly, synthetic Nic is in that same category - it is NOT A TOBACCO PRODUCT by any stretch of logic.

    It'll probably have to get proven in court. But seriously, how does their argument go?
    "Well, it's a tobacco product, despite not having anything to do with a tobacco plant because...um...because we want it that way so we can control it".



    Friggin' nutz.
    I hereby deem that everyone who cashes a paycheck issued by the FDA is a hamster.
    They shall all be given little wheels to run on, and some fluffy paper scraps on which to poop.
    What? You're NOT a hamster? Sorry - yes you are. It's been "Deemed".





     
    • Like Like x 3
  17. FlamingoTutu

    FlamingoTutu Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 5, 2013
    In the Mountains
    At about 49:40 they start talking about synthetic nicotine. Interesting discussion.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Mazinny

    Mazinny Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 25, 2013
    NY
    Yes, thank you ! I had forgotten that they talked about synthetic nicotine, i just remembered the zero nic part and searched for that.

    I don't believe that there is anyone involved in the vaper industry who knows even half of what Azim Chowdhuri does about FDA deeming regs or the FDA and it's inner workings in general. His entire practice involves food, drug and tobacco law, and FDA regulatory compliance. We have the right law firm on the case, if we are to have a shot of winning in court. I always make a point of listening to him when he talks on various podcasts. It's really refreshing to get an objective view of things, without hyperbole and personal opinions mixed in.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  19. Forkeh

    Forkeh Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 16, 2012
    California
    Fairly certain the FDA will come after that too. Whether they actually have the authority to deem it a tobacco product or not. The FDA don't play nice.

    Regardless of that, I'm not entirely sure that I'd be comfortable vaping a synthetic nicotine. I'd certainly want more information about the product.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. FlamingoTutu

    FlamingoTutu Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Aug 5, 2013
    In the Mountains
    I swear there was a section in the damning that said nic extracted from this, that, cow pies or synthetic was a tobacco product. Since I'll never be able to find it again, I was hoping one of the damning gurus would chime in. Maybe tomorrow.
     
    • Like Like x 1
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