Tobacco Free - Synthetic Niocotine

[Eskie]

Fairly certain the FDA will come after that too. Whether they actually have the authority to deem it a tobacco product or not. The FDA don't play nice.

Regardless of that, I'm not entirely sure that I'd be comfortable vaping a synthetic nicotine. I'd certainly want more information about the product.

Nicotine is still nicotine. As long as assays show it to be nicotine without any other chemicals present (other than the vehicle, PG or VG). Lots of stuff that started out as extractions from nature are now manufactured synthetically. True with almost every drug.

I haven't listened to that audio from the lead attorney, but even if synthetic nicotine could be used to prepare liquids after the 2 year cutoff, I'm not sure what you'd vape it in, as all the hardware will be considered "tobacco products" and no longer available (in the absence of an approved PMTA).

 

[Truthdog]

Azim, in this interview concludes that there needs to be a new law enacted to create new and fair regulations for vapor products. That may be the most important point. I don't accept this future, and so must change it!
This is a bill that SFATA and several other national vaping associations are working on. We'd like to change the predicate date first to save all current companies, stabilize the market, and allow tobacco harm reduction to continue. But we agree that separate regulations for vapor products are needed to escape the cruel and unusual tobacco regime.

 

[coolerat]

Wired Magazine story here.

This is the lab that makes it: Next Generation Labs

I contacted them through their website and will post whatever they send back my way. I asked them if they plan to go in to the DIY hobbyist arena.

I wonder what the FDA would label them as? Manufacturer? Pharmaceutical Corp? Tobacco Corp?

I can't say about the laws but I've used the joose.

Its gooooooooood!!!

In 6mg its satisfies my nic urges but is as smooth as 0nic.

Really lets the flavor shine through.

I don't buy much store bought joose but this stuff is legit.

I had Sour Dream.

 

[Forkeh]

Nicotine is still nicotine. As long as assays show it to be nicotine without any other chemicals present (other than the vehicle, PG or VG). Lots of stuff that started out as extractions from nature are now manufactured synthetically. True with almost every drug.

I haven't listened to that audio from the lead attorney, but even if synthetic nicotine could be used to prepare liquids after the 2 year cutoff, I'm not sure what you'd vape it in, as all the hardware will be considered "tobacco products" and no longer available (in the absence of an approved PMTA).

That's true, if the product is actually exactly the same. Call me skeptical, but I wouldn't be convinced until I see a lot more information about it. There's always the potential that the chemical they made is just a little bit different. Similar enough to be brain candy in the same say nicotine is, but different enough that it could have some unintended consequence.

This game has already been played with....some things we aren't allowed to talk about here. Synthetic. Minor alterations in the chemical make up to get around laws that make the substance it's based on illegal. Horrifying side effects.

That's what I'm worried about. Especially if to get around the FDA regulations, they have to alter the chemical a little bit. Minor changes in structure from a chemistry standpoint, can have a drastic effect on how a substance, nicotine in this case, affects the mind and body.

I ain't vaping no untested fakotine "not meant for human consumption". If, at some point in the future we have access to an affordable, synthetically made product that's actually nicotine, yes I would vape it. But I gotta know it is what they say it is.

 

[retired1]

If you purchase commercially made e-liquid, chances are, you've already had synthetic nicotine.

 

[tony46113]

but even if synthetic nicotine could be used to prepare liquids after the 2 year cutoff, I'm not sure what you'd vape it in, as all the hardware will be considered "tobacco products" and no longer available (in the absence of an approved PMTA).

Every piece of vaping related hardware being considered a "tobacco product" is really a non-issue. They are being considered a tobacco product by the FDA. The FDA has zero jurisdiction in the counties that most of the hardware is manufactured in.

 

[DC2]

If you purchase commercially made e-liquid, chances are, you've already had synthetic nicotine.

I don't understand this comment...
Could you tell us more?

 

[retired1]

There are already companies using TFN nicotine (synthetic).

Here's one of them. Guava NKTR TFN - tobacco free nicotine - Vaperev Shop

Here's the company that makes it.

Next Generation Labs

 

[DC2]

There are already companies using TFN nicotine (synthetic).

Here's one of them. Guava NKTR TFN - tobacco free nicotine - Vaperev Shop

Here's the company that makes it.

Next Generation Labs

Yes, I knew that, but I wasn't sure about the "chances are you've had it" part.
I would guess the odds to be less than 5% so I was confused.

I buy commercial liquid, and I have never heard of any of the brands using it.

Maybe those brands are a lot more popular than I figured?
:shrug:

 

[milandjikic]

I am probably wrong, but from what i have heard so far, purple coloured concentrated nicotine is all synthetic. Supposedly, only the yellow colored nicotine that haves "couple days warn socks" smell is really organic nicotine extracted from the plant. For example in EU nicotine that comes from Flavor Art haves slightly pink/purple colour, and couple people tokd me it's synthetic, not extracted from leaves. As i have said, i am unsure how truthfull is that, but i would say the chances are we are using synthetic nicotine for a while now without even being aware of it...

Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk

 

[sofarsogood]

There are already companies using TFN nicotine (synthetic).

Here's one of them. Guava NKTR TFN - tobacco free nicotine - Vaperev Shop

Here's the company that makes it.

Next Generation Labs

I followed the link to the product. It costs 73 cents per ml for 6mg nic. I use 10 mg and my cost for DIY is 1.2 cents per ml. I doubt they are moving much product. If synthetic nic costs 10 times as much, a 1 liter $50 bottle of 100 mg nic would cost $500. I use 10 mg of nic per ml at a cost of 1/2 cent per ml. 10 times that would be 5 cents per ml for the nic. Since I vape 7 ml per day the cost of the nic would go from 3.5 cents to 35 cents per day. All this assumes the price of synthetic nic concentrate is 10 times the cost.

At a retail price of 73 cents per ml for a 30 ml bottle the cost of synthetic nic is still a small fraction of the price but the price is outrageous to me since I can make 30 ml of juice for 36 cents total whild this premix costs $22.

I'm amazed DIY is such a hard sell.

 

[retired1]

It still remains to be seen if "natural" nicotine base will be available after 2 years. Synthetic may become the only game in town if things go as they currently are.

 

[sofarsogood]

It still remains to be seen if "natural" nicotine base will be available after 2 years. Synthetic may become the only game in town if things go as they currently are.

Nic will be available if you stockpile.

For me this about smokers trying to save their own lives, not about businesses or consumers.

 

[Belhade]

Hmm, after the whole Project Amal fiasco I'm not too keen on synthetics...

 

[DC2]

It still remains to be seen if "natural" nicotine base will be available after 2 years. Synthetic may become the only game in town if things go as they currently are.

Which Big Pharma brand of synthetic nicotine is your favorite?
(He asked in the future)

 

[Verb]

I am probably wrong, but from what i have heard so far, purple coloured concentrated nicotine is all synthetic. Supposedly, only the yellow colored nicotine that haves "couple days warn socks" smell is really organic nicotine extracted from the plant. For example in EU nicotine that comes from Flavor Art haves slightly pink/purple colour, and couple people tokd me it's synthetic, not extracted from leaves. As i have said, i am unsure how truthfull is that, but i would say the chances are we are using synthetic nicotine for a while now without even being aware of it...

Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk

The pink color is from a reaction that occurs when nicotine is kept in a nitrogen atmosphere.

From Carolina Xtractions FAQ:
CXTC mentions that different "push gases" have different affects on Nicotine. What "push gas" should we use?
1. 5.0 Argon- Argon does not seem to react with anything including nicotine. Argon is the preferred storage gas for all nicotine products, because it will not change any of the properties of Nicotine out to many years. Argon is quite expensive, as a push gas because it does not compress to liquid and commercially available Argon cylinders do not "pump" much product. If you need to store liquid nicotine for extended periods, argon is best. If you need to move nicotine, other gasses work just as well and go much further at much less cost.

2. Nitrogen-Nitrogen is interesting because it is a cost effective "push gas" with interesting side-reactions to nicotine. The primary long term reaction is that nitrogen will impart clarity to 100MG/ML nicotine, a positive, and with time will impart a pink hue, possibly a negative. The color change seems to occur mainly in the VG component of the solution, however CXTC has noted certain positive changes to the nicotine properties under long term exposure to nitrogen.

3. Food/Medical -Grade CO2- Long term exposure to CO2 will impart a "golden" tint to all brands of nicotine. CO2 is an excellent choice of push gas when the cylinder will be completely pushed out with twenty days as long as you keep that cylinder around 70F (room temperature) and release the tank pressure after each use. Beware! CO2 can carbonate the VG and PG in a 100MG nicotine solution, especially if store your tank at cold temperatures and under pressure.

 

[Verb]

Which Big Pharma brand of nicotine is your favorite?

Los Zetas, Sinaloa, or Juarez?

 

[Strangebrew]

Hmm, after the whole Project Amal fiasco I'm not too keen on synthetics...

I agree; yet I don't mine pouring it in my ride.

 

[milandjikic]

The pink color is from a reaction that occurs when nicotine is kept in a nitrogen atmosphere.

From Carolina Xtractions FAQ:
CXTC mentions that different "push gases" have different affects on Nicotine. What "push gas" should we use?
1. 5.0 Argon- Argon does not seem to react with anything including nicotine. Argon is the preferred storage gas for all nicotine products, because it will not change any of the properties of Nicotine out to many years. Argon is quite expensive, as a push gas because it does not compress to liquid and commercially available Argon cylinders do not "pump" much product. If you need to store liquid nicotine for extended periods, argon is best. If you need to move nicotine, other gasses work just as well and go much further at much less cost.

2. Nitrogen-Nitrogen is interesting because it is a cost effective "push gas" with interesting side-reactions to nicotine. The primary long term reaction is that nitrogen will impart clarity to 100MG/ML nicotine, a positive, and with time will impart a pink hue, possibly a negative. The color change seems to occur mainly in the VG component of the solution, however CXTC has noted certain positive changes to the nicotine properties under long term exposure to nitrogen.

3. Food/Medical -Grade CO2- Long term exposure to CO2 will impart a "golden" tint to all brands of nicotine. CO2 is an excellent choice of push gas when the cylinder will be completely pushed out with twenty days as long as you keep that cylinder around 70F (room temperature) and release the tank pressure after each use. Beware! CO2 can carbonate the VG and PG in a 100MG nicotine solution, especially if store your tank at cold temperatures and under pressure.

There we go, i know that sounded a bit unreal although not impossible Thanks for the detailed explanation