Totally Wicked: Deleting posts they don't like

[etip]

I just wanted others to be aware that if you post in the Totally Wicked subforum (under Supporting Suppliers), this subforum is moderated by TW. In other words, they can (and do) delete posts and entire threads that they do no not like.

So, if you have an issue and want to get their attention because they are not responding to your emails this may be a GOOD place to get their attention. However, if you are looking in that subforum to investigate others opinions of them be aware that you are NOT getting an entirely accurate picture. And also, if you want to share your experience (and that experience happens to portray them in a negative light), that may not be the best place to do so since they may delete it.

How do I know this? Well, apparently by posting a few relatively innocent comments in that forum - just voicing my opinion in response to how others were treated - I apparently crossed some line and now they have stated that ALL of my posts there will be deleted. I guess that is their right, but I don't feel that any of my comments were over the top or in any way deserving of this. In fact in on of my recent posts (deleted - but the response is still in the "Not-so-positive Experience with TW" thread) I clearly stated that I had placed two orders with them and had been entirely happy. I also did also state that I was avoiding them for larger orders because I had noticed enough of a trend (by reading posts from others) with their Customer Service department not being very responsive and/or rude. I was keeping an open mind and seeing how others were treated when they ran into difficulties with their order. Well, my mind is no longer open and I will never do business with them again.

I don't have a vendetta against TW and I know they have their ardent supporters here but I just wanted to share my experience and make others aware that they do censor their forum here. And for the record, it's not just my posts/threads that are being deleted.

I am placing all of my future orders with e-Smokey-Treats and/or Rocky Mountain Vapor. I have ordered from both a few times and have found them to be extremely helpful and pleasant to deal with in every way. Both have good prices, fast shipping, quality products/juices and excellent customer service.

 

[AnnaCoop]

Thanks for letting us know etip. I am a new vaper and I appreciate these threads so I can be more aware of the good/moderate/and bad suppliers.

 

[wrecktangle]

Someone is going to have a problem with anyone they order from. That's just the nature of retail. I'm sorry you had a bad experience with TW. But sometimes the way you initially handle a problem results in a negative response in return.

Pillbox (the TW CEO) has recognized problems with the USA site and is working dilligently to fix those problems. I don't think you can ask anything more. This does show he's interested in the problems and is going to do his best to solve them.

It's certainly your perogative to order (or not order) from anyone you wish. And it's certainly your perogative to comment on your experience with a vendor.

But, I feel, despite your comments to the contrary, that this post is to heap negative comments on TW. People can go the the vendors forum and see for themselves the good and bad experiences, there's really no need to cast aspersions on TW in other parts of this forum.

just my very humble opinion....

 

[Lissa G.]

People can go the the vendors forum and see for themselves the good and bad experiences, there's really no need to cast aspersions on TW in other parts of this forum.

just my very humble opinion....

Just curious, but if they are defending their right to delete any post they don't like, how is this possible? People should be allowed to post their thoughts on a company outside of the suppliers forum if they choose to, just as you have the right to defend them.

 

[mamu]

FYI etip and all new members - ALL supporting suppliers here at ECF moderate their own sub-forums and can delete posts/threads as they choose.

They also can treat their customers however they choose without being censored for it. As long as they follow the language rules here and don't write insulting/abusive posts, they can treat you however they choose.

Fortunately, there are only a few suppliers here at ECF who are like this. It's pretty obvious when you visit a supplier's sub-forum and see deleted posts and threads who to stay away from.

Because of this, it is wise that you selectively choose the good suppliers here that treat customers with respect and handle problematic issues without feeling the need to cover it up by deleting the post or thread.

 

[etip]

Someone is going to have a problem with anyone they order from. That's just the nature of retail.

I agree 100%. In fact, I think that's rather obvious.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with TW. But sometimes the way you initially handle a problem results in a negative response in return.

Again, agreed. I did not "have a bad experience" with them so much as I commented on others experiences with them. In fact, my own experience as far as ordering from them has been nothing but positive and I stated as much in a few of the deleted posts/threads.

Pillbox (the TW CEO) has recognized problems with the USA site and is working dilligently to fix those problems. I don't think you can ask anything more. This does show he's interested in the problems and is going to do his best to solve them.

You have questioned my motives, and now I question yours. You seem to know a lot about them. Perhaps you have relationship with them of some sort and and/or a vested interest? I have seen you quickly jump to their defense in other threads as well.

It's certainly your perogative to order (or not order) from anyone you wish. And it's certainly your perogative to comment on your experience with a vendor.

Ditto. I think it benefits all of us to share experiences with both positive and negative. I went into this into great detail in one of my deleted posts as well.

But, I feel, despite your comments to the contrary, that this post is to heap negative comments on TW..

Sorry you feel that way. There is no "heaping". Just sharing.

People can go the the vendors forum and see for themselves the good and bad experiences....

Ok, you are kind of missing the point here. Yes, there are some good and some bad experiences posted there. But there was at least one long thread of a mostly bad experience where several others chimed in and talked about their bad experiences - mostly regarding TW's CS department. That thread was deleted without explanation as were most of my posts in other threads there. That leads me to believe that other similar threads & posts were deleted. I was not aware that vendors forum was moderated by the vendors themselves and that they could delete posts and threads without explanation. Perhaps I should have been aware of this. I won't even go into whether or not I think that is appropriate or not - but I do think it's important for everyone to be AWARE that this is the case.

....,there's really no need to cast aspersions on TW in other parts of this forum.

.

No aspersions. Just facts. Exactly where would it be appropriate for me to post such things? I am not wasting anymore time posting in the vendors forum since my posts will just be deleted.

just my very humble opinion....

...and you are entitled to it!

 

[surbitonPete]

I think people should always be able to make comments good or bad about the service they get from any supplier without it being deleted but at the same time I think the suppliers would probably be doing themselves a favour by never responding to bad comments on the forum. It's far too easy for them to be human and loose their professionalism and say things they wish they hadn't said.

As to my own experience's so far with TW uk ...no complaints at all. perfectly Good service.

 

[etip]

I think people should always be able to make comments good or bad about the service they get from any supplier without it being deleted but at the same time I think the suppliers would be doing themselves a favour by never responding to bad comments on the forum. It's far too easy for them to be human and loose their professionalism and say things they wish they hadn't said.

Yep, I agree. In fact, in one my posts in the deleted thread (which basically turned into a discussion about customer service, setting expectations, handling customer complaints etc.) I offered the suggestion that the matter would have been better handled privately - perhaps with at quick post saying "sorry to hear about...blah, blah, blah....call me or email me directly and I will resolve this for you...etc."

 

[titanflyer]

I have had nothing but great service and products from TW myself... but if any vendor is going to be given the right to delete negative posts, then its just an advertising section isn't it, and maybe that is the point. I am not pointing out TW since I have positives only to say about their products and CS, but maybe the mods should institute a rule where threads that any of the vendors don't want in their subforums are moved to a complaints area. Again, not specifically TW here, but I just don't see it as fair to consumers that vendors are able to clean up their image by clicking a delete button.

Oh man, If it was only that easy in our own lives, I would do the same thing to some things I have said and done... delete.. gone... good guy again.

 

[kcr]

You have questioned my motives, and now I question yours. You seem to know a lot about them. Perhaps you have relationship with them of some sort and and/or a vested interest? I have seen you quickly jump to their defense in other threads as well.

Oh, for heaven's sake--calm down.

I am not affiliated with TW, except as a customer. I have never had a problem with them.

What I want to know is why people feel it is their unalienable right to pop off about a business--usually over something minor--and get all bent out of shape if their comments are removed.

Censorship? Oh, please! How about that strawman you just built?

Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they have a vested interest in the company.

 

[beckah54]

When I was a n00b, I often judged how good or bad a supplier was by reading the posts in the supplier's subforums to find good/bad experiences others had with the specific supplier. If they can delete posts at will, how can anyone get a feel for their customer service or products?
I don't think they should be allowed to delete posts or whole threads because someone had a bad experince with them and wanted resolution. That defeats the whole purpose of having their subforums here at all.
How are new vapers to judge where to get their supplies if we don't keep an honest record from those that have had problems? I'm confused on these issues as I'm sure are many n00bs.
JMHO

 

[Juggalo]

In the last 2 weeks I have heard nothing but bad things about TW so stay away till they decided they wanna have better customer service

it sucks i was gonna order a mod but I cant after what i read

 

[scott58]

I was a Quality Assurance manager for almost 20 years and things do happen. It should be expected that there will be problems from time to time. It's how the problems are handled that is important. I've only had 1 problem since I started this. I e-mailed the situation was e-mailed back in a timely fashion with instructions on correcting the problem. Great service in my book. So far I'm very happy with my 5 suppliers.

 

[wrecktangle]

Ok, for the record, I am in no way affiliated with TW (or any other vendor), other than as a very satisfied customer. They've made mistakes with my orders, I emailed them, they responded quickly, and more importantly, they made things right. Not only made it right, but compensated me for my trouble. That's why I'm a cheerleader for TW--their outstanding customer service.

I politely advised them of a problem, they respectfully replied back, and the problem was resolved with little or no fanfare.

I post all over this forum, on many different subjects, if I have something I feel contributes postively to the respective discussion. I see a poster come into my favorite vendor's forum and blast my favorite vendor. A poster, who by the way, only had 8 posts in the entire forum at the time. I'm very loyal to people who treat me right, and will defend them.

But, after rethinking this, and reading others replies, I have changed my mind about vendors deleting posts from their sub-forums. Instead of deleting (censoring, if you will), they would be better served if they would post how they will help the disgruntled customer.

 

[etip]

Ok, for the record, I am in no way affiliated with TW (or any other vendor), other than as a very satisfied customer. They've made mistakes with my orders, I emailed them, they responded quickly, and more importantly, they made things right. Not only made it right, but compensated me for my trouble. That's why I'm a cheerleader for TW--their outstanding customer service.

I politely advised them of a problem, they respectfully replied back, and the problem was resolved with little or no fanfare.

I post all over this forum, on many different subjects, if I have something I feel contributes postively to the respective discussion. I see a poster come into my favorite vendor's forum and blast my favorite vendor. A poster, who by the way, only had 8 posts in the entire forum at the time. I'm very loyal to people who treat me right, and will defend them.

But, after rethinking this, and reading others replies, I have changed my mind about vendors deleting posts from their sub-forums. Instead of deleting (censoring, if you will), they would be better served if they would post how they will help the disgruntled customer.

Wrecktangle:

My apologies for accusing of having an agenda. Your experience with TW is just as relevant as mine or others - particularly so, given that you have had a problem with an order AND had it resolved. As you stated in your previous post, problems are pretty much inevitable. It's how a vendor reacts when problems pop up that makes the difference in my mind. Perhaps that is why TW made a (positive in this case) impression on you.

I do want to say, however, that I don't think I "blasted" anyone in my comments over there in the TW vendor forum. Some of my comments are still visible in the thread over there via the responses - it's a shame that the others are not. That's one of the reasons I find this so frustrating is that some people just assume that if my posts were deleted - there must be a good reason for it. I am truly beginning to think that they have me mixed up with someone else and that's why they are deleting my posts.

 

[kcr]

I am truly beginning to think that they have me mixed up with someone else and that's why they are deleting my posts.

Why don't you pm Pillbox and ask if that is the case?

 

[wrecktangle]

etip, I apologize to you, if you took my comments as anything but respectful to you. I can definitely relate to bad experiences and how it leaves you feel.

I researched very carefully numerous vendors before deciding to purchase my first e-cig. I read the comments on this forum and others. I even emailed website contacts to see how they responded. I figured this would be a product that could very easily be conducive to fraud and deceit.

TW was one of the few that took the time to email back with some background info and suggestions. I made the plunge and have made several orders with them, and have not been disappointed. I guess I was a bit surprised that someone was treated differently than I.

I can only surmise that the recent problems with TW have something to do with their current 20% off sale. My guess would be that the US site is inundated with orders and staff there perhaps don't have the experience or facilities to handle the deluge of orders. But it looks like they're trying to remedy things (probably in part as a result of your complaint).

Anyhow, time to step off my soapbox and wish you luck in the vaping world. In my opinion, e-cigs are the greatest device ever made to get us away from those nasty analogs.

 

[etip]

Wow. Missed this unwarranted attack until just now. Please, allow me to retort....

Oh, for heaven's sake--calm down.

I am quite calm, actually. Seems as though you might be a little wound up however.

I am not affiliated with TW, except as a customer. I have never had a problem with them.

Good for you!

What I want to know is why people feel it is their unalienable right to pop off about a business--usually over something minor--and get all bent out of shape if their comments are removed.

Well, let me explain since I think you are referring to me...or people like me. I Yes, I think we should be able to share our positive and negative experiences with a business here. After all it is "The place for electronic cigarette reviews, news and chat". I wouldn't say it's an inalienable right, though - those are your own words. I do think it's wrong to have one's posts deleted without warning or explanation. Sadly, most of my posts are gone or you would be able to see that my comments were relatively benign and hardly deserving of permanent banishment from their forum. That said, under the current set-up (as someone else mentioned) - the vendors moderate their own forums and have every right to delete posts or threads as they please. I just wanted to make others aware of that - and yes, share my experience in a forum where my posts won't be deleted without cause.

Now, what *I* want to know is why people (you) jump to the defense of a vendor and accuse people (me) of "popping off" when you don't really know what you are talking about.

Censorship? Oh, please!

From Reference.com:

Censorship is the suppression of speech or deletion of communicative material which may be considered objectionable, harmful or sensitive, as determined by a censor.


Seems to fit, no?

How about that strawman you just built? Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they have a vested interest in the company.

I was merely responding/reacting to HIS accusation that my post was to "heap negative comments on TW". My guess that he had a vested interest in the company was based on several factors - not just that he "disagreed with me" (I had seen him very quickly jump to defend TW over in the Vendor forums on more than one occasion and he seemed to know quite a bit about the company - more than your average consumer would typically know). In any case, I was proven wrong on this and have apologized to Wrecktangle.

 

[TheLizinator]

I think this forum provides a valuable service as a place for buyers to state their experiences, both positive and negative. It gives consumers a fighting chance in a fledgling market that spawns fly-by-night suppliers hoping to launch a lucrative business without giving the kind of service that makes or breaks every merchant. Most of us are discriminating enough not to give credibility to the occasional complaint, but it is clearly a red flag when this forum is barraged with disgruntled customers not receiving basic customer service. I understand a supplier deleting negative feedback & complaints from their subforum, but it also gives the impression they have something to hide and I certainly take note of that. I also give my business to those who obviously have a loyal following of people who rave about customer service and excellent products. I appreciate having this forum to use as a tool in deciding where I take my business. I make it a point to post kudos from anyone who provides exceptional service/products but also exercise the freedom to register my dissatisfaction when a seller falls far short of reasonable expectations. If they are a part of this community they accept being held accountable for the way they do business. I also appreciate moderators who are alert to those who would create multiple IDs and post fake endorsements to boost their sales. Caveat emptor.

 

[kcr]

Websites that are owned or operated by businesses may set whatever standards they choose for postings that remain on their sites.

Every website I would go to has a Terms of Service which states they retain the right to edit or remove postings. They do not owe anyone a reason. It is their website. They allow people to use it, but they are in no way *required* to.

I am sorry if some people do not like that.

I look at it this way: I would not allow someone to come into my home or business and say or do things I do not approve of, and I have the right to remove them if they refuse. I do not have to allow anyone to insult me on my own property. Internet forums are not public property--they are owned by someone, and that someone has the right to set whatever rules they choose.

If someone wants to start a website where they and everyone else can say whatever they wish with impugnity, they are free to start their own websites.

Peace.